no wonder people poach when crayfishing

[stubby]

so after me and the family doing a spot of crayfishing with bakerboy, Ive been doing searches for areas within essex or london to fish in, sending e mails to different bodies, ie angling clubs etc

anyway, sent an e mail to lee valley asking about crays in their waterways, as they allow fishing, and got this reply

 

 

Hi Stephen,

 

 

 

Bit of a long story involving Crayfish so I’ll make it as brief as possible: Basically and the short answer is the following: The trapping of crayfish on fisheries, angling venues or water bodies riperean owned by the Lee Valley Regional Park is illegal by anyone other than those approved by the issue of official permission from the Fisheries & Angling Manager regardless of issue of Environment Agency consents.

 

 

 

The current law regarding the trapping of crayfish is that any individual or company must in the first instance complete the Environment Agency application forms; the applicant has to then satisfy the local requirements regarding trapping/fishing methodology. If these are met then consent may be given and the consent forms and appropriate numbered tags will be issued for attachment to the individual traps (For E.A. inspection). These consents contain a sentence altering the potential trapper to the fact that the consent is issued without riperean owners permission, furthermore the task of gaining permission to use said traps is then directly given to the trapper to seek official prior consent from the owner of the water body to be trapped, therefore until this is subsequently granted the act of removing property of the riperean owner it becomes theft under the theft act 1968.

 

 

 

Additionally (as in our case) there are overarching Health and Safety requirements such as prior approved written risk assessments (both site and operation specific), method statements and valid public liability insurance certification which must include Pest control. So no surprises why we only grant consent to the Environment Agencies Officers engaged in the scientific research programme. The Crayfish in question is in 99% of cases the North American Red Signal Crayfish which is a non-indigenous species however the colonisation of this species since widespread illegal introduction in 1996 has been phenomenal whereby the current population is thought to be way beyond any practical control measures, indeed our previous intensive efforts certainly coincide with the current scientific opinion regarding the effectiveness of trapping.

 

 

 

Thank you for your enquiry, unfortunately this probably not the answer you were looking for, however prior knowledge is better than a fine!

 

 

 

Kind regards,

[Lampwick]

That's simple then!!!

 

It must have taken ages to compose that response.

[Fisherman Mike]

The simple fact is that The EA are hoping that by leaving them untrapped the natural balance will eventually even its self out.

 

Currently Crayfish are decimating fish stocks in all rivers they proliferate and consuming small fish and their eggs in huge quantities...

 

In the next few years the real damage will be evident. When their food source is scarce they become cannibalistic eating smaller and younger of their own species, By taking them in volume all we do is provide more space for others to breed and grow. Bit like pigeon shooting the more you shoot the more seem to breed.

 

Nice to eat granted ( well actually I find them bland and muddy ) but in my opinion the EA stance is the right one and they should be left to balance naturally.

[vole]

What would be the harm in letting people fill their boots even if it were only to dent the population ?

[Fisherman Mike]

No harm at all What I meant was taking on a commercial scale not as an individual.

 

Near me the EA are taking out tonnes each year and year on year the tonneage is apparently increasing.

 

One good thing is the Brown trout, Perch, Pike and Chub are growing to specimen size. Ive had perch of 3.8 3.9 3.10 x 3 and one of 4 2 this year from one stretch of the Thames by previous best in the last 25 years was 2 7... Chub of over 5lb are not uncommon where the biggest 10 years ago would run to 3 - 31/2.

 

However what with the cormorants and now these bloody crayfish decent bags of silver fish even small ones are dissapearing. Even the humble Gudgeon is becoming scarce.

 

I fear that in 10 years time most of our rivers will be almost devoid of native fish stock unless the EA can find a biological solution to this problem.

 

I even watched about 15 Chub spawning for about 3 hours in a side stream back in May this year 10 minutes after they had finished the gravel bed and weeds were covered in a moving carpet of crayfish...it was very disturbing to watch. When i left an old grey heron was really getting stuck into them though.

 

Perhaps the resurrgence of the otter population will help thin them out a bit.

[Jan147]

As an angling society we had been advised by the EA that the crayfish will eat each other and be controlled this way and create the balance rather than trying to remove them.

[stubby]

I have a friend who's a barrister, so asked him to have a read of the e-mail, heres his response, think Ill take his advise and give them a ring...

 

Hi Steve, They are right about the requirement of the Environment Agency, therest of it though I think is a little bit of a push, I don't think theHealth and Safety Executive have anything to do with private hobbiesand generally only deal with work related stuff, but I advise you givethem a call...http://www.hse.gov.uk/....is their website. Ask themdirectly whether they would require any Health and Safety requirementsto be met while conducting a small time hobby. Not sure why you would need public liability insurance either, itisn't your land, you aren't dealing with the public, and you don'tneed public liability insurance to go boating, fishing, ride a bicycleor any other activity, so that appears quite unlikely as well. Ithink these rules apply to people that are crayfishing for a living,or for profit in some way. since you already said it was to carry ona "relaxing hobby" these requirements should not apply to you. I would ring the HSE tomorrow, ask them directly whether they have anyinvolvement in personal hobbies, and then perhaps write another emailback requesting why you would need public liability insurance to fish,since no other fishing requires any such insurance. Hope that helps Steve

[Billy.]

I had no issue getting the appropriate licences. A few calls to the relevant people so if someone were to come along, you have a name to put to them who they will know.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Billy.

[squirrelhall]

Surley if we leave the crayfish to eat themselves when they have eaten every thing else in the rivers we will be left with last crayfish standing. If they dont kill every thing fish stocks will increase crayfish will stop eating each other start eating every thing else and we are back to where we started

[Gordon R]

The Health and Safety Executive have no interest in anyone's hobby.

 

They are "health and safety" at work.

[bakerboy]

I am so depressed by what i have read, I think I will have to go out Crayfishing this week end to cheer myself up

[Billy.]

I am so depressed by what i have read, I think I will have to go out Crayfishing this week end to cheer myself up

 

I like your style

[Frenchieboy]

I am so depressed by what i have read, I think I will have to go out Crayfishing this week end to cheer myself up

That's damned good thinking mate!

Bl00dy beurocratic red tape, what will it be next, a permit to extract oxygen from the air we breath! Oops, sorry, I had better not give them ideas in case the "Health & Safety" bods are worried that we might be killing ourselves off with the polution in the atmosphere!

[vole]

Are we going to be left with barren waterways apart from whopping Signal crays and fish too big for them to eat .I have noticed my local river is dominated by big chub now and lobster size crayfish , ten years ago it was a mix of chub and trout . Sounds to me like they are justifying inaction .

[bakerboy]

The simple fact is that The EA are hoping that by leaving them untrapped the natural balance will eventually even its self out.

 

Currently Crayfish are decimating fish stocks in all rivers they proliferate and consuming small fish and their eggs in huge quantities...

 

In the next few years the real damage will be evident. When their food source is scarce they become cannibalistic eating smaller and younger of their own species, By taking them in volume all we do is provide more space for others to breed and grow. Bit like pigeon shooting the more you shoot the more seem to breed.

 

Nice to eat granted ( well actually I find them bland and muddy ) but in my opinion the EA stance is the right one and they should be left to balance naturally.

Surley if we leave the crayfish to eat themselves when they have eaten every thing else in the rivers we will be left with last crayfish standing. If they dont kill every thing fish stocks will increase crayfish will stop eating each other start eating every thing else and we are back to where we started .

 

Pigeons only lay 2 eggs at a time "pigeon pair" You have only to pull a crayfish out that is carrying eggs, to see the number they lay. Will we ever be able to get on to of them.?

If as someone said they were illegally reased in 1996, and have got to the numbers we are already seeing, what chance do we have of getting rid if them before the fish stock is totally eradicated?

I fish a stretch of water maybe 150 yards long, last week we took out just under 300 in 2, 2 hour stints with 4 nets.

Prior to that just a few weeks previously we took out approx 1000 over a 10 day period. and if I recall it was 3 visits of about 10 hours in total. am I encouraging them to breed? or just scraping the tip of the iceberg?

I am not a fisherman, but all I hear from fisherman is to get rid of the Crayfish as they are ruining their hobby/pastime.

 

I may also now get on to the Fishing authority that my friend Steve "Stubby" contacted, to enquire about and look at their "Health and Safety Policy" relating to fishing. I am thinking "SMOKE SCREEN"

[bruno22rf]

Not one Crayfish that I have caught has asked to see my license.

[Billy.]

We need someone who can grant us access to a fishery lake. The EA allow trapping of fishing lakes without licences (I read it somewhere)

 

We could have a PW cray day

[bi9johnny]

That's damned good thinking mate!

Bl00dy beurocratic red tape, what will it be next, a permit to extract oxygen from the air we breath! Oops, sorry, I had better not give them ideas in case the "Health & Safety" bods are worried that we might be killing ourselves off with the polution in the atmosphere!

i bet your the type of person that would play conkers without safety glasses gloves and a hard hat on aren't you bad boy

[leeds chimp]

i bet your the type of person that would play conkers without safety glasses gloves and a hard hat on aren't you bad boy

 

and dont forget the HI VIZ VEST!!!!!!

[Big_Paulie]

Fishery lake you say.......hmmmmmmmmmm

[bakerboy]

We need someone who can grant us access to a fishery lake. The EA allow trapping of fishing lakes without licences (I read it somewhere)

 

We could have a PW cray day

Get onto it Billy, if anyone can sort it out you can

Nan and Grandad bakerboy

[stubby]

relating to fishing. I am thinking "SMOKE SCREEN"

 

had thought the same terry, applying to "fish" seems a pretty easy and straightforward affair, it also gives you full access, rather than having to nominate a stretch of river, following the law, of course any signal crayfish caught, cannot be put back, so you have to keep them/take home eat

maybe Ill get my mate KAOS (the barrister) on the case, see if he can find any loopholes

[stubby]

ok, have just sent another e mail back to them, awaiting reply

[vole]

Is it true you can fish for them using a drop net as long as you do not leave it unattended ?

[stubby]

ok, so got this back from them a few minutes ago;

 

Dear Stephen,

 

Apologies if my reply did not clarify the situation for you.

 

 

 

The answer is that no permission will be granted to anyone to trap crayfish either commercially or privately (i.e., as a hobby as you’ve stated), for the reasons being as stated in my original email.

 

 

 

With regards to the native species of crayfish being eradicated, as I previously stated widespread large scale trapping has proved totally futile therefore hobby trapping is even more unlikely to help the situation.

 

 

 

I hope this now clarifies the matter for you,

 

 

 

Kind regards

 

 

 

not really good enough explanation in my eyes, so sent back this reply, lets see what answer I get to this;

 

dear jo,

 

again, thank you for fast reply, but sorry for more questions, your reply states no fishing for crayfish, as per your reply in original e-mail, now Ive re read through this, as below

 

Additionally (as in our case) there are overarching Health and Safety requirements such as prior approved written risk assessments (both site and operation specific), method statements and valid public liability insurance certification which must include Pest control. So no surprises why we only grant consent to the Environment Agencies Officers engaged in the scientific research programme. The Crayfish in question is in 99% of cases the North American Red Signal Crayfish which is a non-indigenous species however the colonisation of this species since widespread illegal introduction in 1996 has been phenomenal whereby the current population is thought to be way beyond any practical control measures, indeed our previous intensive efforts certainly coincide with the current scientific opinion regarding the effectiveness of trapping

 

please can you explain why fishing is allowed for fish, yet fishing for crayfish is not,

Ive read loads of posts from various forums by fisherman/woman about how they have caught crayfish whilst fishing on lee valley waters, of course they cannot return them as that would be illegal, but of course, they also do not have permission to catch crayfish,so therefore either kill by crushing or take home to eat, are these people therefore prosocuted for theft by yourselves?