loaded mags in public places

[Coolhead]

There is no law specifically covering magazines.

 

Section 19 covers "firearms" in public.

Section 57 defines "firearm" and includes "any component part"

 

So theoretically, stocks, mags, triggers and mods are firearms. This includes those for air guns. That doesn't mean it is illegal to carry those parts though.

 

The law is appallingly badly written, it's shameful.

 

You need to justify carrying an imitation firearm in public but not a real one as long as there is no ammo.

Edited April 16, 2011 by Coolhead

[sitsinhedges]

There is no law specifically covering magazines.

 

Section 19 covers "firearms" in public.

Section 57 defines "firearm" and includes "any component part"

 

So theoretically, stocks, mags, triggers and mods are firearms. This includes those for air guns.

 

The law is appallingly badly written, it's shameful.

You need to justify carrying an imitation firearm in public but not a real one as long as there is no ammo.

 

So still no legislation specifying a loaded magazine being any different to an unloaded one when out of the gun, or a tin of pellets then

 

 

I'm dying to be proved wrong on this

[artschool]

 

7. Any dead whale found on the British coast automatically becomes the King

 

that cant be right? How can a dead whale rule the country?

 

Prince Charles is not going to be happy when he hears about this law.

[artschool]

 

7. Any dead whale found on the British coast automatically becomes the King

 

that cant be right? How can a dead whale rule the country?

 

Prince Charles is not going to be happy when he hears about this law.

[HDAV]

So still no legislation specifying a loaded magazine being any different to an unloaded one when out of the gun, or a tin of pellets then

 

 

I'm dying to be proved wrong on this

the 1968 act refers to:

(b)a shot gun or an air weapon shall be deemed to be loaded if there is ammunition in the chamber or barrel or in any magazine or other device which is in such a position that the ammunition can be fed into the chamber or barrel by the manual or automatic operation of some part of the gun or weapon

 

This suggests to me that the magazine when not attached to the gun would not class as a loaded firearm

[sitsinhedges]

the 1968 act refers to:

 

 

This suggests to me that the magazine when not attached to the gun would not class as a loaded firearm

 

Precisely, in the gun a loaded magazine would be illegal because you would have a loaded gun, yet if you have a magazine in your pocket and a gun in a slip you would not.

 

The 'good reason' is a side issue and would apply anyway if you are maybe crossing the road at your shoot rather than walking down the high street on a friday evening.

[Coolhead]

Precisely, in the gun a loaded magazine would be illegal because you would have a loaded gun, yet if you have a magazine in your pocket and a gun in a slip you would not.

 

The 'good reason' is a side issue and would apply anyway if you are maybe crossing the road at your shoot rather than walking down the high street on a friday evening.

 

With so many people looking into it, I think it's pretty clear that if any such law existed someone would have found it by now.

[Spanishfly]

CAUSE THE MAG ITSELF IS ACTUALLY CLASSED AS A LOADED WEAPON!!!!!

 

 

Care to post an authoritative reference for that? I ask because I think it is incorrect.

[Andy H]

There used to be a law that said you cannot have a loaded airgun in a public place but that has been replaced with you cannot have an airgun in a public place without reasonable excuse .

[UKPoacher]

Take a tip from me and keep your Loaded magazines in a brown paper bag when you are in public. Same for your Nuts magazine. Don't want the public to think I'm a perv.

[arjimlad]

Current text of s57 Firearms Act 1968 :

 

(5) The definitions in subsections (1) to (3) above apply to the provisions of this Act except where the context otherwise requires.

 

(6) For purposes of this Act—

 

(a) the length of the barrel of a firearm shall be measured from the muzzle to the point at which the charge is exploded on firing; and

 

(B) a shot gun or an air weapon shall be deemed to be loaded if there is ammunition in the chamber or barrel or in any magazine or other device which is in such a position that the ammunition can be fed into the chamber or barrel by the manual or automatic operation of some part of the gun or weapon.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

A full magazine does not equal a firearm. And a shotgun or airgun is not deemed loaded simply if the user has a magazine in his pocket.

 

It is an offence to have a firearm (i.e. s1 rifle or FAC shotgun) or airgun in a public place whether loaded or not without lawful authority or reasonable excuse(s19) but it is NOT an offence to have an unloaded shotgun in a public place.

[WGD]

Take a tip from me and keep your Loaded magazines in a brown paper bag when you are in public. Same for your Nuts magazine. Don't want the public to think I'm a perv.

 

[northeastshooter]

i wounder who thinks up these laws what about a single shot airgun i could put a pellet in the gun by opening a tin of pellets in the same time as i could put a loaded mag in does that mean to carry a airgun and a tin of pellets is illagal? the only difference been 1 shot in stead of 10

[sitsinhedges]

i wounder who thinks up these laws what about a single shot airgun i could put a pellet in the gun by opening a tin of pellets in the same time as i could put a loaded mag in does that mean to carry a airgun and a tin of pellets is illagal? the only difference been 1 shot in stead of 10

 

 

The law doesn't exist, that's the whole point.

 

The OP was talking ********, and you can carry as many loaded magazines as you can fit in your pocket without breaking any law at all

[Beardo]

how strange - i'm positive it was a loaded magazine (without the in position to chamber bit).

[northeastshooter]

im easly confused lol adnt think id stop doing it if it was anyway even more some when out lamping nothing worse than **** around in the dark with a tourch trying to load a mag

[sitsinhedges]

im easly confused lol adnt think id stop doing it if it was anyway even more some when out lamping nothing worse than **** around in the dark with a tourch trying to load a mag

 

I took the Rowan mag out of my gun for the ride home a couple of days ago, got home and couldn't find it. Thought I was going to have to ring the farmer to look where I'd been cleaning the bunnies but then luckily found it on the floor of my vehicle.

Be much easier just to leave it in

[HW682]

Current text of s57 Firearms Act 1968 :

 

(5) The definitions in subsections (1) to (3) above apply to the provisions of this Act except where the context otherwise requires.

 

(6) For purposes of this Act—

 

(a) the length of the barrel of a firearm shall be measured from the muzzle to the point at which the charge is exploded on firing; and

 

(B) a shot gun or an air weapon shall be deemed to be loaded if there is ammunition in the chamber or barrel or in any magazine or other device which is in such a position that the ammunition can be fed into the chamber or barrel by the manual or automatic operation of some part of the gun or weapon.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

A full magazine does not equal a firearm. And a shotgun or airgun is not deemed loaded simply if the user has a magazine in his pocket.

 

It is an offence to have a firearm (i.e. s1 rifle or FAC shotgun) or airgun in a public place whether loaded or not without lawful authority or reasonable excuse(s19) but it is NOT an offence to have an unloaded shotgun in a public place.

 

 

You are right Arjimlad, I have thought about it a bit more since my last post and think I am clear in my mind what the situation is, but got bored of posting on the thread because it is going round in circles.

My current thoughts:

 

as has been posted several times, section 19 of 1968 Firearms Act states:

It is an offence to have an airweapon in a public place whether loaded or not without lawful authority or reasonable excuse.

 

so for a start the original discussion is irrelevant. (This might be different for other types of firearm, but we were talking airweapons).

 

Some confusion creeps in because section 57 tells us that an airweapon is LOADED if a magazine with pellets in is fitted to the airweapon.

Section 57 also defines LOADED as

a shot gun or an air weapon shall be deemed to be loaded if there is ammunition in the chamber or barrel or in any magazine or other device which is in such a position that the ammunition can be fed into the chamber or barrel by the manual or automatic operation of some part of the gun or weapon.

 

by this definition a magazine cannot be LOADED as it doesn't have a chamber. This is a case of confusing everyday English with the strict definition in section 57. As a magazine cannot be LOADED, again the original discussion is irrelevant.

 

The last bit of confusion arises because section 57 also defines a weapon as blah, blah, blah...or a component thereof.

 

Some have argued that this means a magazine is an airweapon. The Home Office guidance to Police advises that a non pressure bearing part such as a stock, sight or MAGAZINE is not considered a component part.

 

If you want to argue that a magazine is an airweapon, then bear in mind that it would be an offence to have the magazine in a public place (without excuse etc etc) whether it is LOADED OR NOT.

[jason airarms tx]

NOTE TO ALL!!GOT MY INFO ON LOADED MAGS IN PUBLIC FROM READING PETE WADESONS BOOK TOTAL AIRGUNS PAGE 294/5 BOTTOM PARAGRAPH.CHECK IT OUT IF YOUVE GOT THE BOOK.THANKS CHAPS,BUT I SUPPOSE SOME ONE OF MR WADESONS CALIBRE WHO HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN THE AIRGUN GAME IS A LIAR (NOT)AFTER ALL WHAT CANT SPEAK ,CANT LIE. Edited April 30, 2011 by jason airarms tx

[sitsinhedges]

NOTE TO ALL!!GOT MY INFO ON LOADED MAGS IN PUBLIC FROM READING PETE WADESONS BOOK TOTAL AIRGUNS PAGE 294/5 BOTTOM PARAGRAPH.CHECK IT OUT IF YOUVE GOT THE BOOK.THANKS CHAPS,BUT I SUPPOSE SOME ONE OF MR WADESONS CALIBRE WHO HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN THE AIRGUN GAME IS A LIAR (NOT)AFTER ALL WHAT CANT SPEAK ,CANT LIE.

 

Well it seems to be proven that he was talking out of his bottom. We've all learn't something on this thread

[highseas]

Quite frankly even if it's 'the law' I don't think there will be any danger of arrest as the police, on the whole, take the common sense approach and most won't know what every law, by-law and directive is.

 

I looked up these other daft laws on the internet (so they are probably all wrong):

 

Here is a list of the UK's top 10 most ridiculous British laws :

 

1. It is illegal to die in the Houses of Parliament

 

2. It is an act of treason to place a postage stamp bearing the British king or queen's image upside-down

 

3. It is illegal for a woman to be topless in Liverpool except as a clerk in a tropical fish store

 

4. Eating mince pies on Christmas Day is banned

 

5. If someone knocks on your door in Scotland and requires the use of your toilet, you are required to let them enter

 

6. In the UK a pregnant woman can legally relieve herself anywhere she wants, including in a policeman's helmet

 

7. Any dead whale found on the British coast automatically becomes the King

 

8. It is illegal not to tell the tax man anything you do not want him to know, but legal not to tell him information you do not mind him knowing

 

9. It is illegal to enter the Houses of Parliament wearing a suit of armour

 

10. It is legal to murder a Scotsman within the ancient city walls of York, but only if he is carrying a bow and arrow

i think some of them are the result of some druken games of " i dare you! at no 10 lol

[jason airarms tx]

i think some of them are the result of some druken games of " i dare you! at no 10 lol

ALL GOOD FUN MATE

[willy1]

Jason, please learn to use lower case when typing, upper case equates to shouting all the time,and is considered to be rude, thanks.

 

 

Alan

[Blunderbust]

I believe that to refer to a magazine when it has rounds in it as being loaded is wrong, be it air pellets, rim fire, centre fire or indeed any removable magazine fed weapon, when the magazine has rounds in it, it is classed as charged. When a charged magazine is placed on a weapon, the weapon is then classed as loaded. This of course has its contradictions when the magazine is a fixed unit on the weapon, for example a semi shotgun. In this situation once a round is placed in the magazine/tube, the weapon is immediately classed as loaded.

 

This is of course is my opinion and due to this I believe that the statement about charged magazines in a public place is tosh.

Edited May 2, 2011 by Blunderbust

[jason airarms tx]

Jason, please learn to use lower case when typing, upper case equates to shouting all the time,and is considered to be rude, thanks.

 

 

Alan

sorry chum no disrespect intended,wasnt aware that typing in capitals was a no,no :o