Countryside Alliance

[OCD]

OCD at least you got a reply. But then as their web site clearly shows when it comes to promoting countryside issues shooting is very much a minor concern for the CA.

 

It was my intention to show just that but to be fair it is clear for all to see

[MC]

AL4x,

 

You keep harping on about how BASC have wildfowling stitched up. You have this the wrong way round.

BASC was formed by wildfowlers, It was WAGBI long before it was BASC. They are the only organisation to support the sport of wildfowling unequivocally so why shouldn't wildfowlers put their support in one place?

 

BASC support the wildfowling clubs of GB and Ireland in so many ways, buying land is one of them. As they have their own dedicated wildfowling team.

 

The CA can only hope to come close, but they never will.

[David BASC]

Scully, fair enough!

 

Charlie,

Having first joined the BFSS many years before I joined BASC I have no doubt as to the activities of the BFSS and CA in shooting fishing and hunting over the years. I think, and someone will correct me if I am wrong, the BFSS was set up before WAGBI

 

As you say and as we know BASC is purely a shooting organisation , with an emphasis very much on live quarry shooting, and our list of our five prime objectives shows what we are all about, that’s the top and bottom of it

 

The CA rural manifesto, which I assume is effectively the CA’s statement of their prime objectives is not there just to promote non field sports issues, it specifically mentions country pursuits and so it jolly well should! It clearly reads;

‘Country pursuits - Repeal the Hunting Act and champion country pursuits’

 

The point I am making above is that BASC and he CA are different organisations, and thus unlikely to merge as per Al4x’s comment. That is all.

 

The list of CA objectives etc within the rural manifesto is a copy from their web site, I have not deliberately missed off shooing or indeed fishing, it’s simply not mentioned on their list of objectives, under countryside pursuits but hunting specifically is.

 

I could not agree more that the CA certainly do operate across the remit of countryside issues as we can see from their lists of campaigns what they are active on at the moment. Just like on the BASC web site under Key Issues you can see the campaigns and projects BASC is active in at the moment.

 

I have no desire to engage in a slanging match, I admit I was very angry about the CA’s ad campaign which in my view was blatantly targeting BASC members, and their visiting of some BASC clubs and syndicates asking them to join the CA as it was cheaper, and I have bit my tongue on this for almost a year, but the last straw for me was when I found out their telesales campaign was making inaccurate statements about the BASC liability policy – yes I was very cross and I got if off my chest – and frankly I would expect David T to react in much the same way if I ran the same sort of campaigns.

 

David T and I may disagree on some issues, but we are still on the same side

 

As I asked very early on is the CA looking to diversify their shooting activities into specific shooting disciplines or maintain the broad brush approach? In my view to try and set up and develop discipline specific shooting departments in the CA would be difficult and expensive, and as David T says there are no plans for the CA to carbon copy any existing shooting organisation – so I assume the plan is to maintain the broad brush approach – makes sense.

 

My other point, which seems to have been lost, is that other shooting organisations have a greater knowledge and resources I suggest in their area of expertise. Hence from a media and lobbying point of view would it not make sense for the NRA, or CPSA or BASC, or NSRA or NGO etc to take the lead on those discipline specific issues either alone or with in combination with others, with the CA supporting these from the broader ‘effect on the overall rural way of life / economy’ angle? i.e. attacking the threat from different angles, working as a team, playing to our individual strengths. I think it’s a good idea, others may disagree.

 

As any of you who look back at my posts you will see I post in my own time , evenings and weekends and public holidays, as well as in work time.

 

David

Edited February 17, 2011 by David BASC

[mudpatten]

Charlie, you`re still smokescreening. In fact you seem unable to stop doing it.

 

No matter. CA Dave seems to have gone home for the night so we can all sit back and await the morrow and his answers to all the questions raised earlier today.

 

In fact, now might be a good time for some of the team running interference for the CA to get whatever issues currently concern them off their chests to give CA Dave a clear and uninterrupted run at it in the morning.

 

Many will have noticed that Charlie T and a14x have actually posted more than CA Dave who`s definitive answers have become fewer and fewer and are increasingly vague.

 

Lots of smoke and more than a few mirrors. Nothing new from the CA there then!

[Cookiemonsterandmerlin.]

Or has CA Dave got better things to with his time than having a ding bing with the BASC rep like defending our side and being more constructive with his time.

 

Cheers OTH

[David BASC]

I evidently can't please all the people all the time.

 

I am sure DavidT is making very good use of his time as I am. But how and when I post has waht to do with this thread?

 

David

[MC]

Or has CA Dave got better things to with his time than having a ding bing with the BASC rep like defending our side and being more constructive with his time.

 

Cheers OTH

 

 

Yes I am sure that is what he is doing,

 

My guess is he is as committed to shooting as the CA are and does a 9 to 5 job

[fruitloop]

why dont ca and basc and all the other organisations talk and support each other as a voice of shooting and field sports i dont mean buy merging but as uniterd front if that happend maybe we might get things done that needs doing me as one would be willing to suport both if it ment this otherwise its a dead duck

Edited February 17, 2011 by fruitloop

[Cookiemonsterandmerlin.]

It is very clear there is some issues within shooting yes PW is good place to gauge shooting pepoles feeling on subjects .

 

But I also if I was a member of the BASC be intrested how my percentage of my membership that makes up your salary was spent .

 

And if that percentage was used to allow a BASC employee to engaged in open internet warfare with the CA REP ,was that employee using his paid hours at the BASC construtively in doing so.

 

Thats the only reason I asked David.

 

Sorry guys a bit of on a tangent to the topic.

 

Cheers OTH

[Paddy Galore!]

i cannot see why thay can not work together as a united front to help the sport insted of bickering among ourselfs

 

or its devide and conker

CONKER???

[Scully]

CONKER???

Nice contribution gram 71,the spelling may not be spot on,but the sentiment was.

[fruitloop]

CONKER???

sorry but spelling is not my strong point

[Cookiemonsterandmerlin.]

I say old boy our insurance is better than yours .

 

I smash your conker old boy if you keep on talking like that as Ive got a bigger conker than you

 

Come on lets talk like grown men and kiss and make up with a kiss

 

 

Cheers OTH

[al4x]

AL4x,

 

You keep harping on about how BASC have wildfowling stitched up. You have this the wrong way round.

BASC was formed by wildfowlers, It was WAGBI long before it was BASC. They are the only organisation to support the sport of wildfowling unequivocally so why shouldn't wildfowlers put their support in one place?

 

BASC support the wildfowling clubs of GB and Ireland in so many ways, buying land is one of them. As they have their own dedicated wildfowling team.

 

The CA can only hope to come close, but they never will.

 

 

its the same thing wagbi or BASC its so well covered that the CA rightly isn't being drawn into attempting to. OTH you are indeed probably right you actually do more for your organisation not having a slanging match than doing so in public

[Glenshooter]

why dont ca and basc and all the other organisations talk and support each other as a voice of shooting and field sports i dont mean buy merging but as uniterd front if that happend maybe we might get things done that needs doing me as one would be willing to suport both if it ment this otherwise its a dead duck

 

It's a bit hard to act in a united way when a hunting organisation openly tries to poach members from a shooting organisation when it didn't have anyone full time supporting shooting or shooters. I really don't understand why shooters would pay similar subscription fees to an organisation that clearly is not dedicated to shooting but wants more members in order to support their other activities, and are prepared to poach from a shooting organisation sometimes with half truths and downright untruths.

 

BASC and CA are similar in size around the 100,000 - 130,000 membership size. BASC has 110 staff who concentrate almost totally on shooting and CA had none, until David T was employed a few months ago to give a total of 1 person.

 

As a BASC member, I have been approached by the CA to join them (sometime last year) and they did suggest that their package was better than BASC for shooters. That was obviously a load of bull. And on the 2 or 3 occasions when I have visited the CA stand at a game fair, there wasn't a gun in sight.

 

But is is good to hear that CA now supports people shooting foxes. That's a big change on a year or so ago when they were clearly anti-fox shooting.

 

But I would like an organisation to have somewhat more resources towards shooting than one member of staff before they are pitching themselves as an organisation worthy of £60 a year from shooters. Especially when for another £6, you can get the big guns of the BASC to help on any shooting related issue you might have. And it appears that David BASC sees his job as 24/7.

 

Why don't CA concentrate on their core areas, repealing the foxhunting ban and countryside issues like pubs and post offices? And let other organisations concentrate on their core areas.

[al4x]

how did they approach you Glenshooter?

[webber]

It's a bit hard to act in a united way when a hunting organisation openly tries to poach members from a shooting organisation when it didn't have anyone full time supporting shooting or shooters. I really don't understand why shooters would pay similar subscription fees to an organisation that clearly is not dedicated to shooting but wants more members in order to support their other activities, and are prepared to poach from a shooting organisation sometimes with half truths and downright untruths.

 

BASC and CA are similar in size around the 100,000 - 130,000 membership size. BASC has 110 staff who concentrate almost totally on shooting and CA had none, until David T was employed a few months ago to give a total of 1 person.

 

As a BASC member, I have been approached by the CA to join them (sometime last year) and they did suggest that their package was better than BASC for shooters. That was obviously a load of bull. And on the 2 or 3 occasions when I have visited the CA stand at a game fair, there wasn't a gun in sight.

 

But is is good to hear that CA now supports people shooting foxes. That's a big change on a year or so ago when they were clearly anti-fox shooting.

 

But I would like an organisation to have somewhat more resources towards shooting than one member of staff before they are pitching themselves as an organisation worthy of £60 a year from shooters. Especially when for another £6, you can get the big guns of the BASC to help on any shooting related issue you might have. And it appears that David BASC sees his job as 24/7.

 

Why don't CA concentrate on their core areas, repealing the foxhunting ban and countryside issues like pubs and post offices? And let other organisations concentrate on their core areas.

 

That seems to sum the situation up quite well.

 

webber

[al4x]

so what about if you live in the country go fishing, watch the odd hunt visit the odd point to point and also shoot. It would appear they do offer something better

[Cookiemonsterandmerlin.]

It's a bit hard to act in a united way when a hunting organisation openly tries to poach members from a shooting organisation when it didn't have anyone full time supporting shooting or shooters. I really don't understand why shooters would pay similar subscription fees to an organisation that clearly is not dedicated to shooting but wants more members in order to support their other activities, and are prepared to poach from a shooting organisation sometimes with half truths and downright untruths.

 

BASC and CA are similar in size around the 100,000 - 130,000 membership size. BASC has 110 staff who concentrate almost totally on shooting and CA had none, until David T was employed a few months ago to give a total of 1 person.

 

As a BASC member, I have been approached by the CA to join them (sometime last year) and they did suggest that their package was better than BASC for shooters. That was obviously a load of bull. And on the 2 or 3 occasions when I have visited the CA stand at a game fair, there wasn't a gun in sight.

 

But is is good to hear that CA now supports people shooting foxes. That's a big change on a year or so ago when they were clearly anti-fox shooting.

 

But I would like an organisation to have somewhat more resources towards shooting than one member of staff before they are pitching themselves as an organisation worthy of £60 a year from shooters. Especially when for another £6, you can get the big guns of the BASC to help on any shooting related issue you might have. And it appears that David BASC sees his job as 24/7.

 

Why don't CA concentrate on their core areas, repealing the foxhunting ban and countryside issues like pubs and post offices? And let other organisations concentrate on their core areas.

 

Wonderfully worded you worthy of being the face of BASC on PW ,also though there is no harm in the CA trying to diversify into offering the shooters more and work towards that area building and becoming stronger but at this point in time it is clear they have not got the resources in place to challange the polices being put forward threating our sport and country way of life in the shooting sector.

But great grow from little acorns .

 

Cheers OTH

Edited February 17, 2011 by Over the hill

[Glenshooter]

...also though there is no harm in the CA trying to diversify into offering the shooters more and work towards that area building and becoming stronger but at this point in time it is clear they have not got the resources in place to challange the polices being put forward threating our sport and country way of life in the shooting sector.

But great grow from little acorns .

 

Cheers OTH

 

But why should we shooters have to pay a significant membership fee for an almost complete lack of shooting expertise in the meantime. And this is not meant to question David T in the slightest. It's just that there needs to be David T x25 before they/CA are above critical mass.

 

How about getting the horse/fox hunting people in the CA to build an organisation with decent shooting resources first before they suggest that they can 'offer the shooters more'? Because at the minute, I don't see what they are offering.

 

Little acorns take a long time to grow into oak trees. And if you have a nasty licensing issue in the meantime or a problem with something related to shooting, you need an organisation with resources at that particular point in time.

 

I know, because I did. And BASC were highly effective.

 

That's why I am now an enthusiastic supporter of BASC.

[Glenshooter]

how did they approach you Glenshooter?

 

Once by phone (sometime last year) and once at a game fair probably the previous year. - That was the time when the chap I was speaking to nearly had a fit when I said that my main field shooting was fox shooting.

 

And I know David T now says that they 'support' shooting foxes. That's one hell of a change of attitude.

[Glenshooter]

so what about if you live in the country go fishing, watch the odd hunt visit the odd point to point and also shoot. It would appear they do offer something better

 

 

Er, I do (all the above).

 

But they, and I guess you mean the CA, don't offer anything better for 2 reasons, IMHO.

 

1) I don't need an organisation that 'protects/supports/advises' me when I fish or watch point to point.

 

2) But I sure as hell need an organistaion that can help me if there's a risk of a firearms issue. Don't want to be too dramatic, but (a possibility of) 5 yrs behind bars is something I'd rather avoid due to the ability of getting good advice on firearms law from BASC.

[David BASC]

I can assure you that BASC values forums greatly, I have said this in the past, so being in charge of marketing its valuable for me to engage with grass roots shooters - thats part of my job. i have no doubt DavidT will find them of value too

 

With over 15 years experience in the industry and over 30 years of shooting, I guess I have developed clear / strong views on the best way forward.

 

As i have posted above, I see this being by way of cooperation,accepting that some of us have different skills but together we can make an unbeatable team.

 

Thats my plan, its already coming together and thats what i will stick to -

 

DavidT , with your input will build his plans for the CA, and it may well be worth mentioning fishing and shooting, as well as hunting, in the rural manifesto David.

Sincerely

 

David

[al4x]

Once by phone (sometime last year) and once at a game fair probably the previous year. - That was the time when the chap I was speaking to nearly had a fit when I said that my main field shooting was fox shooting.

 

And I know David T now says that they 'support' shooting foxes. That's one hell of a change of attitude.

 

 

At least that answered that I assume you were an ex member if they had your number?

[mudpatten]

Hi A14x, you`re up early!

 

Presumably you are lighting todays bonfire. I`m sure you know this alrady but a sure way to make huge amounts of smoke is to burn lots of green timber and leaves.

 

We look forward to peering at you through the murk whilst we await the arrival of CA Dave who will doubtless put all our fears to rest with a clear statement of the direction the CA plans to take.