richard_gun Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 Have recently received FAC for .22LR, .17HMR and .243 This is with West Mercia. There is no mentoring requirement for the rimfires but I do have one for centrefire which was no surprise as I nominated a suitably experienced open FAC holder who was happy to be my mentor. On receiving FAC I was slightly surprised that the nominated mentor isn't named. I suppose this is good in that I may have the opportunity to go out with others who are suitably qualified. Hopefully not having a single nominated mentor won't make it any more tricky to get the condition removed before too long? The actual wording is:- The .243 rifle and .243 sound moderator and ammunition shall be used for deer / fox control WHILST UNDER THE SUPERVISON OF AN EXPERIENCED FULL BORE RIFLE SHOOTER and for zeroing on ranges or land deemed suitable by the Chief Officer of Police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot. This leads me to a few questions:- 1) I will assume that an experienced full bore rifle shooter is someone with an Open FAC for at least .243 cal. 2) Is there an exact definition of a Full Bore Rifle or minimum calibre? Obviously CF but....? 3) The wording states that I would need to be Supervised whilst actually performing deer / fox control. The way I read it would mean that I could perform zeroing without a mentor being present as I have suitable .243 cleared land. If I am right about this it will be good as I wouldn't want to drag someone along to zero a scope or maybe practice some 'zeroing'shots prior to taking DSC1 etc.. Is this the way you guys also read the statement ? It is theoretical at the moment as I haven't yet bought the .243 but wanted to clarify this point.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentKill Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 You will get various answers to this but the best thing you can do is ask your FEO! they will give you a definitive answer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 This leads me to a few questions:- 1) I will assume that an experienced full bore rifle shooter is someone with an Open FAC for at least .243 cal. 2) Is there an exact definition of a Full Bore Rifle or minimum calibre? Obviously CF but....? 3) The wording states that I would need to be Supervised whilst actually performing deer / fox control. The way I read it would mean that I could perform zeroing without a mentor being present as I have suitable .243 cleared land. If I am right about this it will be good as I wouldn't want to drag someone along to zero a scope or maybe practice some 'zeroing'shots prior to taking DSC1 etc.. Is this the way you guys also read the statement ? It is theoretical at the moment as I haven't yet bought the .243 but wanted to clarify this point.... 1) I wouldn't expect that you need a person with an open ticket. I mentored someone whilst I was on a closed ticket. 2) Each force will have a differing opinion. Although I would generally say that any centrefire rifle would be fine, so even a .17 Fireball owner could be deemed a suitable mentor. 3) Not sure what to make of it. I think this needs clarifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 (edited) The .243 rifle and .243 sound moderator and ammunition shall be used for deer / fox control WHILST UNDER THE SUPERVISON OF AN EXPERIENCED FULL BORE RIFLE SHOOTER and for zeroing on ranges or land deemed suitable by the Chief Officer of Police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot. I had similar wording on my FAC when I first started on C/F for Fox but with a Named Mentor (Who I had nominated). I phoned my Firearms Office up and asked them if I had to have my mentor with me all the time that I was out with the rifle as i wanted to check the zero of the rifle and practice shooting off the sticks or if it was just when I was just out "hunting". The way it was explained to me was that I did not need my mentor with me for zeroing my rifle etc as long as it was on land that had been cleared for up to at least the caliber of rifle I was zeroing, the condition was for when out shooting foxes. (Foxes in my case but for deer and fox in your case)! You would be best not to just take my word for this but to phone your FEO and check - just to be on the safe side! Edited November 26, 2010 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 (edited) i have roughly the same condition. the FEO told me that they would expect centrefire open ticket as "proof" of mentors experience. mine actually just says someone experienced in fox control! which is a bit ambiguous. Edited November 26, 2010 by artschool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 Hi, As I understand it, a centrefire rifle kicks into fullbore at 243. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 what it allows you to do is buy stalking and use your rifle rather than name a person and go out with a variety of people. I've got one more comical which is deer when accompanied whatever that means. In your case if you are out with someone who has a centrefire that should be adequate as long as they don't have a mentor condition and some experience. I'd go along with Frenchie in that I would assume from the wording that you can zero on your own. I'd get BASC to qualify it rather than your FEO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 It sounds like they are trying to be a bit of a smart bottom, and a pain in one, ask them to define fullbore, as against small bore, or quarter bore, I thought that 22 cal was small bore, up to 6mm, 1/4 bore and anything over 0.30 (7.62) was fullbore. I would of thought that anyone with an open ticket for any CF would be suitable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 As this mentoring thing is not part of the application for a firearms certificate and is thrown in by some constabularys . Therefore there are no guidlines in law refferance mentoring . So each constabulary has a hotch potch system of mentoring with no difinative guidelines , a compleate nonsence . If it is deemed by parliament that mentoring is necessay for novice users of centre fire rifles then it should be introduced as a condition of rifle ownership and a complete set of guidlines introduced through out the country . As for what is a full bore calibre , I would say any centre fire rifle above .22 . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 I've got a similar condition on my .308 and have questions into my FET requesting clarification on the same for two weeks without response thus far. Oddly I have no such condiion on my .243 which makes the whole thing a bit of a joke really. The letter I sent in with my FAC was polite but pretty robust and I fully expect I'll hear nothing back until I need to chase them once my current supply of ammo runs low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_gun Posted November 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 Thanks for all your thoughts. Theres certainly a vast array of conditions handed out... Probably best to speak to my FEO as he seemed very sensible and down to earth when doing the visit. Once I do get any clarification I'll post it up.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted November 28, 2010 Report Share Posted November 28, 2010 Move to North Yorkshire. Open tickets and no mentoring. I am glad I live here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Have recently received FAC for .22LR, .17HMR and .243 This is with West Mercia. There is no mentoring requirement for the rimfires but I do have one for centrefire which was no surprise as I nominated a suitably experienced open FAC holder who was happy to be my mentor. On receiving FAC I was slightly surprised that the nominated mentor isn't named. I suppose this is good in that I may have the opportunity to go out with others who are suitably qualified. Hopefully not having a single nominated mentor won't make it any more tricky to get the condition removed before too long? The actual wording is:- The .243 rifle and .243 sound moderator and ammunition shall be used for deer / fox control WHILST UNDER THE SUPERVISON OF AN EXPERIENCED FULL BORE RIFLE SHOOTER and for zeroing on ranges or land deemed suitable by the Chief Officer of Police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot. This leads me to a few questions:- 1) I will assume that an experienced full bore rifle shooter is someone with an Open FAC for at least .243 cal. 2) Is there an exact definition of a Full Bore Rifle or minimum calibre? Obviously CF but....? 3) The wording states that I would need to be Supervised whilst actually performing deer / fox control. The way I read it would mean that I could perform zeroing without a mentor being present as I have suitable .243 cleared land. If I am right about this it will be good as I wouldn't want to drag someone along to zero a scope or maybe practice some 'zeroing'shots prior to taking DSC1 etc.. Is this the way you guys also read the statement ? It is theoretical at the moment as I haven't yet bought the .243 but wanted to clarify this point.... 'Ere, is that you in November's Sporting Gun (SG)? :unsure: Actually, we (by that I mean me []) and David Frost from SG) shouldn't be too harsh on Plod. It turns out that both of us are not sure of our facts but that doesn't stop us spouting off. In an earlier post on this thread I said 243, Frost says SA80 and we're both wrong. A fullbore starts life at 0.3". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiss.tony Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 thats a rubbish condtion your stuck every time you want to go out get too shouth yorkshire open ticket on C/F FROM OFF WITH NO exsperiance wat so ever had not evan bought gun and it was open Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 Open certs with no mentoring, proven past experiance or training is a very bad thing for all existing gun owners and there are disasters out there waiting to happen as a result of this cost cutting attitude. Its one more area the police are failing in thier duty IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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