Hmmmm, my 686 is getting loose

[Paddy Galore!]

just noticed the action on my old 686 is not as tight as it should be, now i heard somewhere that berettas are awkward to re joint, anyone had the same issue? The locating holes in the barrels are elongated, how much of a bitch is it to get fixed? Any advice?(other than selling it on or binning it)

Thanks in advance,

gram

[welshwarrior]

Just buy replacement studs and screw them in the place of the worn ones.

[seeker]

Barry Simpson at Newmarket showed me hi 682 ... something like 200,000 on the clock and he'd had oversized studs fitted and as solid as new.

Apparently Beretta do a couple of larger sizes for such problems

[Paddy Galore!]

aha, oversize studs! didn't think of that. thanks chaps.

[hillmouse]

GMK should have the oversize trunnions in stock. You can also replace the shoulders on some Berettas too (where the wee screw is on the barrel lugs)

Should do the trick for you.

 

I have a 30+ year old 680 skeet, rattley slack open and as tight as a drum shut and it has never been touched. I would not dare guess how many thousands have gone through it.

 

I always lightly grease the trunnions and barrel recesses.

[gsm1968]

Barry Simpson at Newmarket showed me hi 682 ... something like 200,000 on the clock and he'd had oversized studs fitted and as solid as new.

Apparently Beretta do a couple of larger sizes for such problems

 

They also do oversize locking pins. When My 682 was loose I swaped the two studs around while I waited for the spares to arrive. It worked that well I only replaced them two years latter.

[Paddy Galore!]

are the trunnions the same as the locking pins/ studs? the action is tight on the sides, it just opens a wee bit when closed due to holes being stretched.

[hillmouse]

The trunnions, pins, pegs, or whatever you wish to call are the sticky out round bits the barrels locate on to. The ones on Beretta's are replaceable to allow for wear.

The oversized ones should do the trick.

[welshwarrior]

This where I got mine http://gunspares.co.uk/shopdisplayproducts.asp?page=4

[gsm1968]

The parts you need are:

2 off of no. 25

1 off the "horseshoe" locking pin ( I think no.42 in the diagram)

 

Both are available in oversize for worn guns.

PM me if you would like the diagram emailed.

[Harnser]

Dont listen to what anybody has said Graham . The gun has had it ,bring it round to my house and I will give you a tenner for it .

 

Harnser .

[Paddy Galore!]

The trunnions, pins, pegs, or whatever you wish to call are the sticky out round bits the barrels locate on to. The ones on Beretta's are replaceable to allow for wear.

The oversized ones should do the trick.

No mate, didn't mean them bits, i meant the two small pins that lock the barrels shut.

 

The parts you need are:

2 off of no. 25

1 off the "horseshoe" locking pin ( I think no.42 in the diagram)

 

Both are available in oversize for worn guns.

PM me if you would like the diagram emailed.

thanks for that, much appreciated, all i need id the locking pins

 

Dont listen to what anybody has said Graham . The gun has had it ,bring it round to my house and I will give you a tenner for it .

 

Harnser .

OOH! you wish

Once again PW comes to the rescue, the gun is going in to be done, at least i know what it all entails now, thanks again guys.

atb,

gram

[utectok]

I've done mine myself got the parts and fitted new stub pins up one size and new bolt also up one size snug as a bug now! Really easy if your a bit handy.

[utectok]

Oh and there is an Italian company that supplies all the parts really cheap, can't remember but got it on PW.

[petrol_head29]

part number 25 the little transoms apparently can be poped out wwith some heat and swaped round to take up any play, well thats what the gun shop who brought my old one done and is now as tight as new

[gsm1968]

part number 25 the little transoms apparently can be poped out wwith some heat and swaped round to take up any play, well thats what the gun shop who brought my old one done and is now as tight as new

 

Mine unscrewed with an allan key

Also swapped them around and the gun tightened nicely. The new ones were supplied unpolished and took about a year to get around to polishing them before fitting.

[Paddy Galore!]

Got her back today and it works a treat, now then, would anyone like to swap for a browning?

[a6northwest]

Does anyone have or is anyone able to take measurements of the locking lugs/latches please? 

 I am in need of oversized locking lugs/latches - item 29 in this below schematic (The horseshoe item mentioned in the previous posts).

https://www.brownells.co.uk/Schematics/Beretta/Shotguns/Beretta-686-Silver-Pigeon-Competition-Schematic#29

I've a fairly old gun so don't know if this has already been performed already or not.

I see replacement lugs are available in 0.15 or 0.30 oversize, so I would be interested to know what the critical dimensions are of the original and oversize parts are for comparison.

 

Thankyou for any assistance.

Steve 

 

 

[figgy]

E store Beretta is the cheapest place I've found for spares. Also always worth checking that if you swap your trunnions from one side to the other,if you can get them on the bit that does not wear. Not always possible but great if it is.when you take the trunnions out you will see the part that's worn shiny. Unless your gun is off the face your trunnions should be ok.

Link

http://estore.beretta.com/en-

Edited November 30, 2018 by figgy

[a6northwest]

Thanks Figgy Ill check them out. I have no noticeable play in the trunnions (item 27 in the below schematic, they call a hinge pin), just the locking pins/latches, but no harm trying the trunions/hinge pins first.

https://www.brownells.co.uk/Schematics/Beretta/Shotguns/Beretta-686-Silver-Pigeon-Competition-Schematic#27

thanks

 

[Agriv8]

On 29/11/2018 at 12:19, a6northwest said:

Does anyone have or is anyone able to take measurements of the locking lugs/latches please? 

 I am in need of oversized locking lugs/latches - item 29 in this below schematic (The horseshoe item mentioned in the previous posts).

https://www.brownells.co.uk/Schematics/Beretta/Shotguns/Beretta-686-Silver-Pigeon-Competition-Schematic#29

I've a fairly old gun so don't know if this has already been performed already or not.

I see replacement lugs are available in 0.15 or 0.30 oversize, so I would be interested to know what the critical dimensions are of the original and oversize parts are for comparison.

 

Thankyou for any assistance.

Steve 

 

 

Morning all has anyone located what the Standard  Lugs  ( new size is ) my 686 is getting on for 30 years old So I would like to check if the are original or not.

Or someone with a new silver Pigeon with a set of verniers

Many Thanks 

Agriv8

 

 

 

[Gunman]

Is the gun just loose in the bite ? if so a new over sized locking bolt is needed .These will go straight in without any problem apart from the stripping an reassembly but may need the barrel bites eased so the new bolt seats correctly .

If it is off face then thats the time to think of new hinge studs . These can be a bit of a problem , not in the fitting but getting the bearings in the hooks right , then blacking down onto the face . Possibly having to fit new draws [Dont know what Beretta call them  ] on the barrel wings , and even ejector regulation.

Slackness in the action is another matter and not one for DIY , but by making sure the forend iron is firm and the bolting is OK then not a lot to worry about .

I would recommend you get it done by an experience person as there are problems that can crop up and it may cost twice as much for some one to put it right .

[a6northwest]

I fitted a +0.30mm oversize locking latch from gunspares in the end. Worked a treat.

Not knowing which to get - 0.15 or 0.30 I first looked at the release lever position with no barrels attached and 'released' by pressing the small release pin, then again with barrels attached. Both were the same position. With barrels attached a small gap was visible at the top of the barrel mating face that could be closed by squeezing the gun shut (but no gap from twisting motion, so not loose hinge pins)

I then made up small shims out of acetate measured with micrometer and fitted these into the mating holes in the barrel faces, adding layers until the locking lever began to sit right of centre again with the gun closed. I measured about 0.25mm thickness needed, so went for the 0.30mm.

The  new +0.30mm Latch has a number "2" stamped on it (annoyingly on the side that is hidden when it is installed).

My previous loose latch when removed has a number "1" stamped on it, and signs of previous work (and very worn mating holes on the barrel face itself) so I interpret the "1" to be the +0.15mm first oversize. My shimming method was therefore not to be relied upon, as I only apparently increased the size of the lugs up by 0.15 from the already oversize lugs fitted.

 

Dimensions:

#1 locking lug (presumably +0.15)

lug end tip minor diameter (on flat faces) 4.18mm

end tip major diameter (on round faces) 4.93mm

 

#2 locking lug (known +0.30mm)

end tip minor diameter (on flat faces) 4.30mm

end tip major diameter (on round faces) 5.16mm

My approach was below for interest,  but use at your own risk/don't do this yourself etc etc.

Stripping the action down as far as the locking lug was straightforward, but getting the lugs out is a PITA, and for this alone I would just give the gun to a gunsmith.

Using a Youtube video: "Episode 165 - Beretta 68x Detailed Disassembly". Don't disassemble the trigger assembly though. Referring to items on this schematic (click part numbers on the schematic to get zoomed in picture)

https://www.brownells.co.uk/Schematics/Beretta/Shotguns/Beretta-686-Silver-Pigeon-Competition-Schematic

Cock hammers. Remove barrels and stock, drift out one small pin #52 holding the safety/barrel selector assembly and lift out.  Unscrew trigger group top screw hiding underneath safety #54 . unscrew small grub retaining screw#78 and large screw#55 by trigger guard (used extra-thin ground down flathead bit). This is as far as the video goes.

Drift out the small pin #86 holding the safety lever gate block #101 and remove it, don't lose the spring behind it. Mine is not auto-safety so yours may differ.

I took out the top firing pin #40 and spring #42 (drift out retaining pin from right to left - then the firing pin will be freed up first, then be ready to catch the  locking latch #38 and spring/guide #36 #37 that is also held in by the same pin. Remove the locking latch release pin #35 as well so you don't lose it.

You can then get better access to the top lever retaining nut #33. To do this I used a security flathead screwdriver (with a notch cut out the middle) to remove the nut #33. The centre threaded pin that screws into the lever itself #34 I left in place (here I saw evidence of previous galling from a poorly fitted screwdriver as mine had a slotted head and was seized tight, but I see the newer design has an allen head to this small screw #34. Once the retaining nut is removed now comes the tricky bit of removing the 'top lever pin' #32 - the lever must be opened slightly (as if opening the gun) to allow this to clear the locking pins (one edge of the top lever pin is obscured by the locking pin crossbrace). to pop out of the mating hole in the top lever itself. Rightly or wrongly I did this by wrapping the block in a kitchen towel to catch flying springs, holding opening the cocking lever enough to see daylight past the face of the top lever pin then drifting the 'top lever pin' #32 down into the gunfrom the topside of the lever with a wood dowel. A few sharp taps and it came out. You can then withdraw the locking levers and the lever return spring and plunger #30 #31. It's a three-handed job but doable with two with some effort.

Refitting the locking lug  was exceptionally fiddly as the lever return spring is under great tension. I read elsewhere that a jig can be made - presumably to compress the spring using a thin flat plate and clamp flush with the rear of the block whilst you refit the top lever pin. I couldn't get this to work.

What I did was Refit the return spring and plunger #30 #31 and loosely fit the locking lugs#29. don't press home all the way, as you now need to drop the top lever pin #32 into place - the cam on the top lever pin #32 that mates with the locking lugs can be slightly engaged, but note that the top lever pin won't sit flush with the face of the locking lugs, and won't fully engage, and the arm of the top lever pin will only just engage with the return spring - it fits underneath the locking lugs only when the top lever pin is engaged in the pivot hole in the block that the top lever sits in.

To get the top lever pin into its hole I got a quick-grip one handed bar clamp with soft faces. One face rests on the receiver face where the firing pins stick out of, then other one only just grabs hold of the back of the locking lug by the block tang, enough that you can squeeze (with some force) enough to compress the spring so the top lever pin gets close to its hole. I used a drill shank poked through the top lever pin hole from the top to guide it home, with light taps from any face that needs it, all whilst making sure the clamp didn't slip off the back of the locking lug. Once the top lever pin is over its hole, tap it home and it will eventually sit flush with the face of the locking lug, and then the locking lug will click forward and partially cover it. You can now remove the clamp, refit the retaining nut and re-assemble everything else in reverse order, noting and renewing threadlock where used.

Whole process took me 2 hours the first time - mostly trying to get the top lever pin back home against the spring pressure, but then I disassembled again to take measurements and the 2nd time took under 30 minutes start to finish.

Lever now sits slightly right of centre when gun is closed and gun locks up with no gap at the barrel face opening up under flexing.

If I wasn't needing my gun the next day I would have used a gunsmith, but I'm glad I did it myself as I am more confident in cleaning the internals.

 

 

 

[Gunman]

Use a .0015" feeler gauge to check ther is a clearance between the barrel wings and the top of the action . If nor then it needs to be so . 

There is a point on the radius section that can be tight but not to the extent of binding .

If the barrel is bearing hard on the action the bolt is not able to lock correctly , can cause the lever to be stiff/hard to open after firing .

It can also lead to the barrels being held off face .

[propercartridges]

the pivit pins what your barells hinge on can be taken out and changed around    from left to right then when relocated the worn flatspot is now lost so no need to buy them this time    next is your horeshoe pin it comes in diferent sizes    mike you entry holes into your barrels and buy accodinly     cheers   george   owner of about 40 berratas