Stopped by police tonight ...

[Highlander]

I'm thinking a lot of these 'incidents' would be less of a problem if the 'guns' being stopped had a better attitude towards the police.

 

I'm no lover of ol' bill but on the occassions when they've 'turned up' I've never had a problem even with ones who haven't a clue about guns, the law and what we're doing. If you talk with them in the right way I've yet to find one who's responded badly and if you really feel they have then there's always the police complaints proceedure! :unsure: only expect to get stopped on a more regular basis if you do go that route!

 

Traffic cops are a different breed altogether

[Katash]

I've read alot of these incidents in various forums / mags and I honestly think the aggressive police approach is actually a clever ploy to provoke a response that would warrant someone as 'not of good character'

 

Supposing you had everything to prove you were there legitimatly .... IE SGC/FAC and permission maps and the officer pushes the wrong button and you start ranting about your rights, this doesnt give any weight to your sutability to own a firearm, you may aswell throw your next renewal in the bin!

 

He may actually be acting the ignorant PC deliberatly for this very reason, I think the key issue here is to remain calm.

 

On a side note, supposing you had a dictaphone handy - how would you stand legally with one? .... Would you have to inform them you are recording the convo or would it be best to keep it hidden?

[the running man]

Exactly right stay calm and polite,hence give them nowhere to go ref you're attitude.not sure on the dictaphone thing.

[al4x]

dictaphone would be fine, someone used one as evidence this week to get off being fitted up.

 

They are taught to go in strongly in most situations as usually the other person backs down. In these situations its easy not to when you are in the right but that is the wrong move. Be friendly approachable and non confrontational and usually you will be fine

[the running man]

dictaphone would be fine, someone used one as evidence this week to get off being fitted up.

 

They are taught to go in strongly in most situations as usually the other person backs down. In these situations its easy not to when you are in the right but that is the wrong move. Be friendly approachable and non confrontational and usually you will be fine

Non confrontational that's the word I was looking for!

[Devon Fox]

I will not be sending a letter of complaint as i do not want the hastle, when I corrected the policeman on the 2 points - expired ticket/legal requirements to carry license he did a u turn and backed off.

 

I did not like the attitude towards us, I can honestly say that we didnt react in any way other than to seek a resolution - which took 30-40 minutes as we were in a radio blackspot.

 

I have to agree with other members who carry there licenses with them - saves so much aggro, although they still would have checked the land and spoken to the farmer,I rang the farmer this morning to warn him of an impending phone call - he said "interupting you while shooting my foxes - I will let them F----g have it if they ring me!" :unsure: really funny as this guy never swears or raises his voice!

 

I have left a message with my FLO to give me a call and see what she says about the whole situation.

 

You live and you learn and no real harm done.

Edited June 25, 2010 by Hot-Shot

[Cranfield]

There is an ongoing need to keep and build bridges between the lawful shooting community and the police; so I don't quite understand why people seem to want to court trouble with the plod or score points off them on who knows what about firearms rules and regs.

 

Regardless of what the law says, most problems can be resolved with the production of the SGC/FAC. I am realistic enough that if plod were called to my permission then the chances are I would know more about firearms law than the police officer in attendance; so knowing that I really ought to cater for it i.e. have my ticket ready to show it's all legit. Again, I also recognise that the police officer in attendance is likely (as a matter of self preservation) to start from the assumption that we are poaching, and then take the situation from there.

 

A compliant and disarming approach works wonders in all manner of situations.

 

I don't see how a snotty letter or complaint would help anything or anyone. A short but polite letter may.

 

That just about sums it up.

 

The "Police bashing" posts we get make me laugh.

We have no idea what has been going on in, or around the area, or what instructions they have been given.

What about the feelings of the police knowing they are approaching potentially (in this case "actually") armed people.

They don't know us, are you going to be the next nutter that makes the headlines ?

 

I wouldn't want their job, because I couldn't do it, nor could a lot more on here, a little more respect wouldn't go amiss.

 

Carry your licence, carry your written permissions (if you have any) and be a bit more understanding of the situation.

This is not "giving in" or "kowtowing", its being sensible and behaving like someone who deserves to have been given a SGC or FAC.

[Gordon R]

Exactly - why seek a problem which can be avoided. There are no winners in these situations.

[Mr_Logic]

All I ask in these situations is that if the Police don't know the law, then they don't go in heavy-handed with shooters who clearly do. It would save a lot of time if Police accepted they don't know it all.

 

I've been stopped by various coppers over the years and I've had the excellent to the bloody awful. I don't expect perfect knowledge of quite muddy laws, but I do expect common courtesy. It's pretty obvious pretty quick if someone's dodgy!

[Devon Fox]

All I ask in these situations is that if the Police don't know the law, then they don't go in heavy-handed with shooters who clearly do. It would save a lot of time if Police accepted they don't know it all.

 

I've been stopped by various coppers over the years and I've had the excellent to the bloody awful. I don't expect perfect knowledge of quite muddy laws, but I do expect common courtesy. It's pretty obvious pretty quick if someone's dodgy!

 

 

Agreed

 

I understand they have a job to do - but there are ways of going about it! - If they dont know what they are dealing with, get on the phone/radio to someone who does know the law rather than threats of reporting us - for doing nothing wrong!

 

I bet we do not get an apology :unsure:

[Bluebarrels]

I dunno.

 

I do get the feeling that regardless of the rights and wrongs, these "incidents" would be that much more straightforward / shorter if people just had the licenses on them (or good and recent copies).

 

 

And thats the easiest option,whilst not being a legal requirement,keeps things much simpler in the long run :unsure: BB

 

Im pretty sure the police operate a system,where they can check if your a SGC/FAC holder on the police computer,with just your personal details etc,

they can do this,lets say they had to respond to a domestic,they can check by personal details if you hold any firearms etc,so they have an idea what they are getting into,thats the system the operate in Hampshire,anyone else throw any light on this BB

Edited June 25, 2010 by Bluebarrels

[RC45]

I always keep my Licence and Insurance with me, whenever I have my guns with me. Be it shooting or transporting my guns.

 

:-)

[bigt1754]

I'm a serving police officer. I have given talks (with pictures :unsure: ) to various departments on the countryside and country sports, and have had very good feedback. So I like to think I'm doing my bit because most police officers are not aware of everything that goes on in the countryside.

 

If I called anyone a numpty there would be uproar. NO police officer , or anyone to that matter knows everything about everything. Licenses can be checked over the radio, BUT the biggest help for me would be your permission slips and manners. If you feel that the police are heavy handed, COMPLAIN to the IPCC. If you find the the attending officer(s) don't know the firearms act, countryside act, general licenses or whatever act you think they should know, why don't you be an ambassador for the sport and enlighten them in a positive manner that would do wonders for for shooting/police relations instead of having a go on a public forum.

 

As has been said, you don't know what the police have been sent there for, and yes they maybe a bit edgy, so do your bit for the sport at least, its going to be difficult enough as it is in the future with all the possible changes that may happen.

 

And yes sometimes the bobby is sent in first to assess whats going on, with the firearms officers not very far away.

 

PLEASE people don't be rude, coppers have feelings too.

 

ATB

 

bigt

[Imperfection]

I'm a serving police officer. I have given talks (with pictures ) to various departments on the countryside and country sports, and have had very good feedback. So I like to think I'm doing my bit because most police officers are not aware of everything that goes on in the countryside.

 

If I called anyone a numpty there would be uproar. NO police officer , or anyone to that matter knows everything about everything. Licenses can be checked over the radio, BUT the biggest help for me would be your permission slips and manners. If you feel that the police are heavy handed, COMPLAIN to the IPCC. If you find the the attending officer(s) don't know the firearms act, countryside act, general licenses or whatever act you think they should know, why don't you be an ambassador for the sport and enlighten them in a positive manner that would do wonders for for shooting/police relations instead of having a go on a public forum.

 

As has been said, you don't know what the police have been sent there for, and yes they maybe a bit edgy, so do your bit for the sport at least, its going to be difficult enough as it is in the future with all the possible changes that may happen.

 

And yes sometimes the bobby is sent in first to assess whats going on, with the firearms officers not very far away.

 

PLEASE people don't be rude, coppers have feelings too.

 

ATB

 

bigt

 

 

:unsure:

 

I've always found that if you're polite to people-they give it back in return.

[Devon Fox]

I'm a serving police officer. I have given talks (with pictures :unsure: ) to various departments on the countryside and country sports, and have had very good feedback. So I like to think I'm doing my bit because most police officers are not aware of everything that goes on in the countryside.

 

If I called anyone a numpty there would be uproar. NO police officer , or anyone to that matter knows everything about everything. Licenses can be checked over the radio, BUT the biggest help for me would be your permission slips and manners. If you feel that the police are heavy handed, COMPLAIN to the IPCC. If you find the the attending officer(s) don't know the firearms act, countryside act, general licenses or whatever act you think they should know, why don't you be an ambassador for the sport and enlighten them in a positive manner that would do wonders for for shooting/police relations instead of having a go on a public forum.

 

As has been said, you don't know what the police have been sent there for, and yes they maybe a bit edgy, so do your bit for the sport at least, its going to be difficult enough as it is in the future with all the possible changes that may happen.

 

And yes sometimes the bobby is sent in first to assess whats going on, with the firearms officers not very far away.

 

PLEASE people don't be rude, coppers have feelings too.

 

ATB

 

bigt

 

 

I fully agree with you - If they had treated us reasonably and fairly I wouldnt have called them "numpties" - however, like every job there are good and bad!

 

Surely they should not be threatening "action" untill they they have been on the radio and checked us out? - like I said earlier, if they were that concerned they should talk to someone that knows the answers so there facts are correct and not be quite so heavy handed. It would have been quite easy to get sarky to them - but thats not me!, I just wanted to crack on!

 

I am nothing but respectful of the work they/you do, but being polite is not too much to ask?

 

I will not be making a complaint - and I believe I have done my bit by being respecfull of them - and obviously by doing everything by the book.

[Vipa]

And yes sometimes the bobby is sent in first to assess whats going on, with the firearms officers not very far away.

 

Corr... that sounds a bit unfair, AR boys big girls blouses then.... have to send a real copper in first to make sure it's safe for them? :look:

 

coppers have feelings too.

 

Aww bless, you sound all cuddly and fluffy Bigt

Edited June 25, 2010 by Vipa

[Dougy]

bigt

 

Spot on sir,

[here iam]

That just about sums it up.

 

The "Police bashing" posts we get make me laugh.

We have no idea what has been going on in, or around the area, or what instructions they have been given.

What about the feelings of the police knowing they are approaching potentially (in this case "actually") armed people.

They don't know us, are you going to be the next nutter that makes the headlines ?

 

I wouldn't want their job, because I couldn't do it, nor could a lot more on here, a little more respect wouldn't go amiss.

 

Carry your licence, carry your written permissions (if you have any) and be a bit more understanding of the situation.

This is not "giving in" or "kowtowing", its being sensible and behaving like someone who deserves to have been given a SGC or FAC.

Iam with Cranfield on this , some one has rung them up ? and does not like what you are doing :look: Just have the paper work and permission with you also ring police station up before you go out

[Mr_Logic]

i don't ring the police before I shoot apart from on one of my permissions which is in a town (cricket pitch). General principle - doing a legal activity and I will not announce my intentions to the Plod - we have enough surveillance anyway so I will go about my business when the hell I like.

 

I can see people saying "But it helps the Police respond better". Sadly in every occasion I've called and then had a visit from the coppers, they don't have any idea I called in first, so it doesn't make diddly squat difference!

[swiss.tony]

i don't ring the police before I shoot apart from on one of my permissions which is in a town (cricket pitch). General principle - doing a legal activity and I will not announce my intentions to the Plod - we have enough surveillance anyway so I will go about my business when the hell I like.

 

I can see people saying "But it helps the Police respond better". Sadly in every occasion I've called and then had a visit from the coppers, they don't have any idea I called in first, so it doesn't make diddly squat difference!

i agree wats point they will send them any way

[bigt1754]

i don't ring the police before I shoot apart from on one of my permissions which is in a town (cricket pitch). General principle - doing a legal activity and I will not announce my intentions to the Plod - we have enough surveillance anyway so I will go about my business when the hell I like.

 

I can see people saying "But it helps the Police respond better". Sadly in every occasion I've called and then had a visit from the coppers, they don't have any idea I called in first, so it doesn't make diddly squat difference!

 

 

i agree wats point they will send them any way

 

 

Thats fair enough, but when people complain and the police attend, don't be cross that you get the appropriate response to your attitude. It does matter and you you should get an incident /CAD number and quote it to the responding officers, it won't then take 30-40 minutes to get things sorted, and the operator can update the caller that you are there legit and doing nothing wrong. half the time the caller can see you and just wants to see the police to attend.

 

But sometimes, as is the case in my experience, you catch a baddy, stealing stuff, poaching, or just scoping the place out and I love to catch them at it. Wouldn't you be chuffed that the coppers caught someone on your permission/farm?

 

MR logic, you're entitled to your opinion, but your attitude IMO leaves a lot to to desired for the sport/hobby we all love.

 

Happy shooting everyone, and remember, in the words of Bill and Ted.... "Be excellent to each other"

 

Bigt

[bigt1754]

Agreed

 

I understand they have a job to do - but there are ways of going about it! - If they dont know what they are dealing with, get on the phone/radio to someone who does know the law rather than threats of reporting us - for doing nothing wrong!

 

I bet we do not get an apology

 

This is my point hot-shot, YOU are the one that knows whats going on, and its YOU that knows the law, boundaries, equipment and quarry better than anyone else there. EDUCATION mate, not rudeness. If the coppers come in a bit sharp, maybe consider what they have been told by the caller, who MAYBE an anti, because thats all they have to go on, which isn't a lot.

 

I have all my papers with me when I shoot including boundary maps. Its not because I'm being clever, If I get stopped, and I have, its sorted in 5 minutes rather than 30-40.

 

If you understand the police have a job to do, throw us a bone mate, and make it easy for us :look: That way time is spent shooting, which is what its all about

 

ATB

 

bigt

[the running man]

Thats fair enough, but when people complain and the police attend, don't be cross that you get the appropriate response to your attitude. It does matter and you you should get an incident /CAD number and quote it to the responding officers, it won't then take 30-40 minutes to get things sorted, and the operator can update the caller that you are there legit and doing nothing wrong. half the time the caller can see you and just wants to see the police to attend.

 

But sometimes, as is the case in my experience, you catch a baddy, stealing stuff, poaching, or just scoping the place out and I love to catch them at it. Wouldn't you be chuffed that the coppers caught someone on your permission/farm?

 

MR logic, you're entitled to your opinion, but your attitude IMO leaves a lot to to desired for the sport/hobby we all love.

 

Happy shooting everyone, and remember, in the words of Bill and Ted.... "Be excellent to each other"

 

Bigt

mr logic has given no indication that he will treat any attending officers with anything but respect and politeness,his attitude is to being told when and where he may go shooting,he may have a lame buck in one permission and a fox problem 20 miles away,I back his stance 100%. .also hotshot has already said that he and his friend treated the attending officers with respect and politeness so please read his orig post he's done nothing wrong and is asking for other peoples input not slurs on their character...he played it properly as I'm sure we all would if stopped,if unhappy then complain after not then,also as they and others have said.

Oh yeah keep ure cert + I'd on u wen shootin!

[Bazooka Joe]

Thats fair enough, but when people complain and the police attend, don't be cross that you get the appropriate response to your attitude.

 

TBH Big T, it's the police's attitude that's at question here, there heavy handed approach is what started the thread.

[Devon Fox]

Thanks runningman - I havent done anything wrong at all period - If I were to title the post "******* police/rozzers etc" then I would be fair game

 

This is not a police bashing thread, never was my intention - The thing that prompted me to put this on the forum was nothing but the attitude of the 2 officers that attended - but even that in my opinion isnt enough to warrant a complaint!

 

Hopefully they will go away having experienced the inspection of firearms, and having learnt the 2 key points - license does not have to be with you/expired license is still valid in the interim period.

 

As for putting this on the forum - that is my choice, I like to read and learn on the forum - help others when poss, and after all the police play a huge part in our sport and control - so i see no problem with this topic.

 

When you are any type of public servant - you are going to take a little flak, Police on the whole do a good job - but that does not mean you get to escape the odd moan!

 

Bazooka Joe is on the money - thats all this thread is about - attitude

 

Peace and out!