Highlander Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 If you have any interest in pigeon/crow shooting then I urge you to read this BASC article and DO SOMETHING! You all get on here spouting on and on about inane subjects with little or no connection to shooting but when it comes to doing something about the shooting we all enjoy you’ve all got your heads up you’re a*****. You can bet the anti’s aren’t so daft as to let an opportunity like this go by. If you doubt we could ever lose the shooting rights we enjoy then look to our European friends, they are losing shooting faster than you can say boo to a goose! There are over 20000 members on PIGEON WATCH a site dedicated to PIGEON SHOOTING! Do your bit! READ ON AND ACT! March April is an excellent time to focus on shooting and trapping members of the crow family. They are a threat to gamebirds but can also decimate nesting songbirds, so controlling them is an active conservation measure. But the general licence system - that's shooting pigeons and crows as you deem fit - under which you have the right to carry out pest control is under threat. Firstly civil servants are making the regulations prohibitively complicated. Secondly, individuals in some of the protectionist organisations are trying to have draconian conditions introduced and having pest species and methods removed from the general licences system. How can you help BASC counter these very real threats? During consultations the government typically gives equal weight to each response submitted. So, a response from BASC with 130,000 members is one viewpoint. A response from the RSPB, with one million members, is one viewpoint. And an individual's personal response is one viewpoint. That means your opinion carries as much weight as that of the RSPB. A few dozen conservation-minded shooters responding to the consultation would certainly provide a healthy dose of common sense to counter the handwringing rubbish spouted by the protectionists. Hundreds of thousands of us shoot pigeons and crows. Shockingly, only 36 people submitted their views to a 2009 general licences consultation in England and in Wales it was even fewer. BASC and the National Gamekeepers' Organisation had only one voice each among those responses. What happened? In both counffies, some of the gull species were removed from most of the general licences, as had been originally proposed. There was an outcry from shooters afterwards, with lots of comment on shooting discussion forums and in letters to the sporting press. If half that energy could have been devoted to responding to the consultations themselves the outcome might have been very different. This year there could be another consultation on general licences. BASC will be calling on your help and we hope that members will respond by getting involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiemonsterandmerlin. Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Great post to highlight this threat well done Cookie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Good work well pointed out that man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 How many of us responded to the HASC enquiry? i bet it wasn't that many. It doesn't matter if you don't think you can write well, what matters is you write! Get motivated and support our sport whenever there is a call to respond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted February 28, 2011 Report Share Posted February 28, 2011 Dear All, every year we (BASC) respond to government dept. consultations that could impact shooting, lest year it was 50 - yep just about 1 a week... The open General licence is key to ALL of us - so please do help out and please keep an eye on the BASC home page. Thanks a million to Highlander for putting up the post, I am on leave at the mo for a couple of days trying to catch up with all sorts of things at home so I am a bit behind on PW postings! Great teamwork H, a personal thank you from me David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted March 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 David Thank you for the encouragement but why me??? It’s all well and good reading about this stuff AFTER the event and reading Conor O’Gorman’s comments in the BASC mag about the ‘outcry from the shooting community afterwards’ but how many of us actually knew about the consultations going on. Did BASC (or indeed any other organization) advertise the fact? Were we, the shooting community, ever informed, advised or encouraged to participate? I for one was oblivious to it and I like to think I keep abreast of matters shooting so what hope for others who have little idea what day of the week it is let alone what’s going on behind the scenes with their chosen sports. My take on the matter is this; BASC and/or other responsible organizations should be promoting these consultations that require ‘numbers’ to participate in. Use the shooting press and any other media that’s to hand (like this forum and others) to let the shooting community know what’s going on BEFORE it happens and encourage people to take part. I know you did with the recent consultation process about firearms legislation but this General License stuff happens every year and should be of major importance to all of us. I know many people on here have difficulty in stringing a sensible sentence together so maybe you could help them along and offer some ideas about ‘how to’ respond to such consultation processes. If one individual response really does carry as much weight as the RSPB then in my book USE IT, don’t LOSE IT! On a brighter note I see the RSPB are (almost) admitting to a correlation between predator control and songbird/wader survival rates. Shame if we lose the legal right to carry out such control just when the opposition are possibly seeing the light! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Could we not have a standard drafted letter that we could sign and send off? or does this approach not work?. If the work is done for the majority of us that cannot quite get round to writing or feel that we do not have the ability to construct a meaningful response. I am sure we could print it off sign it, and post it, and who knows may even amend it a little. As long as we can input our name and address, this must surely help our cause, and of course it would be done at the right and most important time, not missing the date. bakerboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vampire Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Could we not have a standard drafted letter that we could sign and send off? or does this approach not work?. If the work is done for the majority of us that cannot quite get round to writing or feel that we do not have the ability to construct a meaningful response. I am sure we could print it off sign it, and post it, and who knows may even amend it a little. As long as we can input our name and address, this must surely help our cause, and of course it would be done at the right and most important time, not missing the date. bakerboy +1 good post So who do we write to and what are we saying,if BASC are so good and need our help, then help us to help you to help us,or we will all lose out,us vermin shooters are not part of a big syndicate and most are just individuals who enjoy shooting and would help support the cause,communication is everything,make it simple for us and you may get the support you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batch Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Start drafting up that letter Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Could we not have a standard drafted letter that we could sign and send off? or does this approach not work?. My understanding is that these standard letters have much less clout at best, and possibly ignored at worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yickdaz Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 David Thank you for the encouragement but why me??? It’s all well and good reading about this stuff AFTER the event and reading Conor O’Gorman’s comments in the BASC mag about the ‘outcry from the shooting community afterwards’ but how many of us actually knew about the consultations going on. Did BASC (or indeed any other organization) advertise the fact? Were we, the shooting community, ever informed, advised or encouraged to participate? I for one was oblivious to it and I like to think I keep abreast of matters shooting so what hope for others who have little idea what day of the week it is let alone what’s going on behind the scenes with their chosen sports. between predator control and songbird/wader survival rates. Shame if we lose the legal right to carry out such control just when the opposition are possibly seeing the light! second that.. we do need to know in advance before any changes are to be debated;i get a copy of sporting gun every month and recieve the basc magazine and i;m on this site everday but was still unaware of the threats pointed out by highlander. my response to basc is simply inform us of whats going on before hand so we can get behind it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) I agree some kind of email or letter from basc before hand would help us get behind these issues :)Or an e- newsletter which would save paper and costs . Edited March 1, 2011 by mpk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) My understanding is that these standard letters have much less clout at best, and possibly ignored at worst. If the letter is personalised by way of name and address, it takes it away from being a standard mass produced and posted letter. It demonstrates that the person has taken the time to read and agree the contents. A well thought out and worded response, that would allow for the sender to amend in some small way, if felt fit, would of course add to the weight of this campain No one puts there name to something they do not agree with. bakerboy Edited March 1, 2011 by bakerboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Good post from Highlander, but before we all go firing off letters to Natural England I think we need to have a little more information. But the general licence system - that's shooting pigeons and crows as you deem fit - under which you have the right to carry out pest control is under threat. Firstly civil servants are making the regulations prohibitively complicated. Secondly, individuals in some of the protectionist organisations are trying to have draconian conditions introduced and having pest species and methods removed from the general licences system. Exactly HOW are civil servants making the regs 'prohibitively complicated' and WHAT exactly are the 'draconian conditions' that are spoken about? It would be impossible to lobby against any of the changes mentioned when we don't even know what's being proposed. It's all very well BASC asking us to get behind them and get our voices heard but it would help if they were a little more forthcoming with information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_T Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 If the letter is personalised by way of name and address, it takes it away from being a standard mass produced and posted letter. It demonstrates that the person has taken the time to read and agree the contents. A well thought out and worded response, that would allow for the sender to amend in some small way, if felt fit, would of course add to the weight of this campain No one puts there name to something they do not agree with. bakerboy I think this is a good idea. If a template letter was available to personalise and send in this would deal with the general inertia to putting pen to paper. Maybe BASC could help here? Let's hope BASC will keep us posted in a timely manner. Cheers, Dr_T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 As I said, keep an eye on the web site etc and of course i will post on here as and hwen we want more help. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 How many of us responded to the HASC enquiry? i bet it wasn't that many. It doesn't matter if you don't think you can write well, what matters is you write! Get motivated and support our sport whenever there is a call to respond. In answer to that,less than 1000 of us reponded to the HASc enquiry out of over 300,000!And in truth,less than that,because I know of several who submitted two different letters,including myself. I know from experience that 'stock' letters do not carry the same weight as an individually drafted letter,but each is supposed to be answered(still waiting for mine following the HASC enquiry!) ,but again from experience,it will be by way of a 'stock' reply. It doesn't matter if you can't spell,it's the intent and commitment(rather than the content)that matters.Be forceful but polite,but above all,GET IT DONE. But (again from experience)I wont be holding my breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark@mbb Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 As I said, keep an eye on the web site etc and of course i will post on here as and hwen we want more help. David I dont think a template letter is needed just a template address so we can all send our own letters mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albertan_J Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 a template is just a start for us all to personalize as we see fit. That's wgat I did with the basc template for the hasc enquiry sent to my local mp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBL Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 In answer to that,less than 1000 of us reponded to the HASc enquiry out of over 300,000! each is supposed to be answered(still waiting for mine following the HASC enquiry!) I'm with Scully on this; I sent in my letter and believe it was one of around 950. Although I was very saddened by this response level and the seeming lack of interest, to put it in context, I believe most Home Affairs consultations of a similar nature receive 40 or less submissions. Still a poor show in my opinion thoug - for the sake of 30 mins of time most of us could realistically find without too much trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerboy Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 I'm with Scully on this; I sent in my letter and believe it was one of around 950. Although I was very saddened by this response level and the seeming lack of interest, to put it in context, I believe most Home Affairs consultations of a similar nature receive 40 or less submissions. Still a poor show in my opinion thoug - for the sake of 30 mins of time most of us could realistically find without too much trouble. It would appear the other 19,000 of us could not find the 30 minutes :no: which goes to prove we need all the help and assistance we can get , if we do not try it we will not know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC45 Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 It would appear the other 19,000 of us could not find the 30 minutes :no: which goes to prove we need all the help and assistance we can get , if we do not try it we will not know I bet there are not 19000 active members, how many accounts have been inactive for the last six months? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankbrickbats Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Is The Countryside Aliance having any in put on this subject. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Coming back to what Highlander said, I can assure you there will be a consolation some time soon so it would be very useful to know what issues you guys think should be raised? David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilR Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 Coming back to what Highlander said, I can assure you there will be a consolation some time soon so it would be very useful to know what issues you guys think should be raised? David Hi David, I would guess you mean consultation? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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