Problems within Our Sport today

[Dunkield]

The original question was to do with the general health of Sporting and FITASC - nothing to do with CPSA.

As it has been pointed out there are loads of CPSA bashing threads, this doesn't need to be another

[Mungler]

Well, the summary is that Sporting thrives at Haybales, and the other CPSA related stuff is in the 3 threads listed above.

 

Whether the CPSA took a "bashing" or not would be a subjective determination to be made by the reader; some say it's all lovely and hunky dorey in the CPSA, others don't.

 

I actually think that the CPSA has an important role - as a shooting organisation which is there to make all the other shooting organisations look good and well run :blink:

[100milesaway]

from Auntie.

Well, the summary is that Sporting thrives at Haybales, and the other CPSA related stuff is in the 3 threads listed above.

 

Whether the CPSA took a "bashing" or not would be a subjective determination to be made by the reader; some say it's all lovely and hunky dorey in the CPSA, others don't.

 

I actually think that the CPSA has an important role - as a shooting organisation which is there to make all the other shooting organisations look good and well run

[hillmouse]

Looking at the answer to the original question from the muddy end of the job I think that FITASC and English Sporting are in reasonably good health.

Based on my own experience and that of friends and fellow shooters the entrants have been generally happy and also quite numerous, enjoyed the layouts and grounds facilities, been satisfied with the scores and speed of updates etc., the Rules seem clear and set, reasonably well applied and the only consistent gripe I have heard is that the prize payout is a pittance with no prizes in kind on offer at most events. The second commonly heard comment is that there is nothing other than a shoot at even major national events, little or nothing in the way of sponsors stands, trade stands etc.

 

 

The political and organisational side is alleged to be a shambles as far as the governing body goes. But thats another topic altogether.

[poontang]

Slightly off topic I know, but just a little heads up to those who are members of the CPSA, but also do the occasional bit of live quarry shooting.

 

As of 1st Sept 2010 CPSA insurance no longer covers 'hunting' activities, so if you do a 'bit of both' it might be as well that you check out some extra insurance to cover your 'live' shooting.

[PhilR]

CPSA insurance cover link here:

http://www.cpsa.co.uk/insurance-cover

 

The bits they've recently removed are, I believe, hunting with horses and angling from boats.

[poontang]

CPSA insurance cover link here:

http://www.cpsa.co.uk/insurance-cover

 

The bits they've recently removed are, I believe, hunting with horses and angling from boats.

 

Well spotted Phil. I stand corrected.

 

I read it in their board meeting minutes, which mentioned pistol shooting and hunting activities.

[perazzi82]

Well, the summary is that Sporting thrives at Haybales, and the other CPSA related stuff is in the 3 threads listed above.

 

Whether the CPSA took a "bashing" or not would be a subjective determination to be made by the reader; some say it's all lovely and hunky dorey in the CPSA, others don't.

 

I actually think that the CPSA has an important role - as a shooting organisation which is there to make all the other shooting organisations look good and well run

mungler you seem to have a real problem with anything cpsa. fact is, is that it is the only organisation to join up to if you want to do well in the sport of clay pigeon shooting. and if you just enjoy the straw balers and like a laugh on a sunday, thats fair enough, your business, but you have to recognise that others however thrive on competition and want to better themselves at there chosen sport and dont want to hear loudmouths behind them when they are trying to shoot. that is the beauty of the straw baler i guess, you can make all the noise you want when someone is shooting. personally though i never saw the attraction of moronically blowing shells through the gun for the sake of it and never wondering if i was 20 feet of a certain target, but each to there own. yes cpsa aint perfect, but i dont believe it is anywhere near as bad as you would lead other less informed shooters on here to believe

[MC]

mungler you seem to have a real problem with anything cpsa. fact is, is that it is the only organisation to join up to if you want to do well in the sport of clay pigeon shooting. and if you just enjoy the straw balers and like a laugh on a sunday, thats fair enough, your business, but you have to recognise that others however thrive on competition and want to better themselves at there chosen sport and dont want to hear loudmouths behind them when they are trying to shoot. that is the beauty of the straw baler i guess, you can make all the noise you want when someone is shooting. personally though i never saw the attraction of moronically blowing shells through the gun for the sake of it and never wondering if i was 20 feet of a certain target, but each to there own. yes cpsa aint perfect, but i dont believe it is anywhere near as bad as you would lead other less informed shooters on here to believe

 

 

You don't?

 

Maybe you can shed some light on what they actually do for clay shooters? Why is it that they say they exist to promote and encourage the sport of clay pigeon shooting yet turn their backs on small clubs who have paid their affiliation money when they have an issue with neighbours etc?

 

I also don't get your bit about moronically blowing shells through a gun for the sake of it and never wondering if you were 20 feet off a target.

 

How does the CPSA help you with that one exactly?

 

Maybe you can also answer why it is that registered grounds do not adhere to the CPSA rules and when you mention it to the CPSA they don't want to know? If you think it isn't as bad as Mungler reckons you are sadly deluded.

[perazzi82]

You don't?

 

Maybe you can shed some light on what they actually do for clay shooters? Why is it that they say they exist to promote and encourage the sport of clay pigeon shooting yet turn their backs on small clubs who have paid their affiliation money when they have an issue with neighbours etc?

 

I also don't get your bit about moronically blowing shells through a gun for the sake of it and never wondering if you were 20 feet off a target.

 

How does the CPSA help you with that one exactly?

 

Maybe you can also answer why it is that registered grounds do not adhere to the CPSA rules and when you mention it to the CPSA they don't want to know? If you think it isn't as bad as Mungler reckons you are sadly deluded.

the cpsa runs the biggest events in the country and i know if i shoot them i will have a classification to compete against others of a similar ability. fact is your not going to see a british open run at your local strawbaler. and i like big events. i made the point of blowing the shells throught the gun because mungler made a point about not being able to laugh at the reg shoots. my point is, thats ok, its not for you, however there is others that get something from being members of cpsa Edited November 2, 2010 by perazzi82

[Chard]

Other people's personal hatred of the CPSA is not a reason for me not to join. Quite frankly, I don't give a flying **** if other people spit blood on hearing them mentioned. They don't have to join, it wasn't compulsory last time I checked. I would respect their decision not to join, but I expect them to respect my decision to join, without labelling me as some kind of bell end, because I choose to.

 

Some people just want a laugh out of clay shooting, a social thing. Fine, nowt wrong with that. That's all I used to want, but I changed. It's not enough now, I'd get bored with that and would probably only go now and again. I want the competitive thing, God knows why but I do, and even if I get hacked off because I do badly one week, I still want to go again next week.

 

It's been said that what the CPSA offer (classification system etc) would be easy to replicate. Well good-oh, but nobody has replicated it, so I'll use the CPSA thanks. It's the only game in town for shooters like me.

 

As for the politics of the CPSA (a la Claysporting.com BS)I don't give a flying **** about that either. Don't want to argue about ******* Boakes or any other ****. Claysporting.com can do that till they're blue in the face. They manage to convince themselves that they actually make a contribution to the sport by spouting their anti-CPSA **** endlessly. We all know that they make **** all difference, but whatever.

[MC]

the cpsa runs the biggest events in the country and i know if i shoot them i will have a classification to compete against others of a similar ability. fact is your not going to see a british open run at your local strawbaler. and i like big events. i made the point of blowing the shells throught the gun because mungler made a point about not being able to laugh at the reg shoots. my point is, thats ok, its not for you, however there is others that get something from being members of cpsa

 

 

You seem to be of the same ilk as catamong, he cannot answer what the CPSA does for its members either. OK so the CPSA runs a few big shoots, big deal. There are also several if not more large shoots that are run where they do not even have a say. The Essex Masters for one, and the Grand Masters at Southdown for two.

 

However my question to you was What do the CPSA do for their members, especially the small clubs who buy into their affiliation and then get nothing out of them when they need it the most.

 

Why is it that I shot a registered shoot at Caterham a year or so back and the cage was too short and I counld not stand under the rail across the top, when I mentioned this to the CPSA their answer was that they cannot control all grounds. Yet when I asked them why they were not promoting and pushing for more registered shoots in Essex they said it was because ground didn't want to know because of all the rules and regulations. It seems to be a double edged sword that the CPSA don't really want to hold.

 

What do you mean that you won't see a British open run at your local strawbaler? If you mean the superior birds that will be thrown then I disagree, strawbalers are not all dolly floppers on the end of your barrel you know. One evening shoot I attend has NEVER been straighted and some of the Essex squad used to shoot there.

I shoot lots of local clubs, on a sunday morning as I get a variety of calys to shoot. I don't need to travel miles to get my fix of clay shooting. If I want to be competitive and further myself I go rifle shooting where I have shot for my county.

[Chard]

You seem to be of the same ilk as catamong, he cannot answer what the CPSA does for its members either. OK so the CPSA runs a few big shoots, big deal. There are also several if not more large shoots that are run where they do not even have a say. The Essex Masters for one, and the Grand Masters at Southdown for two.

 

However my question to you was What do the CPSA do for their members, especially the small clubs who buy into their affiliation and then get nothing out of them when they need it the most.

 

Why is it that I shot a registered shoot at Caterham a year or so back and the cage was too short and I counld not stand under the rail across the top, when I mentioned this to the CPSA their answer was that they cannot control all grounds. Yet when I asked them why they were not promoting and pushing for more registered shoots in Essex they said it was because ground didn't want to know because of all the rules and regulations. It seems to be a double edged sword that the CPSA don't really want to hold.

 

What do you mean that you won't see a British open run at your local strawbaler? If you mean the superior birds that will be thrown then I disagree, strawbalers are not all dolly floppers on the end of your barrel you know. One evening shoot I attend has NEVER been straighted and some of the Essex squad used to shoot there.

I shoot lots of local clubs, on a sunday morning as I get a variety of calys to shoot. I don't need to travel miles to get my fix of clay shooting. If I want to be competitive and further myself I go rifle shooting where I have shot for my county.

 

COCK

 

I've got to agree that the Essex Masters is the most enjoyable competition I've ever had a pop at, and I agree with all the stuff about how the CPSA could learn from the Masters, blah-blah-blah.

 

However There aren't many Essex Masters knocking about and it doesn't mean that the CPSA doesn't serve a useful purpose to shooters like me.

 

It just means that they don't have a monopoly on the ability to organise an event - far from it, in fact.

[perazzi82]

You seem to be of the same ilk as catamong, he cannot answer what the CPSA does for its members either. OK so the CPSA runs a few big shoots, big deal. There are also several if not more large shoots that are run where they do not even have a say. The Essex Masters for one, and the Grand Masters at Southdown for two.

 

However my question to you was What do the CPSA do for their members, especially the small clubs who buy into their affiliation and then get nothing out of them when they need it the most.

 

Why is it that I shot a registered shoot at Caterham a year or so back and the cage was too short and I counld not stand under the rail across the top, when I mentioned this to the CPSA their answer was that they cannot control all grounds. Yet when I asked them why they were not promoting and pushing for more registered shoots in Essex they said it was because ground didn't want to know because of all the rules and regulations. It seems to be a double edged sword that the CPSA don't really want to hold.

 

What do you mean that you won't see a British open run at your local strawbaler? If you mean the superior birds that will be thrown then I disagree, strawbalers are not all dolly floppers on the end of your barrel you know. One evening shoot I attend has NEVER been straighted and some of the Essex squad used to shoot there.

I shoot lots of local clubs, on a sunday morning as I get a variety of calys to shoot. I don't need to travel miles to get my fix of clay shooting. If I want to be competitive and further myself I go rifle shooting where I have shot for my county.

mc i could be wrong but but does the essex masters not use the cpsa classifications to sort the prizes out? i think they do. and no i wasnt referring to the targets but the event itself. you wont see a british open being held at a strawbaler because it probably couldnt do it. as for the cage issue, i think your being a little picky there just. i mean how are they going to enforce rules for someones stupidity. i like it, you dont. end of. you stick to your strawbalers, where your buddies go wahey when a clay is hit, with the cages of perfect dimensions, and leave the big shoots for the big boys

[Mungler]

If the only clay shooting I could get meant I had to join the CPSA then yes I would join it. However, registered sporting events are a little thin on the ground in Essex.

 

I agree that it is horses for courses. If you want to shoot competitively (with a minority of clay shooters) then join the CPSA. However, if you want to shoot with friends or at strawbalers (with the majority of clay shooters) then join BASC.

 

Yes, it is that simples.

 

I just don't get what all the excitement is - the CPSA run a large spreadsheet and keep the scores. It's not that difficult and yes, they are currently the only organisation that does it.

[Gordon R]

It is some years since I was in the CPSA and I have not felt the need to rejoin.

 

Perazzi 82

i think your being a little picky there just. i mean how are they going to enforce rules for someones stupidity. i like it, you dont. end of. you stick to your strawbalers, where your buddies go wahey when a clay is hit, with the cages of perfect dimensions, and leave the big shoots for the big boys

 

In the time I was not in the CPSA, I shot against

 

Brendan Frost 3rd in World FITASC

 

Colin Foden 2nd in World FITASC

 

Graham Stirzaker

 

Kevin Mayor - British Sporting Champion

 

Jim Stafford - British Sporting Champion

 

Plus a host of others. Not one of those sneered at "Straw bale shoots".

 

Big shoots for big boys

- perhaps the most pretentious rubbish I have read in quite some time.

 

Each to his own. If you want to win nationals, join the CPSA. I presume you have already won a few "Big Boy shoots".

[MC]

mc i could be wrong but but does the essex masters not use the cpsa classifications to sort the prizes out? i think they do. and no i wasnt referring to the targets but the event itself. you wont see a british open being held at a strawbaler because it probably couldnt do it. as for the cage issue, i think your being a little picky there just. i mean how are they going to enforce rules for someones stupidity. i like it, you dont. end of. you stick to your strawbalers, where your buddies go wahey when a clay is hit, with the cages of perfect dimensions, and leave the big shoots for the big boys

 

 

Are you really as thick as your posts make you out to be? I fear that Chard may have been right and claysporting has gone belly up and the dregs have found their way over here.

 

You think I am being picky about the cages on a REGISTERED shoot are too small and dangerous to be used? I have never been to a strawbale shoot and had a issue like that. But then again the CPSA have nothing to do with the clay shoots I attend. That is their choice. If they (AND YOU) think the future of this sport is in the british open then they (AND YOU) are very sadly mistaken.

 

The OP asked what is wrong with our sport today, if you want to know the answer to taht one go and look in a mirror. Attitudes like the one you have (Or should that be chip on your shoulder) is what is wrong with the sport today. Far too many people think they are above their station.

 

I assume by your childish remarks at the end of your post you don't shoot strawbalers? or are you one of these who goes round them all on a sunday hoping you will pick up a 2nd or 3rd place?

[Chard]

:good:

 

 

I find that my Elite Blue Card increases my sex appeal enormously

 

Edited November 2, 2010 by Chard

[P~MX]

I am Sorry I started this thread now --- this is exactly the sort of thing I didn't want to have happened between fellow shooters no matter where or what they shoot, As I did say whether you like it or not we all as clay shooters should join an association whether it be the CPSA or BASC, SACS or the Country Side Alliance as I fear in days to come we will all need to stand together under one umbrella.

 

The idea of my thread was to see if we as clay shooters can can come up with ideas that might help improve our sport in the days to come, we all know grounds are struggling to numbers up, with the ever increasing price of shells & fuel shooters are finding it tough to shoot on a regular basis, if we count the total expense of a days shooting (100 reg) it can cost anywhere up to £80 -- to be honest what ordinary man can afford that these days -- especially coming up to Christmas ! I still think the state of the country's finances are a big part of the problem ! Fuel prices alone effects the cost of Everything we buy.

 

f3

Edited November 2, 2010 by f3x3

[rolo67]

Hello to you all from a new boy,

 

like many I too begrudge the fee I pay to the CPSA (my choice I know) but there is just no alternative for comps. However, can anybody enlighten me as to;

 

- what the chief exec does for 65K?

 

- why it is that they say they can't stipulate that their reg'd grounds are bound to offer concessions for youth, but at the same time say that these grounds should charge non members a "day pass", which is to cover insurance even though the grounds are already insured?

 

- why do they employ staff (waste of money) to man their stands at shows that cannot answer these questions & more?

 

I could go on (absence from the LAG?) but it really isn't worth it. I just live in hope that a rival emerges that really does have the interests of shooting & shooters at heart because I'd be off like the proverbial!

 

In spite of the above I still really enjoy my shooting & look forward to participating in this forum.

[Catamong]

Hello to you all from a new boy,

 

like many I too begrudge the fee I pay to the CPSA (my choice I know) but there is just no alternative for comps. However, can anybody enlighten me as to;

 

- what the chief exec does for 65K?

 

- why it is that they say they can't stipulate that their reg'd grounds are bound to offer concessions for youth, but at the same time say that these grounds should charge non members a "day pass", which is to cover insurance even though the grounds are already insured?

 

- why do they employ staff (waste of money) to man their stands at shows that cannot answer these questions & more?

 

I could go on (absence from the LAG?) but it really isn't worth it. I just live in hope that a rival emerges that really does have the interests of shooting & shooters at heart because I'd be off like the proverbial!

 

In spite of the above I still really enjoy my shooting & look forward to participating in this forum.

 

Rolo,

 

Welcome to the forum, you've made some interesting points, I've no idea what the Chief Exec does for his £65k, probably about the same as the BASC Chief Exec does for his similar salary..??

 

Hopefully we'll have a new one soon who's really in touch with the "Grass Roots" members, but knowing the CPSA as I do, I wouldn't put money on it.

 

Grounds can charge what they like, if shooters don't like to pay it, they vote with their feet. It's not down to the CPSA to stipulate that grounds MUST offer concessions for Juniors, I also think it's entirely justified that the CPSA should charge a levy if a non member wants to shoot as Registered event, what's wrong with that, every other sport does it, it doesn't cover just insurance..??

 

Staff are not a waste of money, they're an essential asset for any organisation, if those staff are not competent, they should be properly trained to deal with the public.

 

What's the LAG..??

 

There was a "rival" organisation set up by a disgruntled member some years ago, but it went nowhere, we should all look to reform the CPSA, not set up another clone.

 

Cat.

[Chard]

What's the LAG..??

 

 

Something to do with lead isn't it? The other topic on Claysporting.

[P~MX]

Hello Rolo, welcome to PW -- I'm fairly new here myself, I will certainly agree with you on the point of what the CPSA do or rather don;t do for our young guns, Every year since my son has been old enough to shoot I've taken him to 2 of the Majors in UK and each time I've had to pay the same entry fee for him (approx £50) as I have to pay myself --- I think that is disgusting coming from an association that's acting in the interests of Clay Pigeon Shooting, with all the money that's paid into the CPSA why can't colts & juniors shoot at a reduced rate ?

 

f3

Edited November 2, 2010 by f3x3

[rolo67]

Thanks for the welcome Cat,

 

some fair points, the CPSA has a hell of a lot of work to do (from what I've seen!) in training its staff & turning itself into what it should be.

 

One point I forgot is the county set up, which doesn't have any consistency from county to county, some seem to be very proactive & innovative while my own (H&W) is pretty much a closed shop populated by a bunch of self serving, sycophantic cretins, apart from one or two good eggs.

 

Ah well, such is life, gives us something to talk (& hopefully chuckle) about doesn't it?

 

ATB

Rolo

[rolo67]

Hello Rolo, welcome to PW -- I'm fairly new here myself, I will certainly agree with you on the point of what the CPSA do or rather don;t do for our young guns, Every year since my son has been old enough to shoot I've taken him to 2 of the Majors in UK and each time I've had to pay the same entry fee for him (approx £50) as I have to pay myself --- I think that is disgusting coming from an association that's acting in the interests of Clay Pigeon Shooting, with all the money that's paid into the CPSA why can't colts & juniors shoot at a reduced rate ?

 

f3

 

Hello F3,

 

thanks for your welcome too. I don't know about you but I ring these grounds before going, to check on their rates, if they don't give at least 50% reduction for the nipper they don't get any of my hard earned. If you look at the scores on the CPSA you don't see many colts or juniors in proportion to seniors so the discount surely wouldn't hurt the ground owners that much.

 

ATB Rolo