leeds chimp Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) Chimp.. If I'm right you have served your time working 'security' in clubs and stuff? If someone in a nightclub got a bit tipsy and started mouthing off and another customer decided to take it upon themselves to 'drag' siad person to the front door and then quite violently throw him to the ground ('cos that's what happened here!) are you telling me you would pat customer on his back and say... well done mate... you go and enjoy the rest of your evening!.... Er... No... you wouldn't Depends on the full situation But I can think of a few instances that I have been helped when removing people and customer has helped out...and normally they get a beer bought for them by the landlord/manager for helping us out in the end if I say to them LL... Can remember one night that had a once a year drinker in the pub at xmas on a works party (we all know or met one ) and towards the end of the night he kept pestering a group of girls...I and my Oppo had 2 lots of words with him to behave or he was out...in the end he nipped a girls backside in front of me so out he went...tried to talk him out but not having any of it ..so unfortunaly as I and my Oppo tried to lock him up he slipped his arm and a struggle came about...a regular came over and gave us a hand as to be honest we had a struggle dealing with him due to the size and strenght. I was glad of the help and saved a situation getting worse. Edited December 14, 2011 by leeds chimp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLH1966 Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Sorry but the Ned got what he deserved. Good on ya "Big man" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) Depends on the full situation But I can think of a few instances that I have been helped when removing people and customer has helped out...and normally they get a beer bought for them by the landlord/manager for helping us out in the end if I say to them LL... Can remember one night that had a once a year drinker in the pub at xmas on a works party (we all know or met one ) and towards the end of the night he kept pestering a group of girls...I and my Oppo had 2 lots of words with him to behave or he was out...in the end he nipped a girls backside in front of me so out he went...tried to talk him out but not having any of it ..so unfortunaly as I and my Oppo tried to lock him up he slipped his arm and a struggle came about...a regular came over and gave us a hand as to be honest we had a struggle dealing with him due to the size and strenght. I was glad of the help and saved a situation getting worse. Fair enough but I'm thinking more of a situation like this one.. You are having a word with said tipsy person and ask him to leave, he is not aggresive and has let's say been verbally abusing the bar staff.. he refuses and just sits there and so other customer just bowles in from behind and... yada yada... I don't think you would look on that in quite the same way? I don't even think you guys could get away with throwing someone down like that could you? Edited December 14, 2011 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silpig5 Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Chimp.. If I'm right you have served your time working 'security' in clubs and stuff? If someone in a nightclub got a bit tipsy and started mouthing off and another customer decided to take it upon themselves to 'drag' siad person to the front door and then quite violently throw him to the ground ('cos that's what happened here!) are you telling me you would pat customer on his back and say... well done mate... you go and enjoy the rest of your evening!.... Er... No... you wouldn't no vipa , chimp has a sia licence that involves no hand to hand training and is lacking in full industry training . sitting in a class for a couple of hours and then professing to be a doorman /bouncer / frontline security is a joke . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Fair enough but I'm thinking more of a situation like this one.. You are having a word with said tipsy person and ask him to leave, he is not aggresive and has let's say been verbally abusing the bar staff.. he refuses and just sits there and so other customer just bowles in from behind and... yada yada... I don't think you would look on that in quite the same way? He would not really get much chance to sit there and wait.... :lol: Its hard to judge as it would depend on the other customers attuitude when helping and all the rest of it...would feel a bit underminded and would have a very stern word with the customer as it could make the situation worse very easy and quickly. Dealing with drunk/abusive people is very hard to judge the situation correct everytime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) no vipa , chimp has a sia licence that involves no hand to hand training and is lacking in full industry training . sitting in a class for a couple of hours and then professing to be a doorman /bouncer / frontline security is a joke . . , Just worked nearly 10 years tho in said industry from door, event, retail and static and the training is a week long Edited December 14, 2011 by leeds chimp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albertan_J Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Can I just double check I'm on a shooting forum here? For a second I thought I might be on a liberal party website Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silpig5 Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 , Just worked nearly 10 years tho in said industry from door, event, retail and static they are not in the same league as frontline and sorry mate you are talking out ya blowhole as is a lot of posts about this subject . the deed was done , every body happy apart from the scroat and a couple of lezza veggies who think that fluffy bunnys are all gods . get over it and move on , and hope there are more keen spirited people in the world to bring a bit more order and civilized behaviour back to our once great nation . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 they are not in the same league as frontline and sorry mate you are talking out ya blowhole as is a lot of posts about this subject . the deed was done , every body happy apart from the scroat and a couple of lezza veggies who think that fluffy bunnys are all gods . get over it and move on , and hope there are more keen spirited people in the world to bring a bit more order and civilized behaviour back to our once great nation . we will chat about it next time over a beer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silpig5 Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 , Just worked nearly 10 years tho in said industry from door, event, retail and static and the training is a week long a week long my harris , its all bull and no relavance to the job unless you are a fag guarding the spuds at tesco . if its so good why was a guard stabbed at hmv , a door man on a manslaughter charge at chicargoes ? why . no experiance and no brains ! end of . if you have ever knelt on the floor holding someones face together after a glassing or removed a knife from a coked up nutter then you wouldnt be dreaming of your replies here . sorry end of rant . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 if you have ever knelt on the floor holding someones face together after a glassing or removed a knife from a coked up nutter then you wouldnt be dreaming of your replies here . sorry end of rant . But that's not what we are talking about is it.. we are talking about a moody teenager having tantrum and refusing to move. The ONLY person getting physically violent in this is 'Big Guy.' If a complaint is made, he will have to be charged and I can't see any court condoning his actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 a week long my harris , its all bull and no relavance to the job unless you are a fag guarding the spuds at tesco . if its so good why was a guard stabbed at hmv , a door man on a manslaughter charge at chicargoes ? why . no experiance and no brains ! end of . if you have ever knelt on the floor holding someones face together after a glassing or removed a knife from a coked up nutter then you wouldnt be dreaming of your replies here . sorry end of rant . I have always said that the SIA training is **** and does not get you ready for the things you are going to deal with at all. Only experiance can do that and knowing what you are letting yourself in for. I have dealt with some very bad scenes in the past and its one reason why I dont do the door anymore among other things. As to the OP and the thread I agree with what the bloke did as I have put earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsy Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Some interesting viewpoints on this. Doubtless there are by-laws in place for railways which may differ from normal practice, but usually, once an individual has been asked to leave private property by an agent acting on behalf of the landlord, for any reason, he must do so and should he refuse he then becomes a trespasser. A trespasser can be removed using minimal force and ultimately only a jury can determine whether any force used was reasonable in the circumstances. It is down to the agent to remove the trespasser, though others may assist if necessary. It will be interesting to see how this pans out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Some interesting viewpoints on this. Doubtless there are by-laws in place for railways which may differ from normal practice, but usually, once an individual has been asked to leave private property by an agent acting on behalf of the landlord, for any reason, he must do so and should he refuse he then becomes a trespasser. A trespasser can be removed using minimal force and ultimately only a jury can determine whether any force used was reasonable in the circumstances. It is down to the agent to remove the trespasser, though others may assist if necessary. It will be interesting to see how this pans out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpkiller Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 there's allot of what ifs and whos to blame going about surely the bottom line should be he should of had a ticket and when someone said sorry you haven't he should of got off? people saying the big man should of thought more about what could of happened surely the 19 year old should of thought what would happen to him if he got caught then started causing trouble. Could of fell and cracked his head? that's exactly what the stupid boy should of thought of before doing something stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) there's allot of what ifs and whos to blame going about surely the bottom line should be he should of had a ticket and when someone said sorry you haven't he should of got off? people saying the big man should of thought more about what could of happened surely the 19 year old should of thought what would happen to him if he got caught then started causing trouble. Could of fell and cracked his head? that's exactly what the stupid boy should of thought of before doing something stupid. If you were in a shop arguing with a sales assistant you would not expect a passer by to grab you from behind, drag you to the door and throw you to the ground causing an injury... The scrote was in the wrong and should have been dealt with by the proper authorities.... NOT the mob! I think everything that could be said has been said in this thread... it's up to the courts to decide what's right and wrong... Edited December 15, 2011 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning 425 clay hunter Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) Why do people make up situations and compare them. What has being in a shop got to do with it, and a guy passing drags u out. Totally incomparable. There was alot of people on the train and one little scroat decides he is not going to pay the train fair. Only a few years ago this guy would of be applauded for his actions and that would be that. If you were sat on the train going home from work and this little s??t pulled this stunt I would of marched him off If i was on it. Why is one guy more important than everyone else. majority rules Edited December 15, 2011 by Browning 425 clay hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Why do people make up situations and compare them. What has being in a shop got to do with it, and a guy passing drags u out. Totally incomparable. There was alot of people on the train and one little scroat decides he is not going to pay the train fair. Only a few years ago this guy would of be applauded for his actions and that would be that. If you were sat on the train going home from work and this little s??t pulled this stunt I would of marched him off If i was on it. Why is one guy more important than everyone else. majority rules Tell me why the majority rules please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 I wish Mods would lock this thread as it is now becoming VERY boring. Oh wait I will just not bother reading any more of the drivel that some are typing! Carry on children Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning 425 clay hunter Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Tell me why majority rules. Ok. Because if we listen and pander to the needs of plonkers all the time the country would be a complete mess. The majority of people have common sense and mannors so why should we except the behaviour of the one person out of millions. If 99 people on the train pay and one doesn't are u sayin that the train should be stopped until the one idiot is satisfied with his actions and sod the rest. Hence MAJORITY RULES. For the benefit of everyone. Not that hard to explain was it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Elderly guard needn't have had a coronary. He should be trained in conflict resolution and hopefully de-escalation. It's his job to check tickets and look after the safety of passengers. If someone hasn't bought a ticket and is being abusive back off and let the Police deal with it. Simples. In this case I think the conductor handled the situation very poorly. He escalated the situation. I deal with it at least once a month on an aircraft (drunks). If someone is being abusive de-escalate, ask them to leave the aircraft voluntarily and if that doesn't work I get the Police to offload them. If a passenger was to offer help I'd thank them but ask them to sit down as the situation was being handled. Most folk walk off voluntarily when they know the Police will be involved. I take it you have never worked for a train company then? Dont take this the wrong way, and im not having a go, but trust me they dont train staff in de-escalation or conflict resoloution. You should thank your lucky stars half the drivers are trained to move the train (Mr Smtih excluded ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr smith Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 I take it you have never worked for a train company then? Dont take this the wrong way, and im not having a go, but trust me they dont train staff in de-escalation or conflict resoloution. You should thank your lucky stars half the drivers are trained to move the train (Mr Smtih excluded ) No need to exclude me i can assure you..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Not bothered reading this thread but: 1. Fare dodger was f-ing and blinding and there was a family less than 10' away. In my mind he should have been nicked for that alone, end of but in this new crazy world we don't seem to worry about that sort of behaviour any more 2. Fare dodger didn't have ticket. Again in my book he should have been nicked for that, end of but again in this new crazy world stealing a free ride on a train isn't seen as criminal activity any more 3. Fare dodger ignored a ticket inspector's instruction to leave the train. Again, in this crazy new world no one thinks anyone can be "told" to do anything anymore. Fare dodger got dealt with and I couldn't give a **** if he got hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Ok... Last post on this.. If I knew how to set up a poll I would but... If this guy is charged and it goes to court will a court find him guilty of assault.... Yes or no No explanations or moaning about our nany state etc... In your view of the way things are in the Uk... Will he get done or not, not 'should he' get done.. Yes or no answers please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Yes - definitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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