Blunderbuss Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Its all a sad & very sad state of affairs Blundebuss its not just me who has been let down its a whole load of other shooters & part of that wording I used in my post was from 4 wildfowlers who come from your neck of the woods " Gloustershire " & they left ages ago . I have 2 fowlers from down south with me at the moment who same the same thing ! . A few years ago myself & 3 other BASC members had a sand grouse shooting trip mucked up big time by British Airways ! & we could not take our guns ! . So how can we shoot sand grouse with out guns ? you think we had a magic wand to produce more guns when we got there !. Cut a long story short , this cost us a fortune ! so I said to my shooting buddies " chaps I am going to get straight on to BASC about this ! ". When I did Blunderbuss all we got was Really oh thats awful ! Good bye ! now what would have been wrong with a Stinging letter from the MIGHTY BASC to BA complaining about the way its members were treated ! , NO Blunderbuss ! that would have taken up too much of their time & cost them too much money to give BA a mouthful ! . Remember this we & other members were paying the BASC payroll ! & they had no interest , now that is sad ! & they wont get another penny from me & a whole load of others who have left !. Ear defenders Blunderbuss ! you forgot to take em off ! I & others no longer think BASC is value for money First you expect BASC to police wildlife crime and now you expect them to resolve airline luggage issues? I honestly think your expectations of what BASC can or should do are unrealistic (and unreasonable). If you were flying off on a twitching trip and BA lost your binos, would you expect the RSPB to take BA to task? Or the Ramblers Association if they lost your walking boots? You don't like BASC fair enough, and though I'm a member I know they're not perfect. However it would be nice to see some posts from you which don't just vent spleen in their direction. I think you've got valuable stuff to contribute and I for one would be interested in learning more about shooting in your part of the world. But the thought that every post you write will end up with you slagging off BASC puts me right off TBH :( Your sand grouse trip sounds a nightmare by the way, did you get some shooting in the end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 (edited) I would also like to point out that although people are having issues with basc (which I dont) I have had many phonecalls from a few of them discussing issues about shooting and questions i have had about the legality of certain shot and regs and they have called me, however without being rude they are not there to rectify travel issues as ba won't let people take thier guns. Realistically if ba have decided to stop you what can ANYONE do about it ! They have obviously seen it as a risk and stopped it themselves .People are all to quick to have a pop and yes they are not perfect but look at the few cases of shooting and forcing firearms legislation ! Who were the first and only group I saw contributing any media punt to the general public ? That would be basc then. Also would I be correct in saying that SACS will only operate politicly in Scotland ? Surely for any members southern of the border this would be an issue.......unless all you wanted was the insurance I suppose. Basc have done and still do a lot for shooting and fair enough people HAVE and WILL have issues with them but constantly spouting and bitching about them on an open forum is pointless and detrimental to our common cause. Let's concentrate our obvious energies on the likes of the HSA, LACS etc Much love Edited for spelling errors Edited November 2, 2011 by mpk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justintime Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 I would also like to point out that although people are having issues with basc (which I dont) I have had many phonecalls from a few of them discussing issues about shooting and questions i have had about the legality of certain shot and regs and they have called me, however without being rude they are not there to rectify travel issues as ba won't let people take thier guns. Realistically if ba have decided to stop you what can ANYONE do about it ! They have obviously seen it as a risk and stopped it themselves .People are all to quick to have a pop and yes they are not perfect but look at the few cases of shooting and forcing firearms legislation ! Who were the first and only group I saw contributing any media punt to the general public ? That would be basc then. Also would I be correct in saying that SACS will only operate politicly in Scotland ? Surely for any members southern of the border this would be an issue.......unless all you wanted was the insurance I suppose. Basc have done and still do a lot for shooting and fair enough people HAVE and WILL have issues with them but constantly spouting and bitching about them on an open forum is pointless and detrimental to our common cause. Let's concentrate our obvious energies on the likes of the HSA, LACS etc Much love Edited for spelling errors Thats the best post i have read yet,, we should all unite under a common banner SACS BASC SRA NRA CA NGO IN A concerted effort to stop the erosion of our chosen sport lively hood way of life as it wont be long the way things are going as no one will have any firearm to use, if we dont that goes for all the wrongs done not just an iderviduals. Thats what i would like to see a common defence with common sence applied not changes brought about by knee jerk policeys., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 All the main shooting organisations already work together under the umbrella of the British Shooting Sports Council: http://www.bssc.org.uk/. There is much more to keeping shooting safe than insuring people in case they have an accident (Rare) and being able to quote ACOP / HO guidance and the firearms Act all of which is important and needed I agree, but there is so much more to do to keep shooting safe. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 (edited) There is much more to keeping shooting safe than insuring people in case they have an accident (Rare) and being able to quote ACOP / HO guidance and the firearms Act all of which is important and needed I agree, but there is so much more to do to keep shooting safe. Couldn't agree more, every time i have called or spoken to basc with issues about young shots,steel shooting,cip regs the info they have been sending to schools about educateing for rural sports (which subsequently they sent me all the relevant paperwork and computer programs they use to have a look through)....anything really they have always been very helpfull and called me back at a later date with more info that they felt would help me. I have a lot of time for basc. and also all the lobbying and media that they contribute to ! Edited November 2, 2011 by mpk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Pole star anyone with one grain of common sence would have checked with the airline to see if they allowed guns onboard , before booking the flight. In this modern age of terrorist activity it is hardly surprising they do not. As for BASC attending roadshows and stands at countryshows , how else do you expect staff to meet members face to face and also interact with the shooting community as a whole. Perhaps you would perfer them to book a home visit every year. As I have already said BASC are not perfect and I have had my disagreements with them in the past , but they are by far the most effective shooting lobby we have. If you do not like the managment get involved to change it. Perhaps the best question should be " ask not what your shooting organisation can do for you , but what you can do for it ". As for me I have done my share in the last 40 years , have you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pole Star Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Pole star anyone with one grain of common sence would have checked with the airline to see if they allowed guns onboard , before booking the flight. In this modern age of terrorist activity it is hardly surprising they do not. As for BASC attending roadshows and stands at countryshows , how else do you expect staff to meet members face to face and also interact with the shooting community as a whole. Perhaps you would perfer them to book a home visit every year. As I have already said BASC are not perfect and I have had my disagreements with them in the past , but they are by far the most effective shooting lobby we have. If you do not like the managment get involved to change it. Perhaps the best question should be " ask not what your shooting organisation can do for you , but what you can do for it ". As for me I have done my share in the last 40 years , have you ? answer2 now do you really think we were that stupid & that we did not have this all arranged with the BA ! infact it was done a long time in advance ! & we got to the airport an hour early just incase we had any problems . I have not been a member now for some time & I dout I will be rejoining. Pole Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pole Star Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 First you expect BASC to police wildlife crime and now you expect them to resolve airline luggage issues? I honestly think your expectations of what BASC can or should do are unrealistic (and unreasonable). If you were flying off on a twitching trip and BA lost your binos, would you expect the RSPB to take BA to task? Or the Ramblers Association if they lost your walking boots? You don't like BASC fair enough, and though I'm a member I know they're not perfect. However it would be nice to see some posts from you which don't just vent spleen in their direction. I think you've got valuable stuff to contribute and I for one would be interested in learning more about shooting in your part of the world. But the thought that every post you write will end up with you slagging off BASC puts me right off TBH :( Your sand grouse trip sounds a nightmare by the way, did you get some shooting in the end? See my post to anser2 Blunderbuss & yes we got are shooting in the end but it cost us twice the price for reasons that are some what complicated to explain . Some times I wonder what doese BASC do ! ?? & the lead shot disaster in England !!! I dont want go there !. Pole Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 (edited) See my post to anser2 Blunderbuss & yes we got are shooting in the end but it cost us twice the price for reasons that are some what complicated to explain . Some times I wonder what doese BASC do ! ?? & the lead shot disaster in England !!! I dont want go there !. Pole Star The lead shot banning issue was not basc's doing !!! The government pushed it through, basc opposed it and yet subsequently were ignored !! Edited November 2, 2011 by mpk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 (edited) So you are saying that BA said you could take guns on the plane and then changed their mind. If that is true then you have a good case to sue them. What lead disaster in England ? If you mean for wildfowling , the non toxic shells available to the job as well as most lead shells did in the old days , indeed some are better than lead and we have the knowledge we are not posioning our waterfowl. Edited November 2, 2011 by anser2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 So you are saying that BA said you could take guns on the plane and then changed their mind. If that is true then you have a good case to sue them. What lead disaster in England ? If you mean for wildfowling , the non toxic shells available to the job as well as most lead shells did in the old days and we have the knowledge we are not posioning our waterfowl. i must admit that there are some good non toxic cartridges(for a price) about now but when they banned lead only **** non toxic was available for a quite a few years which was not a good alternative for lead, andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Quite true, but it was still an unsympathetic government that banned it, not BASC. BASC is not a political party and does not run the country. The assertion that BASC was somehow responsible for the introduction of ntx is usually the last resort for those completely ignorant of what actually happened. When you see someone write "Sometimes I wonder what BASC does!!The lead shot disaster in England", one immediately knows that a load of ignorant drivel is sure to follow. Pray tell,if you are someone who believes,quite wrongly, that BASC was responsible for the introduction of ntx, please enlighten us as to how they should have fought the campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lampwick Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 It seems to me BASC could do with listening to potential and ex members as I have read before on here they are a members organisation and do respond to them and their needs. The insurance cover and legal support SACS offer appeared good value to me so I joined! If BASC offered the same legal support I would have joined them. I'm also happy to pay for the work they do in Scotland which I presume they do as no one else does? I'm sure if there was one size fits all there would be? There's the challenge come on then BASC, CA etc Shippy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Has anything actually changed since the last debate on this subject? Join whoever you want for whatever reason you like, it's your choice! I'm sick to death of the lot of them, they are ALL in business to feather their own nest, they all need their heads banging together and forming a UNITED shooting/countryside organisation which would then most certainly have some clout, rather than a whimper. But that will never happen because too many MD's, Chairman, Company Secretaries etc etc will join the dole queue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Has anything actually changed since the last debate on this subject? Join whoever you want for whatever reason you like, it's your choice! I'm sick to death of the lot of them, they are ALL in business to feather their own nest, they all need their heads banging together and forming a UNITED shooting/countryside organisation which would then most certainly have some clout, rather than a whimper. But that will never happen because too many MD's, Chairman, Company Secretaries etc etc will join the dole queue! I stick with BASC because they have helped me in the past but there are to many wages on the line for the fieldsports organisations to merge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Quite true, but it was still an unsympathetic government that banned it, not BASC. BASC is not a political party and does not run the country. The assertion that BASC was somehow responsible for the introduction of ntx is usually the last resort for those completely ignorant of what actually happened. When you see someone write "Sometimes I wonder what BASC does!!The lead shot disaster in England", one immediately knows that a load of ignorant drivel is sure to follow. Pray tell,if you are someone who believes,quite wrongly, that BASC was responsible for the introduction of ntx, please enlighten us as to how they should have fought the campaign. so true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pole Star Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 So you are saying that BA said you could take guns on the plane and then changed their mind. If that is true then you have a good case to sue them. What lead disaster in England ? If you mean for wildfowling , the non toxic shells available to the job as well as most lead shells did in the old days , indeed some are better than lead and we have the knowledge we are not posioning our waterfowl. Yes anser2 we had our trip all sorted & to carry firarms until the last moment it whent trash! the police at the airport had no problem with us taking our guns & the hazardous goods controler at Stansted said it was ok . Our tavel agent who booked all the flights even rushed out the airport to argue the case but no we could not go on the same flight as the fire arms & that was that , so we had to leave them behind at the very last moment & we were the last to board the plane . There is more to this but its over now & we made frantic calls to our guide in S Africa & got a mish mash of old guns & extra guides to make it legal under South African fire arms law . As for BASC it surly would have been a decent thing if they could have given BA a a letter of complaint in the way its members were treated but that was too much trouble for them . As for the lead shot issue well the Scottish law is a much better one . Pole Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Sorry pole star to be so harsh about this but, from what you`ve told us,and as a BASC member, I`m glad that the association to which I pay my subscriptions avoided getting embroiled in the personal affairs of someone who happened to be a member. Your problems were nothing to do with BASC and were entirely between you and the airline. BASC acted completely properly in not spending my subscriptions on your civil law problems. It is your expectations that are at fault. A quick comment on the SAC`s legal cover. Please do not fondly imagine that you can go and do something really stupid with a gun and that the legal insurers will throw money at your case. They won`t. A number of legal filters will be applied to your case and the best advice that you might get is "plead guilty and throw yourself on the mercy of the Court." Before getting too carried away with legal insurance, carefully read the small print. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 (edited) Ok Pole Star so I expect you are sueing BA for the extra costs you incured. Good luck with what seems a watertight case with BA saying you could take the guns and then changing their mind. I hope you take BA to the cleaners. Post the results when they come up. But as mudpatten says it realy does not have a lot to do with BASC , its an issue between you and BA. It sounds like an admin slip up from BA with the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing. Edited November 3, 2011 by anser2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinytim38 Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Thanks everyone for reminding me my BASC membership was due for renewal 3 days ago Just gave them a ring and renewed, had a good deal of helpful info from BASC over the years, cant fault them in any way, and when the police have been interperating the home office guidelines for the issue of firearms to suit themselves a call to BASC and they quickly changed there attitude and sharpened there focus. I am not saying CA are no good just that there focus is not primarly on shooting and they are doing what they can to try repeal the hunting act, Doubt they will change it quickly, however there has been more support for the local hunts since the act came into force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 I just wonder where shooting would be today if BASC had not been formed many years ago as WAGBI . I am proud to have been an old WAGBI member and have supported BASC/WAGBI for proberbly 50 years or so . My dear friends I dont think we would be gun owners in the same sense that we own guns today . All political parties have tried to reduce the number of guns that we own one way or another . With out BASC I am sure we would not be able to own carry on shooting as we do . Basc is not the only association out there ,but BASC is the best with shooters interests at heart . Harnser . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pole Star Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Quite true, but it was still an unsympathetic government that banned it, not BASC. BASC is not a political party and does not run the country. The assertion that BASC was somehow responsible for the introduction of ntx is usually the last resort for those completely ignorant of what actually happened. When you see someone write "Sometimes I wonder what BASC does!!The lead shot disaster in England", one immediately knows that a load of ignorant drivel is sure to follow. Pray tell,if you are someone who believes,quite wrongly, that BASC was responsible for the introduction of ntx, please enlighten us as to how they should have fought the campaign. Well its like this mudpatten , when we pay up our fees to BASC we want or would like to see some good results & there is an old saying " the customer is always right !" & I dont mean that exactly like you might like to take it !, so put it another way I think BASC needs a bit of a rethink & members are paying the wages of the professionals to fight our cause . Now tell me mudpatten is that ignorant drivel ? remember this that with out the customers the experts at BASC would be seeking employment else where !. Any way I will be having a chat with some one from BASC latter Regards Pole Star ps I hear these groans from members & ex members the whole time ,I wonder if BASC has a complaints dept Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pole Star Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Sorry pole star to be so harsh about this but, from what you`ve told us,and as a BASC member, I`m glad that the association to which I pay my subscriptions avoided getting embroiled in the personal affairs of someone who happened to be a member. Your problems were nothing to do with BASC and were entirely between you and the airline. BASC acted completely properly in not spending my subscriptions on your civil law problems. It is your expectations that are at fault. A quick comment on the SAC`s legal cover. Please do not fondly imagine that you can go and do something really stupid with a gun and that the legal insurers will throw money at your case. They won`t. A number of legal filters will be applied to your case and the best advice that you might get is "plead guilty and throw yourself on the mercy of the Court." Before getting too carried away with legal insurance, carefully read the small print. Mudpatten I AM NOT A FOOL ! I know all about small print but what harm would just a single letter of complaint to BA about the treatment of its members have been ? & that would have satisfied me & just think then mabe next time around they might treat BASC members with a bit courtesy . PUBLIC RELATIONS Pole Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pole Star Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 It seems to me BASC could do with listening to potential and ex members as I have read before on here they are a members organisation and do respond to them and their needs. The insurance cover and legal support SACS offer appeared good value to me so I joined! If BASC offered the same legal support I would have joined them. I'm also happy to pay for the work they do in Scotland which I presume they do as no one else does? I'm sure if there was one size fits all there would be? There's the challenge come on then BASC, CA etc Shippy Spot on Shippy they need to do a bit more listening to ex menbers too win them back & a bit more listening too members they do have too stop them leaving . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 Mate,I think your last three posts are a classic example of the sort of mentality of many of the people who have "problems" with BASC. Out of curiosity, and without wishing to be insulting, do you have "problems" with a lot of the bodies that you deal with on a day to day basis? BASC does listen to it`s members and members are NOT leaving in droves as some suggest. One of the problems that BASC has is that some of the stuff that it`s members want or say, like your airline problem,is a nonesense and they are right not to act upon it, or as you might prefer to say, not to listen. A sort of vague and generic dissatisfaction with BASC is nothing new. After attending an affiliated club meeting from whom unspecified noises of dissatisfaction had emanated for years a BASC staff member tried to pin down exactly what the problem was. None of the moaning members could put their finger on a single specific problem. It eventually turned out that, some thirty five years ago the then Director John Anderton had agreed to attend a meeting from which he cried off because he was seriously unwell! They never forgave him and bore an irrational grudge ever since. BASC is not perfect, never has been, never will be.But if you have an issue with it at least ensure that it is founded within the parameters of their remit. Dealing with a civil matter between a member and an airline that just happened to involve guns, is not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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