Minimum accuracy .22lr

[dadioles]

i do not consider a range finder to be an essential piece of equiptment.

my most essential piece of equiptment is me and my fieldcraft skills.

its about putting yourself against your quarry and battling it out. sometimes you win sometimes you dont. now wouldnt it be unsporting and dull if we won all the time??

 

You are right about the need to develop your skills.

 

Because I shoot in a wide variety of places I find it difficult sometimes to estimate distance and when I am shooting outside the "flat" range of either my .22 or my hmr I really do need the assistance of a rangefinder. 10 yards here or there can mean an inch up or down, that is critical.

 

If you know your land really well and can accurately guage distance then perhaps a rangefinder is less essential. Maybe al your shooting is reliably between 40 and 60 yards, or whatever, but push the boundaries a bit further ands a lot changes.

 

Your comment "sometimes you win sometimes you don't" is slightly concerning as it implies a lack of respect for your quarry and a rather hit and miss attitude which makes you likely to wound rather than kill.

 

In my view you should do absolutely everything you can to shoot accurately and ensure a clean kill every time. Of course there will be misses and woundings but these should be rare and hopefully not as the result of your bad judgement.

[The Duncan]

i do not consider a range finder to be an essential piece of equiptment. i have never used one so does this mean i should consider line dancing???my most essential piece of equiptment is me and my fieldcraft skills. it's these abbilities which should be honed first not buying fancy rangefinders and technology to do the job for us as that is not hunting in my opinion. its about putting yourself against your quarry and battling it out. sometimes you win sometimes you dont. now wouldnt it be unsporting and dull if we won all the time??

Don't knock it til you've tried it

[Dekers]

That's why this bit was there!

 

A range finder or very good distance judgement IS required for ANY calibre shooting. So to is knowledge of what your calibre/round will do!

 

It isn't guess work in the field it is practice/experience/technology, and if anyone can't be bothered with any or all of that, then they should give up shooting and consider Line Dancing (or knitting or...)!

 

Cheers!

 

 

i do not consider a range finder to be an essential piece of equiptment. i have never used one so does this mean i should consider line dancing???

my most essential piece of equiptment is me and my fieldcraft skills. it's these abbilities which should be honed first not buying fancy rangefinders and technology to do the job for us as that is not hunting in my opinion. its about putting yourself against your quarry and battling it out. sometimes you win sometimes you dont. now wouldnt it be unsporting and dull if we won all the time??

 

I think you just repeated what I said...and I don't have a range finder either!

[kent]

You are right about the need to develop your skills.

 

Because I shoot in a wide variety of places I find it difficult sometimes to estimate distance and when I am shooting outside the "flat" range of either my .22 or my hmr I really do need the assistance of a rangefinder. 10 yards here or there can mean an inch up or down, that is critical.

 

If you know your land really well and can accurately guage distance then perhaps a rangefinder is less essential. Maybe al your shooting is reliably between 40 and 60 yards, or whatever, but push the boundaries a bit further ands a lot changes.

 

Your comment "sometimes you win sometimes you don't" is slightly concerning as it implies a lack of respect for your quarry and a rather hit and miss attitude which makes you likely to wound rather than kill.

 

In my view you should do absolutely everything you can to shoot accurately and ensure a clean kill every time. Of course there will be misses and woundings but these should be rare and hopefully not as the result of your bad judgement.

 

exeeding the range envolope is the biggest cause of woundings, if it be cfire on fox and deer, shotguns on high pheasant and distant duck or as in this case .22 lr and rabbits. Range finders only give you so much information and perhaps we would be better using this information as to when to decline taking the shot until we stalk close enough to not need such devices. Talk about lack of respect for quarry in others yet at the same time treat them as long range target practice ?

[vampire]

But what about my query regarding the trajectory?

Zeroing at 80 and then getting an inch high at 50 and and inch low at 100 just does not sound possible, magic bullets?.

 

The drop reported by Norfolk Poacher is much closer to what I experience.

 

Vampire - you zero at 65 but I reckon you must be an inch high at 50 and more than an inch low at 80, not "bang on" unless you consider a greater than 2" group to be bang on.

 

Please don't misunderstand me, I am neither looking for an argument or criticising anyones shooting but it does get confusing when people make statements that cannot really be all that accurate.

 

The first problem is estimating distance - without a laser measure one man's 75 yards is another man's 100 yards.

 

The second problem is perception of accuracy. A reliable head shot on a rabbit at 80 yards with a .22lr firing subs is a whole different ball game to a body shot. The first needs the ability to accurately group, say, 1" at 80 yards (pretty skilled), for a body shot a group of 2" to 3" at that distance is good enough (pretty average).

 

My guess is that you are successfully killing rabbits at reasonable distances so well done, that is good, but my guess is that it is more of a culling operation than accurate head shots to produce good meat for the table. Enjoy your shooting, there are just too many rabbits (smile).

I do not consider range finding by eye hard to do at the ranges i have stated,all my shooting is done on the same land every week,the same land i learnt with a pcp .177 air rifle,i have set the zero at the average range it is shot at,then found what the maximum range produces a kill before i have to raise it up a milldot,after that i wouldnt even bother for the sake of the quarry and the angle of trajectory almost guarantees a ricochet with a.22lr.

If it is 65yrds then its an eye shot and i have a freezer full of one eyed rabbits,it is when they are close that i have difficulty holding under at 40 yrds or closer,but then these oportunities are rare and i go back to why i have zeroed at 65yrds(all these ranges stated are STEPS/PACES and not measured with a tape).

I am very confident at these ranges with the cz and eley subs,i have experimented but stick with these for being accurate and quiet and all my shots are at night whilst lamping and the rifle is fully supported on the roof of the frontera.

I wish i could be so confident about my pigeon shooting as i am with the rifle,but after a quick lesson and some advice from 'hitclay' i hope this may improve,especially after he checked out my eye dominance which was about 300mm out,i now have something to work with,and i now have a gun that is a perfect fit.

I will have to learn longer ranges when i get the .223,and i am sure this is when i range finder may come in to its own.

[dadioles]

Kent said that "exeeding the range envolope is the biggest cause of woundings" and assuming that he means, broadly, outside the "flat" shooting range then I am sure that is correct. As soon as you have to start correcting for the fall of the bullet (holdover) any misjudgement of distance becomes critical.

 

We all have our own shooting styles. In my own case when out with the .22LR I have spent many hours shooting targets and have plotted accurately the exact trajectory of the CZ with same batch SK (Lapua) ammo (every gun / bullet combination will be different it is no good looking up charts, you have to make your own).

 

I am what you would call a slow shooter, a sort of sniper technique off bipod, I don't do stealth! (too old, too fat ) so I have time to check distance with the laser and then dial in an appropriate number of clicks. That gets me out to 120 yards on targets (33 clicks) with 5 shot groups at that distance of a shade over one inch. The drop is an enormous 13 inches at that range but accurate and reproduceable. I could never judge that as holdover and have to use clicks. My self imposed limit on live quarry is around 100 yards (23 clicks and 7 inch drop, 1 inch groups) Most of my rabbits are taken at 60 to 80 yards (60 = 5 clicks, 80 = 15 clicks - better than 1 inch groups). Zeroed at 50 with a 0.8" kill zone "flat shooting" from 16 to 56 yards (I take 0.8" as the size of rabbit brain).

 

One problem with subs at reasonable distances, say 100 yards, is the slow speed of travel of the bullet. Now and again I have had rabbits reacting to the sound of the shot and moving during the time it takes for the bullet to travel, it takes 1/3 sec to go 100 yards. Not a problem with HMR.

 

I do not consider range finding by eye hard to do at the ranges i have stated,all my shooting is done on the same land every week,the same land i learnt with a pcp .177 air rifle,i have set the zero at the average range it is shot at,then found what the maximum range produces a kill before i have to raise it up a milldot.... I am very confident at these ranges with the cz and eley subs,i have experimented but stick with these for being accurate and quiet and all my shots are at night whilst lamping and the rifle is fully supported on the roof of the frontera.

 

Absolutely right.... good on you. You know your land, you know your tools, you have practiced, you know your limits. One golf course I shoot is the same, I have a few favourite spots and have learned the distances.

 

Even with a rangefinder I cannot judge distance over an open featureless field, it is hopeless. The rabbit is too small for the rangefinder to pick out, there are no useful features and the angle is too shallow to rangefind off the ground. Using the scope at max mag the side focus gives a pretty good estimate but mostly I just leave them alone. Some people are skilled at judging distance by the apparent size of the rabbit, not me.

 

There are some brilliant and quite gifted shooters out there, they really do have skill, not luck.

[kent]

Kent said that "exeeding the range envolope is the biggest cause of woundings" and assuming that he means, broadly, outside the "flat" shooting range then I am sure that is correct. As soon as you have to start correcting for the fall of the bullet (holdover) any misjudgement of distance becomes critical.

 

Dadioles,

no i didn't mean that i meant what i said "exceeding the range envolope" winding in drop is the lest of the issues in long range shooting, calling the wind and its effect is far harder as is acounting for unexpected movement during bullet travel like you mention. If you fail to read the wind by 1" your looking at double or trebling that 1" group- as you say 1" out is a lot at those ranges. Now using a .223 for them rabbits you would still kill well with any main body shot and you might extend the range much further as you will get very few woundings due to the sheer hydrolic shock blowing the poor bunny up! with a .22 sub in the guts its going to be very different.

to re- iterrate and explain further i mentioned the shotgun and its use on overly distant targets the energy is still there to kill with the right loads - yet the wounding rate will be higher. it don't matter if mr Digweed can drop them beyond what we feel even possible his wounding rate on distant stuff will still be a lot higher than the ones he takes at 25 yds! this is not to critisse him!Its just a fact to make my point about exceeding the range envolope for any specific firearm IS THE MOST LIKELY way to create higher wounding rates, calling anyone else is like throwing stones in a greenhouse

[vmax55]

You are right about the need to develop your skills.

 

Because I shoot in a wide variety of places I find it difficult sometimes to estimate distance and when I am shooting outside the "flat" range of either my .22 or my hmr I really do need the assistance of a rangefinder. 10 yards here or there can mean an inch up or down, that is critical.

 

If you know your land really well and can accurately guage distance then perhaps a rangefinder is less essential. Maybe al your shooting is reliably between 40 and 60 yards, or whatever, but push the boundaries a bit further ands a lot changes.

 

Your comment "sometimes you win sometimes you don't" is slightly concerning as it implies a lack of respect for your quarry and a rather hit and miss attitude which makes you likely to wound rather than kill.

 

In my view you should do absolutely everything you can to shoot accurately and ensure a clean kill every time. Of course there will be misses and woundings but these should be rare and hopefully not as the result of your bad judgement.

 

in what way am i showing a lack of respect to my quarry??? i am not the guy needing to use a rangefinder for a .22lr!!! just read back what you have written " but push the boundaries a bit further and a lot changes " and tell me again who has a lack of respect for their quarry.

[dadioles]

in what way am i showing a lack of respect to my quarry??? i am not the guy needing to use a rangefinder for a .22lr!!! just read back what you have written " but push the boundaries a bit further and a lot changes " and tell me again who has a lack of respect for their quarry.

 

It was just in your wording, "sometimes you win, sometimes you lose" made it sound as though you were not too bothered, rather hit and miss. Sorry if you feel offended, it is a bit off to tease me with the comment "I am not the guy needing to use a rangefinder for a .22lr" but what the heck, using a rangefinder helps me to shoot accurately, you clearly don't need one, no problem. I prefer to "win" every time and feel annoyed with myself if I "lose". It is just the way I read your post.

 

Obviously I did not express myself too well either. By "pushing the boundaries" I mean that it is easy to shoot well and accurately at 50 yards but with practice you can gradually extend that range and the .22lr has accuracy and killing power at more than twice that distance, it just becomes a darned site harder and judging wind and drop (hardly significant at 50 yards) becomes the deciding factor. The drop is exactly proportional to distance, know the distance exactly and you know the drop. It is a "special" person that can judge the exact distance by eye at, say, 90 yards - I cannot - hence rangefinder. Maybe you are taking body shots (big target) or using stealth to get closer (good on you - I am just not designed for stealth), but head shots - every time - at extended distances need accurate rangefinding either by knowing your land, By using a high mag scope with side focus or by using a laser - I use all three methods.

 

The .22lr "flat" kill zone (for me) is between about 16 to 56 yards and on land that I am not familiar with I will use the rangefinder to get an idea of landmarks and see where the 56 yard line comes to. If the rabbit that I am aiming at is much beyond 60 yards I need to know quite accurately what the distance is as the bullet drop increases rapidly. It is because I have respect for the quarry that I want every shot to be a kill and in the case of reasonable sized rabbits I go for a head shot every time as they are for human consumption. Sadly, as the result of rabbit overpopulation, I am having to cull a fair number of baby rabbits, often body shots and then leaving them in the hedge for other wildlife to clear them away, it seems a bit of a waste but such is life.

 

By using a rangefinder - and because I have practised and worked hard with paper targets - I know that I can headshoot rabbits nearly every time out to 100 yards and when pushed and conditions are perfect at 120 yards, but only because I know the distance precisely (rangefinder) and I know the exact compensation needed (clicks) for the drop.

[Vince Green]

calling the wind and its effect is far harder

Best thing said so far

[wymberley]

It was just in your wording, "sometimes you win, sometimes you lose" made it sound as though you were not too bothered, rather hit and miss. Sorry if you feel offended, it is a bit off to tease me with the comment "I am not the guy needing to use a rangefinder for a .22lr" but what the heck, using a rangefinder helps me to shoot accurately, you clearly don't need one, no problem. I prefer to "win" every time and feel annoyed with myself if I "lose". It is just the way I read your post.

 

Obviously I did not express myself too well either. By "pushing the boundaries" I mean that it is easy to shoot well and accurately at 50 yards but with practice you can gradually extend that range and the .22lr has accuracy and killing power at more than twice that distance, it just becomes a darned site harder and judging wind and drop (hardly significant at 50 yards) becomes the deciding factor. The drop is exactly proportional to distance, know the distance exactly and you know the drop. It is a "special" person that can judge the exact distance by eye at, say, 90 yards - I cannot - hence rangefinder. Maybe you are taking body shots (big target) or using stealth to get closer (good on you - I am just not designed for stealth), but head shots - every time - at extended distances need accurate rangefinding either by knowing your land, By using a high mag scope with side focus or by using a laser - I use all three methods.

 

The .22lr "flat" kill zone (for me) is between about 16 to 56 yards and on land that I am not familiar with I will use the rangefinder to get an idea of landmarks and see where the 56 yard line comes to. If the rabbit that I am aiming at is much beyond 60 yards I need to know quite accurately what the distance is as the bullet drop increases rapidly. It is because I have respect for the quarry that I want every shot to be a kill and in the case of reasonable sized rabbits I go for a head shot every time as they are for human consumption. Sadly, as the result of rabbit overpopulation, I am having to cull a fair number of baby rabbits, often body shots and then leaving them in the hedge for other wildlife to clear them away, it seems a bit of a waste but such is life.

 

By using a rangefinder - and because I have practised and worked hard with paper targets - I know that I can headshoot rabbits nearly every time out to 100 yards and when pushed and conditions are perfect at 120 yards, but only because I know the distance precisely (rangefinder) and I know the exact compensation needed (clicks) for the drop.

Hi,

Of an age where I need all the help I can get! (Used to love driving at night, but can't/won't now as the old eyes just don't react quickly enough.)

Like you most of my rabbits are shot between 60 and 80 yards. Consequently, I zero at 70 but you go for 50. Why the 50?

Cheers

[dadioles]

Hi,

Of an age where I need all the help I can get! (Used to love driving at night, but can't/won't now as the old eyes just don't react quickly enough.)

Like you most of my rabbits are shot between 60 and 80 yards. Consequently, I zero at 70 but you go for 50. Why the 50?

Cheers

 

Hi Wymberley

 

I think I have got eyes of a similar age (to you I mean, not to each other).

 

You are right to question my zero range and I shall try and explain how it came about.

 

Originally I shot with an air rifle and 30 yards was a typical range for rabbits (nearer if I could - I was younger!).

 

Then I got a .17HMR and 100 yards seemed a heck of a long way away but I zeroed at that because it was what most people seemed to suggest.

 

This was followed by .22LR as it was quiet and well suited to night shooting where 50 yards (or nearer) was typical and a lot of people seemed to zero at 50 yards.

 

As my skills developed and I became more knowledgable (long family history of target shooting - stacks of medals and cups, ex RAF Uncle formerly employed at Bisley etc.) I started to use the .22 during the day rather more instead of the HMR but wanted to extend the distance as 50 was becoming limiting... waffle waffle.... Also played around with computer software "Chairgun Pro".

 

A bit of a geek I decided to plot my trajectory and see what the .22lr was capable of (5 shots each at targets from 20 to 150 yards at 10 yard intervals) played with chronometer, weighed bullets, all that stuff.

 

Anyway, it turned out that once I had worked out the true trajectory it did not fit any of the published charts (no surprises there) and tweaking Chairgun Pro to match my actual shooting results showed that a 55 yard zero would give me the best killzone and for some daft reason I rounded this to 50 yards simply because it seemed like a suitable round number - I should have stuck to 55 yards.

 

The curved trajectory is quite pronounced and by zeroing at 50 yards I can shoot with the cross hairs on target from 16 to 56 yards and know that the bullet will strike within a 0.8 inch circle. Wind has very little effect at that distance (I don't shoot in a gale) so my shooting is simple and straight forward.

 

If I increased the size of my kill zone I am increasing the chance of wounding or missing because in practical terms my groups are about half inch at 50 yards so you really need to add that error to the size of the kill zone so better to keep things conservative and tight.

 

After 60 yards things start to drop off rapidly and if I zeroed for 70 yards I am only "bang on" between about 65 and 75 yards and over 1" high at 50 so would have to apply some correction to almost every shot.

 

By zeroing at 50 (55 would be best) I have given myself the greatest distance where no holdover or holdunder is needed. Beyond 60 yards the fall off is so great that considerable compensation is needed and I do that by adjusting clicks on my scope so that the cross hairs are spot on for every distance between 60 and 120 yards. Measure distance, set clicks, bang. Slow, but the rabbits do just sit there and wait for me, and I don't miss.

 

The nice thing about the HMR over the .22lr is that by zeroing at 100 yards it is effectively flat shooting from 30 to 115 yards with no holdover or holdunder and because of the massive impact of the bullet with its hydraulic shock effect I increase the kill zone to 1" and at 120 yards just aim 1" high rather than mess around with clicks. Beyond 120 yards I am pretty good (on a still day) out to 200 yards with the HMR (adjusted with clicks).

 

Frankly, if noise is not too much of a problem, have you tried a .17HMR. It is a fantastic rifle for rabbits and similar small animals and the flat shooting range sounds perfect for your situation.

 

Best wishes....

[foxnet22]

some very good information enjoyed reading the comments from experienced shooters.well done lads.

[vmax55]

It was just in your wording, "sometimes you win, sometimes you lose" made it sound as though you were not too bothered, rather hit and miss. Sorry if you feel offended, it is a bit off to tease me with the comment "I am not the guy needing to use a rangefinder for a .22lr" but what the heck, using a rangefinder helps me to shoot accurately, you clearly don't need one, no problem. I prefer to "win" every time and feel annoyed with myself if I "lose". It is just the way I read your post.

 

Obviously I did not express myself too well either. By "pushing the boundaries" I mean that it is easy to shoot well and accurately at 50 yards but with practice you can gradually extend that range and the .22lr has accuracy and killing power at more than twice that distance, it just becomes a darned site harder and judging wind and drop (hardly significant at 50 yards) becomes the deciding factor. The drop is exactly proportional to distance, know the distance exactly and you know the drop. It is a "special" person that can judge the exact distance by eye at, say, 90 yards - I cannot - hence rangefinder. Maybe you are taking body shots (big target) or using stealth to get closer (good on you - I am just not designed for stealth), but head shots - every time - at extended distances need accurate rangefinding either by knowing your land, By using a high mag scope with side focus or by using a laser - I use all three methods.

 

The .22lr "flat" kill zone (for me) is between about 16 to 56 yards and on land that I am not familiar with I will use the rangefinder to get an idea of landmarks and see where the 56 yard line comes to. If the rabbit that I am aiming at is much beyond 60 yards I need to know quite accurately what the distance is as the bullet drop increases rapidly. It is because I have respect for the quarry that I want every shot to be a kill and in the case of reasonable sized rabbits I go for a head shot every time as they are for human consumption. Sadly, as the result of rabbit overpopulation, I am having to cull a fair number of baby rabbits, often body shots and then leaving them in the hedge for other wildlife to clear them away, it seems a bit of a waste but such is life.

 

By using a rangefinder - and because I have practised and worked hard with paper targets - I know that I can headshoot rabbits nearly every time out to 100 yards and when pushed and conditions are perfect at 120 yards, but only because I know the distance precisely (rangefinder) and I know the exact compensation needed (clicks) for the drop.

 

no offence taken nor itended. i just do not have the time nor desire for the use of a rangefinder and have seen no need for one. my .22 is in constant daily use and as a result i know it like the back of my hand and can shoot it quickly and accuratly as a result. a rangefinder would merely slow me down and by the time i'd checked the range and adjusted my sights the quarry would of changed position or spotted me flecking about with and ruggered off. i'm not knocking them as im sure they are great for target shooters but wheres the sporting element? wheres the sport in hitting your target everytime.??

[dadioles]

no offence taken nor itended. i just do not have the time nor desire for the use of a rangefinder and have seen no need for one. my .22 is in constant daily use and as a result i know it like the back of my hand and can shoot it quickly and accuratly as a result. a rangefinder would merely slow me down and by the time i'd checked the range and adjusted my sights the quarry would of changed position or spotted me flecking about with and ruggered off. i'm not knocking them as im sure they are great for target shooters but wheres the sporting element? wheres the sport in hitting your target everytime.??

 

Hi again

 

I think you are deliberately tugging my strings Your first couple of sentences are fine, I agree with you and rangefinders are not for everyone, no problem, each to his own, let's enjoy responsible shooting to the best of our abilities.

 

Target shooters don't need rangefinders as they know how far away the target is although it is a good way to measure accurate distance when setting up targets for practice and zeroing. In competition, field target shooters are probably not allowed rangefinders (?I am guessing).

 

You just spoiled it, and dug an even deeper hole for yourself, when you said:

 

"wheres the sporting element? wheres the sport in hitting your target everytime.??" Maybe you need reminding that your "target" is a living creature!!

 

This is not "sport" it is killing animals and it is our duty as compassionate human beings to do it humanely and yes, we should be doing our very best to hit the target every time. We should not be deliberately handicapping ourselves and giving rabbits a sporting chance as wounding is cruel.

 

The "sporting element", in my humble opinion of course, is being out in the fresh air, walking around the countryside, searching for and stalking our quarry, getting into position and then killing the animal with one quick accurately placed shot. Surely no-one can disagree with that.

[vmax55]

Hi again

 

I think you are deliberately tugging my strings Your first couple of sentences are fine, I agree with you and rangefinders are not for everyone, no problem, each to his own, let's enjoy responsible shooting to the best of our abilities.

 

Target shooters don't need rangefinders as they know how far away the target is although it is a good way to measure accurate distance when setting up targets for practice and zeroing. In competition, field target shooters are probably not allowed rangefinders (?I am guessing).

 

You just spoiled it, and dug an even deeper hole for yourself, when you said:

 

"wheres the sporting element? wheres the sport in hitting your target everytime.??" Maybe you need reminding that your "target" is a living creature!!

 

This is not "sport" it is killing animals and it is our duty as compassionate human beings to do it humanely and yes, we should be doing our very best to hit the target every time. We should not be deliberately handicapping ourselves and giving rabbits a sporting chance as wounding is cruel.

 

by sporting element i mean , as i'm sure you know already , is giving the quarry a sporting chance not shooting fish in a barrel in a manner of words. i am not intending to pull your strings just debating on your comments , which if you read back , contradict themselves.

 

The "sporting element", in my humble opinion of course, is being out in the fresh air, walking around the countryside, searching for and stalking our quarry, getting into position and then killing the animal with one quick accurately placed shot. Surely no-one can disagree with that.

Edited April 26, 2011 by vmax55

[Catweazle]

****** sporting chance, if I shoot at something I intend to kill it and if that means using a rangefinder, lamp, moderator, bipod or whatever then so be it.

[willy1]

****** sporting chance, if I shoot at something I intend to kill it and if that means using a rangefinder, lamp, moderator, bipod or whatever then so be it.

 

Best if you use a rifle as well,Steve

 

 

I have to agree 100% with Steve's statement

 

Alan

[dadioles]

****** sporting chance, if I shoot at something I intend to kill it and if that means using a rangefinder, lamp, moderator, bipod or whatever then so be it.

 

Nicely put. My thoughts exactly.

[Colster]

****** sporting chance, if I shoot at something I intend to kill it and if that means using a rangefinder, lamp, moderator, bipod or whatever then so be it.

 

 

Completely agree. If you want to play sport, take up golf or go shoot clays, quit "playing" with live animals.

[jasper3]

got my 22LR zeroed in at 50yds... at 95yds i aim at the tip of the rabbits ears, this gives me a 3.5" drop

 

sofar been spot on

 

i have got to say though , ive been lucky enough to have the time to measure certain distances from my shooting spots

 

ie Bush A is 72 yds... fence B is 94 yds gate c is 51 yds etc etc

 

my view on this ..is ..get to know your shooting ground, after a while distance becomes 2nd nature

 

with the 17hmr I have found that a 100yd zero works well for me

[vmax55]

Nicely put. My thoughts exactly.

 

and you say to me i've no respect for the quarry??? i'm not sure as to what you are implying in your previous posts but making out i've no respect for quarry is far from the truth. it is your statements alone that suggest it is you " pushing the boundaries " as far as shooting live quarry is concerned and tis you digging a hole for yourself not i.

this is an open debate to all and all are entitled to their opinion just keep it real.

[dadioles]

and you say to me i've no respect for the quarry??? i'm not sure as to what you are implying in your previous posts but making out i've no respect for quarry is far from the truth. it is your statements alone that suggest it is you " pushing the boundaries " as far as shooting live quarry is concerned and tis you digging a hole for yourself not i.

this is an open debate to all and all are entitled to their opinion just keep it real.

 

Hello vmax,

 

This is getting silly and really will be my last post on this subject.

 

At no point have I stated absolutely that you have no respect for the quarry, I do not know you. Some of the wording which you have used in your posts, such as "giving the quarry a sporting chance not shooting fish in a barrel" in the context that you find it amusing that some of us use rangefinders in order to improve our accuracy in order to be certain of a kill, implies a lack of respect for the quarry. It may sound like a play on words but it is not.

 

I and others do not want to offer them (rabbits) a sporting chance, at least not at the point when we pull the trigger, I am looking for the certainty of a kill with every shot. I have just got back from a quick visit to the golf club. 3 shots, 3 dead rabbits. I did not give them a sporting chance other than my wits against theirs while stalking (two others were smarter than me and bug**rd off).

 

You clearly misunderstood my comment about pushing the boundaries. I shoot within my ability and the conditions of the day, but strive to improve.

 

In the early days I would shoot at 50 yards, I was a good shot at 50 yards.

With experience and practice on targets I could push my boundary out to 60 yards. Now at 60 yards I was as skilled and accurate as I used to be at 50 yards.

Then 70, 80, 90 yards. Lots of practice on targets honing skill, when good enough at that range, shoot rabbits, but not before.

 

If it is windy, my maximum range comes down, if conditions are perfect, the range goes up.

This evening I was using the hmr in a 20mph headwind but all shots were between 65 and 85 yards and easy chest shots as it was a culling operation, no meat needed.

 

Respect for the quarry means shoot and kill instantly, one shot - no negotiation.

 

I am sure you are a good shot and we all need to be careful how we express our views as we can only be judged by what we write.

[kent]

Hello vmax,

 

This is getting silly and really will be my last post on this subject.

 

At no point have I stated absolutely that you have no respect for the quarry, I do not know you. Some of the wording which you have used in your posts, such as "giving the quarry a sporting chance not shooting fish in a barrel" in the context that you find it amusing that some of us use rangefinders in order to improve our accuracy in order to be certain of a kill, implies a lack of respect for the quarry. It may sound like a play on words but it is not.

 

I and others do not want to offer them (rabbits) a sporting chance, at least not at the point when we pull the trigger, I am looking for the certainty of a kill with every shot. I have just got back from a quick visit to the golf club. 3 shots, 3 dead rabbits. I did not give them a sporting chance other than my wits against theirs while stalking (two others were smarter than me and bug**rd off).

 

You clearly misunderstood my comment about pushing the boundaries. I shoot within my ability and the conditions of the day, but strive to improve.

 

In the early days I would shoot at 50 yards, I was a good shot at 50 yards.

With experience and practice on targets I could push my boundary out to 60 yards. Now at 60 yards I was as skilled and accurate as I used to be at 50 yards.

Then 70, 80, 90 yards. Lots of practice on targets honing skill, when good enough at that range, shoot rabbits, but not before.

 

If it is windy, my maximum range comes down, if conditions are perfect, the range goes up.

This evening I was using the hmr in a 20mph headwind but all shots were between 65 and 85 yards and easy chest shots as it was a culling operation, no meat needed.

 

Respect for the quarry means shoot and kill instantly, one shot - no negotiation.

 

I am sure you are a good shot and we all need to be careful how we express our views as we can only be judged by what we write.

 

yep and that you have been

[wymberley]

got my 22LR zeroed in at 50yds... at 95yds i aim at the tip of the rabbits ears, this gives me a 3.5" drop

 

sofar been spot on

 

i have got to say though , ive been lucky enough to have the time to measure certain distances from my shooting spots

 

ie Bush A is 72 yds... fence B is 94 yds gate c is 51 yds etc etc

 

my view on this ..is ..get to know your shooting ground, after a while distance becomes 2nd nature

 

with the 17hmr I have found that a 100yd zero works well for me

Hang on, just a minute, what 22 LR? Have you been sneaking off to the RFD again?