grasshopper Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 No quotes from books, information gained from various resources over the years. 'Well read' doesn't imply plageurism! If you can't be bothered to read it.. don't.. I'm not here to placate you, hardly huge amounts of text to read but I'd rather that than post dull one liners. Difficult to condense what I have written into 3-4 lines without resorting to txt spch.. ok m8 There... 4 lines... happy?... have you read that one? Yep! Now i enjoy a good discussion as much as anyone - but,when someone starts telling people that "They no nothing about it" i find this to be total arrogance A discussion should be about peoples opinions,and if they are somewhat wide of the mark,then why not politely point them in the correct direction,instead of laying down the law P.S. sarcasm is the lowest form of wit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conor Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 i killed some hay bales with my compound bow they died on the spot! also took some flesh off two of my mates arms, na i dont need that arm protector yolk they said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) Yep! Now i enjoy a good discussion as much as anyone - but,when someone starts telling people that "They no nothing about it" i find this to be total arrogance A discussion should be about peoples opinions,and if they are somewhat wide of the mark,then why not politely point them in the correct direction,instead of laying down the law P.S. sarcasm is the lowest form of wit Sarcasm in response to sarcasm, you would have seen that if you had read what I was responding to... Again... here we go... where the chuff have I laid down the law I have stated fact and given supporting reasons and evidence, I have yet to see anyone else do this.. All the comments I am seeing just say 'ooohh no... inhumane that!' and then criticism of me somehow attacking people or being arrogant but then don't go on to say why they feel that is the case or give any qualification to their argument. I have a strange feeling that people are just reading the last few posts of this thread and then jumping to conclusions and then onto the bandwagon! I am not arguing with peoples tastes, I arguing with peoples statememnts about the ACTUAL end result of an action... If someone wants to point me to the evidence or information to back up their claims that killing with an arrow is less humane than killing with a bullet, I will gladly read it, absorb it and accept it... up to now, no one has Edited July 19, 2011 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 i killed some hay bales with my compound bow they died on the spot! also took some flesh off two of my mates arms, na i dont need that arm protector yolk they said Yeah... I've done that before now... The bruise was 6"x4" and lasted about 6 weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wharf Rat Posted July 19, 2011 Report Share Posted July 19, 2011 Old poacher I knew told me about huntimg with a crossbow. He reckoned that he gave it up as several bunnies would run on with the bolt going straight through them. He couldn't find the bolts and they were expensive so he gave up. Pretty much sums up the attitude of the man, he wasn't bothered about the rabbits dying a slow death somewhere whilst he looked for the bolts. On the other hand, a pal in South Carolina shoots some damn big game cleanly with the right bolts and level of skill; but more importantly with the corect attitude to his prey. I was up for joining him for some boar spearing at some point, until he said that they do it from tree-top hides. I thought about taking my kung fu spear and getting up close to the swine as the dogs held it at bay, but this is viewed as reckless apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasus bridge Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 i had a barnett cross bow some years ago, whilst it was good fun - iMHO it was nowhere near accurate enough to even try and kill anything with (even if it was legal to do so) i appreciate this may have been more to do with my talent than anything else, but hats off to you (the OP)if you can hit a rabbits head at 75 yards consistently which bow are you using by the way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasshopper Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Sarcasm in response to sarcasm, you would have seen that if you had read what I was responding to... I wasn't being sarcastic,i was stating facts..Your post do bore me You are just pointing out hypothetical situations,i.e. the perfect shot,where as people are pointing out there views and emotions on whether or not they think it is humane....there is no right or wrong to peoples conceptions,the view is there's. You will not accept this,you try to forcfully install your view instead of adopting an educating aproach...when really all you are is the absolute keyboard warrior...read a book,all the gear and no idea. Put the books down,switch off the PC,get out of your cupboard under the stairs and actually do some hunting fella...will do you the world of good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) I wasn't being sarcastic,i was stating facts..Your post do bore me You are just pointing out hypothetical situations,i.e. the perfect shot,where as people are pointing out there views and emotions on whether or not they think it is humane....there is no right or wrong to peoples conceptions,the view is there's. You will not accept this,you try to forcfully install your view instead of adopting an educating aproach...when really all you are is the absolute keyboard warrior...read a book,all the gear and no idea. Put the books down,switch off the PC,get out of your cupboard under the stairs and actually do some hunting fella...will do you the world of good Now that is nothing more than insulting, patronising and quite honestly a very childish response... If you have facts that will contribute to the conversation please post them. Coming on to 'attack' me *** is that all about? If you don't like my posts, don't read them, but unless you can pick holes in what I write, please don't criticize. I don't work on opinions, I work on FACT. Adopt an educating approach I think if you read back through this thread you will notice that I am the only one doing that, I haven't forcefully done anything. I have taken the time to post factual information apart from the posts where I've had to respond to tossers like you! Why am posting about things 'I know absolutely nothing about?' You know nothing about me, my education, experience or my skill set at all. Sorry mate but it's attitudes like yours that drive people away from forums... I can post what the hell I like on here, I do not need to please you and I certainly don't need to feel insulted by you.. Feel free to contribute to the thread and keep it on topic rather than attacking me! Edited July 20, 2011 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linny Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) the guy only asked :unsure: which is the right thing to do. we all have opinions and varied experience which we should share with others when asked and not try and out do one and other .some people read books some don't .if a person knows the highway code inside and out does that make them the best driver i don't think so ? experience and knowledge shared or learnt.and yes i have tried many years ago when i was about 12 with a crossbow and catapult many under powerd air rifles i learnt from that but people still try it i still like my catapult Edited July 20, 2011 by linny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 i had a barnett cross bow some years ago, whilst it was good fun - iMHO it was nowhere near accurate enough to even try and kill anything with (even if it was legal to do so) i appreciate this may have been more to do with my talent than anything else, but hats off to you (the OP)if you can hit a rabbits head at 75 yards consistently which bow are you using by the way? Barnett, that brings back some memories Years ago we used to do the repairs to their show trailer cover / tilt and frame. They always sent it in loaded to the hilt with all the demo toys for us to play with in the yard, a good time was had by all. Even used to chuck boxes of CO2 on for the pistols and bolts for the crossbows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie10 Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 It's funny how people hide behind the humane argument, you can argue no shooting is humane, whatever weapon you use. If you have experience of shooting deer then you will know that the majority of deer kills are far from instant. You don't go out to be humane you go out to kill deer for sport and to eat, not because you want to manage their population for their benefit. Hunting is a natural human behaviour and a right which people want to take away. It seems people are happy these days and sit back and let other people decide what they should or shouldn't be doing. I can see the end of shooting in the future with the type of people involved, 'my hobby is OK everything else is inhumane and should be banned' attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Its an interesting one I struggle to grasp the concept that a deer hit with an arrow stands there in no pain and just bleeds out painlessly. Goes up there with Halal butchery to my mind yes it works but personally I'm not a fan. Deer are one thing do people realise yanks go out to shoot everything up to elephant size with bows? as that adds a whole extra element to the debate. http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/bgforums/thread-print.cfm?threadid=396581&forum=18 It does of course pose the extra element that if it works on elephants it should be fine on deer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasshopper Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Look.... Now... please do some research before you spout rubbish If this is what you think, you know nothing about the subject. The comments about bowhunting show the same level of ignorance As i said previously...Arrogant You can spout on as much as you like,but it all boils down to your way or the highway! As stated - i don't have any desire to partake as it's not my cup of tea..but i am not against it and won't be forced to change my views..especially by someone who hasn't even done it :blink: Hunting with hounds doesn't float my boat either,but i went to London,did the march and added to the numbers! I will back all forms of fieldsports,allways We live in a democratic society,i believe in democracy and will not be told what to think by people like yourself. If you cannot present your facts in a civilised manner,then i shall continue to skip over any post you add to any thread i'm reading. I now think this thread has been derailed enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) As i said previously...Arrogant You can spout on as much as you like,but it all boils down to your way or the highway! As stated - i don't have any desire to partake as it's not my cup of tea..but i am not against it and won't be forced to change my views..especially by someone who hasn't even done it :blink: Hunting with hounds doesn't float my boat either,but i went to London,did the march and added to the numbers! I will back all forms of fieldsports,allways We live in a democratic society,i believe in democracy and will not be told what to think by people like yourself. If you cannot present your facts in a civilised manner,then i shall continue to skip over any post you add to any thread i'm reading. I now think this thread has been derailed enough. You obviously find it easy to post parts of sentences to confer a different meaning on them! There aren't many Brits who actively participate in Bowhunting, I know a couple though! Would you insult Sir Patrick Moore and challenge him about his knowledge of the moon? afterall, he's never been an astronaut or been there It is you who is derailing the thread by attacking me, not the other way round.. And, that's the best news I've heard all day, hopefully that's the last I'll ever hear of or from you! Edited July 20, 2011 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) Its an interesting one I struggle to grasp the concept that a deer hit with an arrow stands there in no pain and just bleeds out painlessly. Goes up there with Halal butchery to my mind yes it works but personally I'm not a fan. Deer are one thing do people realise yanks go out to shoot everything up to elephant size with bows? as that adds a whole extra element to the debate. http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/bgforums/thread-print.cfm?threadid=396581&forum=18 It does of course pose the extra element that if it works on elephants it should be fine on deer No, I don't think it would be pain free at all, I can pop a broadhead in the post to you if you like Alex, you'll possibly see where I'm coming from then... the anatomy of the projectile is purely designed to penetrate and cut as swiftly as possible, rather than to deform and transfer energy, transferring energi is the last thing you want. Can't get that link to work? Edited July 20, 2011 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canis Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Theres times when i think Vipa is spouting rubbish but i think he's spot on here! I fully accept that the law forbids hunting with a bow or crossbow in england but clearly the law is an ****. No doubt I will also get shot down in flames by the blinkered but what the hell !( tin hat Emoticon) Most of our data regarding bows and crossbows comes from when they where used in warfare in the middle ages. Admittedly a modern human is unlikely to use a bow with a draw weight of 100lbs plus, simply because he will not have been training for the use of the bow and a longbowman would be considered deformed by todays standards for the lopsided musculature the training would result in. Broadhead arrows where capable of bringing down horses and bodkin arrows would penetrate steel plate arrmour. Fact. Ajincourt woulld have a masacre by the French rather than of the French otherwise. The only defence to the misnomer that a bow /crossbow cannot develop lethal force for hunting must be that the modern user doen't have the required strength to cock the crossbow or draw the bow? My father has a crossbow built in the sixties with a 150lb draw weight. It doesn't have a mechanical cocking mechanism and Ive only seen him cock it once (early eighties- he was mid thirties at the time). It required the full use of his considerable weight and turned him an apoplectic shade of red. The raw power of the thing was clear. Any rumour that he used with extreme overkill it in sussex in the late 60's for taking pheasants :yp: I'm not going to dwell on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimfire4969 Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Vipa, It seems a sorry state when you have more knowledge than the average person on the subject and you get a load of abuse. I like to read different oppions of different things on PW and then try and reach a view with some other research if needed. So Vipa thanks and don't let them grind you down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Vipa, It seems a sorry state when you have more knowledge than the average person on the subject and you get a load of abuse. I like to read different oppions of different things on PW and then try and reach a view with some other research if needed. So Vipa thanks and don't let them grind you down. Much appreciated, Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) Theres times when i think Vipa is spouting rubbish but i think he's spot on here! I fully accept that the law forbids hunting with a bow or crossbow in england but clearly the law is an ****. No doubt I will also get shot down in flames by the blinkered but what the hell !( tin hat Emoticon) Most of our data regarding bows and crossbows comes from when they where used in warfare in the middle ages. Admittedly a modern human is unlikely to use a bow with a draw weight of 100lbs plus, simply because he will not have been training for the use of the bow and a longbowman would be considered deformed by todays standards for the lopsided musculature the training would result in. Broadhead arrows where capable of bringing down horses and bodkin arrows would penetrate steel plate arrmour. Fact. Ajincourt woulld have a masacre by the French rather than of the French otherwise. The only defence to the misnomer that a bow /crossbow cannot develop lethal force for hunting must be that the modern user doen't have the required strength to cock the crossbow or draw the bow? My father has a crossbow built in the sixties with a 150lb draw weight. It doesn't have a mechanical cocking mechanism and Ive only seen him cock it once (early eighties- he was mid thirties at the time). It required the full use of his considerable weight and turned him an apoplectic shade of red. The raw power of the thing was clear. Any rumour that he used with extreme overkill it in sussex in the late 60's for taking pheasants :yp: I'm not going to dwell on! I'll be the first to admit to spouting rubbish a lot of the time The biggest difference with a modern compound bow is the use of cams and 'let off.' My bow has a modest 60lb pull (which is too low for hunting) and lets off to about 28lbs at full draw, I could hold that very steady for 10 or 15 mins if necessary, the weight of the bow would probably fatigue my armas and shoulders before that happened though. Some of the McPhearson bows with 90-100lb draw weights have 80% let off, so when at full draw you are only holding 18-20lbs... very clever stuff... combine that with modern materials and the effort involved is minimal (as long as you can pull that initial 90-100lbs... I would struggle and probably fail!) The much feared English longbowmen would pull 150lbs with absolutely no let off.... beggars beleif really... bet they all looked like Quazimodo! :unsure: Edited July 20, 2011 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 I'll be the first to admit to spouting rubbish a lot of the time can I be second The interesting extra point to this is bearing in mind how efficient and lethal these new bows are should all and sundry be able to buy them or should they be licensed. Seems like there could be a timebomb about to go off were kids to get hold of them and start shooting the local cats etc as they do with airguns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegleg31 Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 I know absolutely nothing about bow hunting so I've read Vipas posts with interest . You have'nt come across sarcastis or arrogant in my opinion.What I find hard to believe though on reading this, to say the majority of people on this site shoot some sort of quarry.However looking through some of the responses it's something I'd expect from an ill informed anti (and we all know how stubborn they are). I've always tried to learn about something (where possible) I don't know about so I can honestly have a view on it P.s. I'm not saying anyone is an anti it's just reading through this post reminds me of how a few conversations have gone Regards Pegleg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) can I be second The interesting extra point to this is bearing in mind how efficient and lethal these new bows are should all and sundry be able to buy them or should they be licensed. Seems like there could be a timebomb about to go off were kids to get hold of them and start shooting the local cats etc as they do with airguns You started the club, I just joined it! I have thought the same but then these things aren't new... compound bows were just coming onto the scene in the UK when I started archery what... 1982... and were very much looked down upon as the brash new thing from America by the steadfast recurve shooters of the time... very much the 'mountain bikes' of the archery world when they first surfaced... now you'll struggle to see the recurve bows amid the sea of compounds at most clubs! I am unaware of any incidents over the past few decades involving bows. I think part of it is that they aren't on the public radar like guns are... there isn't a constant drip feed from Hollywood (if you discount rambo!) and again, I think the public perception of bows and arrows is more along the lines of Cowboys & Indians... Also... they aren't seen as being 'cool' as are guns! They certainly don't look benign though Edited July 20, 2011 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Looks like it should be hanging from the ceiling in the Bat Cave! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 The draw weight of olden-day bows does not mean they were more powerful than lighter modern bows. Arrow velocity also depends on the recovery rate of the limbs, something which modern composite materials excel at. My bow has a 70lb draw weight, with 80% let off. It will shoot 318fps. I have a device that straps to my wrist and clips to a loop behind the arrow, it has a trigger just like a rifle and the accuracy is quite surprising. With appropriate arrow heads I would be happy to hunt rabbits at close range with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie10 Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 can I be second The interesting extra point to this is bearing in mind how efficient and lethal these new bows are should all and sundry be able to buy them or should they be licensed. Seems like there could be a timebomb about to go off were kids to get hold of them and start shooting the local cats etc as they do with airguns You sound like the politicians that want everything ban, the potential to do damage. Will you be pushing to ban kitcken knives or screwdrivers? Everything has the potential to do harm, even a pencil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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