Harnser Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 In this months BASC magazine . Another new course ,the pre-dsci course . How long before we have the pre-pre- dsci course . Just another nail in the novice stalkers coffin . It wont be long before shooting deer is well and truly out of the reach of the ordinary man in the street because of the prohibitive cost of courses that the police will insist on to grant a ticket for shooting deer . A cash cow ? proberbly . We are gentleman our own worst enemies . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 In this months BASC magazine . Another new course ,the pre-dsci course . How long before we have the pre-pre- dsci course . Just another nail in the novice stalkers coffin . It wont be long before shooting deer is well and truly out of the reach of the ordinary man in the street because of the prohibitive cost of courses that the police will insist on to grant a ticket for shooting deer . A cash cow ? proberbly . We are gentleman our own worst enemies . Harnser . This course isnt a new thing I did it about 2 years ago, learnt abit but wouldn't say that it was worth the money as the DSC 1 course itself is only an extra £100 so you may aswell go straight for the DSC 1 and skip the Pre course alltogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Oh how right you are Harnser and BASC are suposed to be on our side fighting this nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 the problem is the ones who run the courses are well embedded within BASC. There is a very narrow line between helping people into stalking and putting obstacles in the way. I can't make up my mind quite which way its going but of course the argument from them will always be that its helping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 The 'problem' is how this is misused by Firearms Departments, BASC and the BDS are providing courses for those wishing to learn, you only have to read some the posts on here and other forums to know there are quite a few that could do with that :blink: There is nothing new here it has all been done to death a million times before, the only remaining interesting part for me is the relative age of the responders (ignoring those with an agenda) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 This course isnt a new thing I did it about 2 years ago, learnt abit but wouldn't say that it was worth the money as the DSC 1 course itself is only an extra £100 so you may aswell go straight for the DSC 1 and skip the Pre course alltogether. I'm intrigued LS, What exactly does this Pre DSC-1 Course consist off ? A break down please First I've heard of it, another hoop for the budding Deer Stalker to jump through, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 http://www.basc.org.uk/en/departments/shooting-standards/basc-training-courses/deer-stalking-predsc-level-1-course.cfm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 I've found the whole DSC1 thing exasperating. I wanted to go with the NGO for my DSC1 at a local venue, I went on the list for the second time at the Midland Gave Fair. They kept me hanging on for months saying it is just about to happen..... still no reply or retun of my 8 or 10 calls. The latest and very unconfirmed dates are now just 4 weeks away, no course materials are available and now it looks as if work has now booked those dates for stuff I cannot change. As NGO could not confirm the dates, I could not book holiday/cover. I don't want to do a pre DSC1 and cannot see any point in this pre course. Sounds like pre-foreplay to me. What is the point? just get on with the job. Options are to go south and pay silly money for B+B in addition to Jelen services or a BDS one and again travel loads and more B+B. Rant over. :blink: Anyone got any DSC1 course notes I can start to read up on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Well...£125+ BASC Membership, that bangs it upto nearly £200, May aswell just take the DSC-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted January 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 The 'problem' is how this is misused by Firearms Departments, BASC and the BDS are providing courses for those wishing to learn, you only have to read some the posts on here and other forums to know there are quite a few that could do with that :blink: There is nothing new here it has all been done to death a million times before, the only remaining interesting part for me is the relative age of the responders (ignoring those with an agenda) Dunkield , shooting deer has never been rocket science , more shooting skill and a big dash of field craft . This can be learnt anywhere by anybody who wants to take up stalking . Some may wonder at the value of these courses that keep springing up and that come to the attention of the licencing athorities who we know are very keen to use these courses as obstacles for novice stalkers by making them attend these courses before they will grant a ticket ,which is of course all very naughty of them . As far as agenda's go there is one big hidden agenda that comes to mind and has been going on for several years know and that is the restriction of centre fire rifles to people in this country and for the control of shooting deer to come under the auspices of a charmed few . I do walk around with my eyes wide open and have done so for many years and have seen the change towards the licencing of all fire arms and shotguns . It gets harder and harder and harder . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 In this months BASC magazine . Another new course ,the pre-dsci course . How long before we have the pre-pre- dsci course . Just another nail in the novice stalkers coffin . It wont be long before shooting deer is well and truly out of the reach of the ordinary man in the street because of the prohibitive cost of courses that the police will insist on to grant a ticket for shooting deer . A cash cow ? proberbly . We are gentleman our own worst enemies . Harnser . Is that Probebly meaning definatly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Harnser, just to clarify I had you in the 'mature' pigeonhole not the 'agenda' pigeonhole I agree obtaining firearms is getting harder and harder, but so it getting a driving licence and many other things you and I could have got hold more easily years ago. It isn't anything new, the only reason I originally applied for an FAC was to get the piece of paper to use if I needed it before it got any harder, I had no intention of buying any rifles at the time - that was back in 2002. How about the scenario of someone who wants to get into rifle shooting, they want to shoot quarry so joining a target club is no good, they don't come from a shooting family and have no friends who shoot who could show them the ropes. They could, in theory, do this course without an FAC or a rifle and have a go at shooting. At the end of it they will have something recognisable to show their FLO if they want to carry on and apply for an FAC. How can that be a bad thing? The use and abuse of the courses by the Firearms Departments is the issue, not the courses themselves. If the courses weren't there they would still ask for mentoring or something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 I'm intrigued LS, What exactly does this Pre DSC-1 Course consist off ? A break down please First I've heard of it, another hoop for the budding Deer Stalker to jump through, Basically you go through the course material you would see on the DSC 1 course, videos slide shows etc of the different species of Deer, the law surrounding shooting them calibres, seasons, what to shoot and what not to shoot. Finally you go on the range and do the exact same shooting test as you do on the DSC 1 course and you get to have as many goes at it as you like without the pressure of it being a test so in reality its just a practise run of the DSC 1 course ie Pre DSC 1. All in all it was ok for someone like myself who knew nothing about Deer and have only ever seen Roe Deer you do learn stuff but nothing different to what you learn on the actual DSC 1 course itself. Hope this clears things up for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Basically you go through the course material you would see on the DSC 1 course, videos slide shows etc of the different species of Deer, the law surrounding shooting them calibres, seasons, what to shoot and what not to shoot. Finally you go on the range and do the exact same shooting test as you do on the DSC 1 course and you get to have as many goes at it as you like without the pressure of it being a test so in reality its just a practise run of the DSC 1 course ie Pre DSC 1. All in all it was ok for someone like myself who knew nothing about Deer and have only ever seen Roe Deer you do learn stuff but nothing different to what you learn on the actual DSC 1 course itself. Hope this clears things up for you. Hi LS, thanks for the reply.....that then just backs up my previous post then, IE;...you may aswell do the DSC-1 itself & be done with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted January 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Harnser, just to clarify I had you in the 'mature' pigeonhole not the 'agenda' pigeonhole I agree obtaining firearms is getting harder and harder, but so it getting a driving licence and many other things you and I could have got hold more easily years ago. It isn't anything new, the only reason I originally applied for an FAC was to get the piece of paper to use if I needed it before it got any harder, I had no intention of buying any rifles at the time - that was back in 2002. How about the scenario of someone who wants to get into rifle shooting, they want to shoot quarry so joining a target club is no good, they don't come from a shooting family and have no friends who shoot who could show them the ropes. They could, in theory, do this course without an FAC or a rifle and have a go at shooting. At the end of it they will have something recognisable to show their FLO if they want to carry on and apply for an FAC. How can that be a bad thing? The use and abuse of the courses by the Firearms Departments is the issue, not the courses themselves. If the courses weren't there they would still ask for mentoring or something else. Dunkield , I know exactly where you are coming from and I must agree with you that the misuse of these available stalking courses by the licencing departments is a travasity and should be challenged . I have no objection to any body taking these courses and yes it will stand them in good stead when applying for a grant .Its just a crying shame that some constabularies insist on these courses as a matter of course for a grant . Yes you are proberbly right ,I am at the mature end of the tree . Any thing that is made compulsory for little or no reason with out any consultation really gets up my nose . Harnser . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Hi LS, thanks for the reply.....that then just backs up my previous post then, IE;...you may aswell do the DSC-1 itself & be done with it. Exactly wish I knew that back then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 DSC's are there for one purpose,and one purpose only,and that is the gathering of revenue.Having a DSC is no guarantee of being successful in gaining a FAc application,nor is it a guarantee of being able to shoot deer.DSC's were instigated by our shooting organisations as a means to make money,and it will backfire on the average bloke before long.Already police licensing authorities are citing DSC's as a pre-requisite for certain centre-fires,and some are insisting 'mentoring' also,regardless of whether a DSC is held or not.It's just another hurdle to clear,and the annoying thing about it is,that it was the shooting org's that we pay membership to that have created the hurdle.Wouldn't the org's just love it if DSC's became compulsory!Luvely jubbly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy1403 Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 when i applied for my FAC i put in for a 22LR 17HMR and a 223 for fox. i was allright with the first 2 but for the 223 i had to either have a mentor or do a course. i rang FEO to see if the pre-dsc1 was ok he said yes done course condition removed. it wasn`t the cost of the course that i choose the pre 1 it was the days off work. 1 day for the pre-dsc or 3 days for the dsc1 so cost wise it was much better for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 DSC's are there for one purpose,and one purpose only,and that is the gathering of revenue Didn't have to wait that long for an 'agena' response then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsm1968 Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 IMHO One day land owners will start insisting on DSC qualified shooters only, so they can tick the boxes with insurance,anti's, ramblers and any other body that feels they have a right to question what happens on his land. It will be yet another "cover your '*****" move to keep office jockeys happy. When it does happen, everybody will be queing to do the course. Personaly, I haven't and won't as I allready have enough of a paper trail to qualify for an open cert with large cal. on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 You already need to be qualified to DSC level 2 to shoot on Forestry Commission land for precisely that reason. Maybe BASC/BDS have cut them in on their dirty little money making scam eh? :yp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 You already need to be qualified to DSC level 2 to shoot on Forestry Commission land for precisely that reason. Maybe BASC/BDS have cut them in on their dirty little money making scam eh? :yp: maybe that will change as they work out they haven't got the money to spend millions on people to cull deer. Most landowners haven't got a clue about DSC and qualifications etc and don't forget shooters usually carry their own insurance anyway so its not a farm issue. Of course were our shooting organisations to require qualifications before they would insure us then the fur would fly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 You already need to be qualified to DSC level 2 to shoot on Forestry Commission land for precisely that reason. Maybe BASC/BDS have cut them in on their dirty little money making scam eh? :yp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 How about the scenario of someone who wants to get into rifle shooting, they want to shoot quarry so joining a target club is no good, they don't come from a shooting family and have no friends who shoot who could show them the ropes. They could, in theory, do this course without an FAC or a rifle and have a go at shooting. At the end of it they will have something recognisable to show their FLO if they want to carry on and apply for an FAC. How can that be a bad thing? The use and abuse of the courses by the Firearms Departments is the issue, not the courses themselves. If the courses weren't there they would still ask for mentoring or something else. I couldn't agree more. How can such a qualification ever be a bad thing? Furthering yourself is something we should all strive to do, going out alone or with a mentor who's doing it his way might not be the best way. To be good at anything you need theory and practice, the DSC courses seem to offer that. Personally I can't think of anything worse than handing out ANY firearm to someone with no experience. Even a .22RF. If they don't know anyone to take them out how will they gain experience. I could take a new shooter out and they could tell the police that, but who's to say I'm doing it right? I passed my driving test at 17, and enrolled for my advanced driving test at 18, I wanted to be better and training progressed me further and faster than I would have done going it alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 How about the scenario of someone who wants to get into rifle shooting, they want to shoot quarry so joining a target club is no good, they don't come from a shooting family and have no friends who shoot who could show them the ropes. They could, in theory, do this course without an FAC or a rifle and have a go at shooting. At the end of it they will have something recognisable to show their FLO if they want to carry on and apply for an FAC. How can that be a bad thing? The use and abuse of the courses by the Firearms Departments is the issue, not the courses themselves. If the courses weren't there they would still ask for mentoring or something else. That was more or less my scenario, member of 2 target clubs but no access to stalking at all so did the course off my own back to educate myself before going on paid stalks. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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