70% 'pricked'?

[-Mongrel-]

I'm in my probationary year with my wildfowling club which (sensibly) means that I must be accompanied on all visits to the marsh this year.

 

Anyway, I shot my first duck last week (Yay!!) but it was pricked and needed dispatching, not a problem per se. However, my mentor said words to the effect of " You need to get used to that mate, probably 7 out of 10 birds aren't cleanly down, ducks are as tough as *******!".

 

Is it just me or does that seem too high? Not that I know any better mind, but is it a case of maybe the ammo choice needs reviewing, or are ducks really as tough as? Mine had at least two shot pellets in the body, maybe more elsewhere?

 

I'm using GYTTORP 32g, 4 shot HP steel carts, is that adequate?

[magman]

And the distance was ?

[TJ91]

I must be a bloody good shot then

7 out of 10 pricked...seriously not good and he needs to change what he is using/doing

[-Mongrel-]

And the distance was ?

 

Can only speak for mine, about 35yards I believe.

 

I have to say that he regularly refuses the shot on a distance basis, too high or far, so I'd suspect that he's not going for too many long shots.

[TJ91]

Can only speak for mine, about 35yards I believe.

 

I have to say that he regularly refuses the shot on a distance basis, too high or far, so I'd suspect that he's not going for too many long shots.

Your cart should be adequate for that range

Aim for the pilot!

 

7 out of 10 pricked..he must be doing something wrong!

[scolopax]

Nothing like that number. I define pricked bird as birds hit which then carry on flying and are not retreived, can happen occasionally to us all but if its happening too often then either your own accuracy is lacking, the choke/cartridge combo is not up to the job, or most likely...they were out of range to begin with.

[magman]

Can only speak for mine, about 35yards I believe.

 

I have to say that he regularly refuses the shot on a distance basis, too high or far, so I'd suspect that he's not going for too many long shots.

 

Have you tried the load on a pattern plate , may be the way forward ?

would expect more than 2 pellets in the body at that range

[-Mongrel-]

Nothing like that number. I define pricked bird as birds hit which then carry on flying and are not retreived, can happen occasionally to us all but if its happening too often then either your own accuracy is lacking, the choke/cartridge combo is not up to the job, or most likely...they were out of range to begin with.

 

Ok, well I'm defining pricked as down and retrieved but not stone dead when retrieved ie, in need of dispatch.

 

 

Have you tried the load on a pattern plate , may be the way forward ?

would expect more than 2 pellets in the body at that range

 

I would LOVE to try a few loads on a pattern plate, but I don't have land to set my own plate up on, and my two local shoots (Northall and Southdown) don't have pattern plates! I have no idea what shoots well or badly through my gun! :o

[Bleeh]

I'm in my probationary year with my wildfowling club which (sensibly) means that I must be accompanied on all visits to the marsh this year.

 

Anyway, I shot my first duck last week (Yay!!) but it was pricked and needed dispatching, not a problem per se. However, my mentor said words to the effect of " You need to get used to that mate, probably 7 out of 10 birds aren't cleanly down, ducks are as tough as *******!".

 

Is it just me or does that seem too high? Not that I know any better mind, but is it a case of maybe the ammo choice needs reviewing, or are ducks really as tough as? Mine had at least two shot pellets in the body, maybe more elsewhere?

 

I'm using GYTTORP 32g, 4 shot HP steel carts, is that adequate?

 

 

Steel carts don't hit quiet as hard as you want, there's the american saying of 'One to bring them down and two too finish them off' and it's closer than the truth that I wish to admit.

 

Try using Bismuth or Heavy shot - they are a bit pricy at about £1 a cartridge but if you are Fowling, you'll only get through about a box a month even with heavy use.

[Catweazle]

I too consider a "pricked" bird to be one that's hit but carries on flying. A bird that comes down but needs despatching is killed as far as I'm concerned.

[apache]

I think it will be more common than you think. I would say 'pricked' birds fly on and a bird that hits the ground still alive would be 'wounded'.

 

I would bet that a significant number of missed birds take a pellet, there are studies out there with as many as 70% wounded. I went on a very interesting BASC day on 'improving your shooting' and this was a large part of it.

 

Know your pattern, know your limit and you don't have to pull the trigger.

[Whitebridges]

"......probably 7 out of 10 birds aren't cleanly down, ducks are as tough as *******!".

Humm, personally I think that is shocking, disgusting even. If you can't kill more consistently than that DON'T pull the trigger. Get some Hevi-shot and use it at 40 yards max until you know what you are doing. BTW ducks are not tough, utter ********.

[anser2]

If your mate is not killing at least 80% of the birds he hits stone dead then he is doing something wrong. Shooting at them too far away or using the wrong shells. There some pretty rubbish steel shells out there , Express for one , but get a good quality shell such as Gamebore 36 gr or Remington 1 1\8 oz or 1 1\4 oz and you should be getting a high kills to shots ratio.

 

Shot size is important too. Use a minimum of no 3 and do not be afraid to go up to number 2 for mallards. Somer of my mates give me a look or horror when i say I use no 2 pellets on mallard , but it is recomended you go up 2 sizes from lead to steel. So no 2 steel is the same as no 4 lead and that used to be a poplar choice for coastal wildfowling. Some of the places I shoot you have to kill the birds cleanly or you lose them in the strong tide. So far this season I have shot 20 duck for 27 shots and only 1 of them needed to be dispatched when retrieved. Most of my shots are in the 40- 50 yard bracket. I find steel kills more cleanly than lead used to once you get used to the limitations of the shells and use the correct combination of shot load , pellet size and choke. What you cant do with steel is push the range beyond its limits. Lead pellets would sometimes kill well beyond the pattern giving out , that does not happen with steel as pattern and penetration gives out at the same time. I used to hate steel shells but in recent years have learnt its caperbilities. I shoot over 1000 steel shells a season at duck , geese and pigeons and for one never miss lead, but you have to know how to use the stuff as its not as forgiving.

 

My only real complaint about steel is its a bit punchy if you shoot a 100 or more a day.

Edited October 19, 2011 by anser2

[-Mongrel-]

"......probably 7 out of 10 birds aren't cleanly down, ducks are as tough as *******!".

Humm, personally I think that is shocking, disgusting even. If you can't kill more consistently than that DON'T pull the trigger. Get some Hevi-shot and use it at 40 yards max until you know what you are doing. BTW ducks are not tough, utter ********.

 

 

Wind your neck back in buddy. IF you'd read the post fully you'll see that it's not my figures or quote, hence why I questioned it and indeed stated it seemed a bit high. I'll let you know in due course if and when my personal figures approach this mark and THEN you can start thinking about throwing your orders about.

[-Mongrel-]

If your mate is not killing at least 80% of the birds he hits stone dead then he is doing something wrong...

 

... but you have to know how to use the stuff as its not as forgiving.

 

My only real complaint about steel is its a bit punchy if you shoot a 100 or more a day.

 

Thanks for that sensible and informative response, I'll certainly look at shot size and cartridge choice, I'm looking to buy in the next week anyway so have the opportunity to try something different.

[anser2]

If you are using a 2 3\4 inch chambered gun with open chokes try Gamebore 32 gr no 3s. A very good shell. If you have a 3 inch gun go for the mamonth 36 gr load. Remember with normal chokes 1\2 is as full as you can go. However you can get an after choke specialy made for steel at .700 which is almost the same as a full lead choke. Combine that with a 3 1\2 inch chambered gun and you have a 3 1\2 shell ( Remmi or Gamebore ) shell that works as well as most of the old magnum lead shells. The one exception is the old lead winchester XXX 1 7\8s lead load. Surley the best long range shell ever made.

 

On shell to avoid is the Express Lydale 3 inch. A guy on the wildfowling forum tested a batch and found them very slow at just 850 fps. A remmington is between 1250 and 1550 fps depending on the load. Two mates bought a couple of cases of Express 32 gr load a couple of years ago and they were next to usless. He ended up using them on pigeons and only one or two out of every ten birds were killed outright , the rest being wounded. Their lead shells are very good , but their steel need a lot of work on them.

 

Ihave not used them , but hearing good things about the new Eley steel shells.

Edited October 20, 2011 by anser2

[motty]

If you are using a 2 3\4 inch chambered gun with open chokes try Gamebore 32 gr no 3s. A very good shell. If you have a 3 inch gun go for the mamonth 36 gr load. Remember with normal chokes 1\2 is as full as you can go. However you can get an after choke specialy made for steel at .700 which is almost the same as a full lead choke. Combine that with a 3 1\2 inch chambered gun and you have a 3 1\2 shell ( Remmi or Gamebore ) shell that works as well as most of the old magnum lead shells. The one exception is the old lead winchester XXX 1 7\8s lead load. Surley the best long range shell ever made.

 

On shell to avoid is the Express Lydale 3 inch. A guy on the wildfowling forum tested a batch and found them very slow at just 850 fps. A remmington is between 1250 and 1550 fps depending on the load. Two mates bought a couple of cases of Express 32 gr load a couple of years ago and they were next to usless. He ended up using them on pigeons and only one or two out of every ten birds were killed outright , the rest being wounded. Their lead shells are very good , but their steel need a lot of work on them.

 

Ihave not used them , but hearing good things about the new Eley steel shells.

Some great replies there, anser.

For ducks i now use Gamebore 36gm 3 or 42gm 3. The 42gm 3 or 1 make a decent all round load for ducks and geese - saves changing carts every few minutes.

As anser said, steel is very effective. I had a nice triple on greylag last night using homeloaded 36gm BB @ 1475fps. They were all dead in the air at around 35 yards, but could have stretched that another 10 yards easily.

A few fowlers i've spoken to have said these fast factory loads (mainly remington) kill as well as many lead loads used to.

[Guest cookoff013]

I'm in my probationary year with my wildfowling club which (sensibly) means that I must be accompanied on all visits to the marsh this year.

 

Anyway, I shot my first duck last week (Yay!!) but it was pricked and needed dispatching, not a problem per se. However, my mentor said words to the effect of " You need to get used to that mate, probably 7 out of 10 birds aren't cleanly down, ducks are as tough as *******!".

 

Is it just me or does that seem too high? Not that I know any better mind, but is it a case of maybe the ammo choice needs reviewing, or are ducks really as tough as? Mine had at least two shot pellets in the body, maybe more elsewhere?

 

I'm using GYTTORP 32g, 4 shot HP steel carts, is that adequate?

use #2 shot.

 

If your mate is not killing at least 80% of the birds he hits stone dead then he is doing something wrong. Shooting at them too far away or using the wrong shells. There some pretty rubbish steel shells out there , Express for one , but get a good quality shell such as Gamebore 36 gr or Remington 1 1\8 oz or 1 1\4 oz and you should be getting a high kills to shots ratio.

 

Shot size is important too. Use a minimum of no 3 and do not be afraid to go up to number 2 for mallards. Somer of my mates give me a look or horror when i say I use no 2 pellets on mallard , but it is recomended you go up 2 sizes from lead to steel. So no 2 steel is the same as no 4 lead and that used to be a poplar choice for coastal wildfowling. Some of the places I shoot you have to kill the birds cleanly or you lose them in the strong tide. So far this season I have shot 20 duck for 27 shots and only 1 of them needed to be dispatched when retrieved. Most of my shots are in the 40- 50 yard bracket. I find steel kills more cleanly than lead used to once you get used to the limitations of the shells and use the correct combination of shot load , pellet size and choke. What you cant do with steel is push the range beyond its limits. Lead pellets would sometimes kill well beyond the pattern giving out , that does not happen with steel as pattern and penetration gives out at the same time. I used to hate steel shells but in recent years have learnt its caperbilities. I shoot over 1000 steel shells a season at duck , geese and pigeons and for one never miss lead, but you have to know how to use the stuff as its not as forgiving.

 

My only real complaint about steel is its a bit punchy if you shoot a 100 or more a day.

+1

[wildfowlingmad]

Well there is no doubting that steel is not as good as lead and so you will get less clean kills. I can recomend gamebore super steel (i use magnum 36g 4shot- already had a few good mallard this year with em and they patterned well) i have just bought 100 of them! You dont need a patter plate just some large sheets of paper pinned to some wood will do fine. Get a gun, ammo, choke combo you have faith in! Good luck!

 

and 7/10 seems off to me!

[mudpatten]

Hello mate,

 

Tell me who told you that and I`ll slap him round the head repeatedly when we meet.

 

The Gytorp cartridges you are using are fine, provided, like any ammunition,you hit the bird well up the front and within a sensible range. A lot of mindless detractors of steel conveniently forget that you used to get runners with lead as well.

 

If your mentor gets that many cripples he is an extremely poor shot and/or one who cannot judge range.And you can tell him I said that.

 

I prefer the slightly heavier load and a larger shot size in the Gamebore Mammoth 3" cartridge and I have almost no cripples.

 

A lot of people repeat the mantra "steel is not as good as lead", in many cases without ever having had experience of shooting lead at wildfowl, whilst the statistical evidence using modern steel cartridges at sensible ranges suggests that, in a blind test, one where the shooter did not know which material he was using,almost none could consistently tell the difference.

 

Never mind the politics and the bullshiners. Steel works. You simply clipped your first one with the edge of the pattern.

[-Mongrel-]

Hello mate,

 

Tell me who told you that and I`ll slap him round the head repeatedly when we meet....

 

Never mind the politics and the bullshiners. Steel works. You simply clipped your first one with the edge of the pattern.

 

Evening Mr M-P. I would tell you...but then he might not want to take me out anymore!!! I'll have a chat and see what he's using etc. Can't comment on his shooting as yet!

 

I'm happy enough with the thought of steel, but think I will get some Gamebore 36's though, I've got to admit to taking on a couple that I was convinced were going down only for them to fly on unscathed, I don't think range is the issue as I'm very conscious of not pushing it and at thirty yards I'd expect to be hitting them! I don't know anything about the age of the carts I'm using, I got them off another club member. I guess that if I switch to a known cart and still miss, I can only blame myself then!

[kent]

70% of dropped ducks not dead? Nope i think there is other issues there - most likely bad statistics. One thing i do know is steel shells need testing in a variety of chokes on a pattern plate or similar. I have tested some that perform fine through 1/4 and put them through 1/2 choke and there are gaps like you wouldn't credit- yeah thats right tighter choke less dense! Normally it is the reverse but illustates why you should test them first. Personally i view 35 yds as the max effective range wether that be BBB on geeese or 4's on teal, i am not great with a shotgun but i am at 25% down but not out so far this season and that was due to my bad shooting not the steel. I have a mate who uses 7 1/2 's and steel through i/c and kills a heck of a lot of duck with them his wounding rate is the same or better than mine but has far greater experiance, one thing i can say is you never ever see him shoot at something he aint sure of killing (its never gonna work out at 100% down, 100% dead but thats just shooting and the reason gundogs exist)

[Spaniel]

I first started wildfowling using No5 steels, thinking that would be good enough, but I found that I was pricking the birds rather then hitting them dead in the air, something I dont like.

 

I now use 4s 32grms gold plated steels and when i do get a shot, i bring them down dead.

But I dont take shots out of my 35yd comfort range,and to be honest I think that is why i dont get as many shots off, sometimes i have ducks and geese pass quite close to me and i dont shoot, same if they are a bit high up i wont shoot either, I guess that I am waiting for that sporting shot, if you know what I mean, rather then the sitting duck ones or the ones where i dont feel i may get a clean kill, but thats me.

 

I just purchased some kent Tungsten No 3 36s have not used them as yet but hopefully will give them a go soon, but a bit more expensive for a box of 10 sheels..

[Whitebridges]

Wind your neck back in buddy. IF you'd read the post fully you'll see that it's not my figures or quote, hence why I questioned it and indeed stated it seemed a bit high. I'll let you know in due course if and when my personal figures approach this mark and THEN you can start thinking about throwing your orders about.

 

Do me a favour and go back to school pal. The OP states ...." Anyway, I shot my first duck last week (Yay!!)".....

So it isn't you wounding stuff is it. You owe me an apology, but i'm not expecting one.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Whitebridges

[-Mongrel-]

Do me a favour and go back to school pal. The OP states ...." Anyway, I shot my first duck last week (Yay!!)".....

So it isn't you wounding stuff is it. You owe me an apology, but i'm not expecting one.

 

Jeez, you want me to go back to school! Yes I shot my first and so far only duck and it was wounded, that's 1 out of 1 which will be 100% for the pedants amongst us.

 

However, I also continue to say that someone else had told me that it wasn't unusual for ducks to be wounded and that same someone else suggested the 70% figure. Like I said, IF you read the post...

 

Seems that maybe reading and comprehending hasn't gone hand in hand on this one. Don't hold your breath waiting for that apology, you'll go all blue.