JustJon Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Hi, I've seen various posts referring to dot and dab but I'm told that's not what my house has - it's basically a new build with walls that are all pasterboard (typical!). I obviously have a safe to fit - what are my options please for fitting downstairs please? (I appreciate I could fit in the attic with good access - ladder, boarded out etc) Apologies for asking - I have honestly tried the search option! Thanks, Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vampire Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Jon,your walls are p/board which is stuck to the masonry with a bonding compound,you do not have walls made entirely of p/board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billytheghillie Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 on the floor in a cupboard, that,s where mine is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustJon Posted December 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Jon,your walls are p/board which is stuck to the masonry with a bonding compound,you do not have walls made entirely of p/board Hence the ask - I'm too thick to solve this one myself! ;-) Ask me to knock a nice spreadsheet together - no problems. Ask me to do DIY and I can just about cope with an Argos flat pack! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Hence the ask - I'm too thick to solve this one myself! ;-) Ask me to knock a nice spreadsheet together - no problems. Ask me to do DIY and I can just about cope with an Argos flat pack! Offer a skill swap mate. I bet there's something you could do for a PW member locally who's good at DIY. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterwolf Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Your in the same position I was ... Its dot n cab plasterboard with breeze block then brick behind it. As long as you get some nice long bolts to bed nidely into the breeze block it wont be a problem. The other alternative is to bolt it lying down to the downstairs floor. In new builds you will find that the floor is concrete under your carpet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo90 Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 my cabinet has holes in the floor also so it could be bolted to a concrete floor stood up.......or as suggested laid down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
station Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 As others have said it will be plasterboard bonded with 'dabs' of board adhesive. The only headache is what the 'dabs' are on - as in concrete block of thermolite block ? If concrete then all is relatively easy and just use normal expanding (Rawl) bolts. My only additional tip is to mark the holes for the back of your cabinet and at this stage only drill the plasterboard. Then you will know if you have been lucky enough to drill into a 'dab' or you will feel the drill bit slip through the 1" or so void till it hits the wall behind. I then get the good old expanding foam aerosol and squidge (technical term) it's nozzle through the holes and squirt foam around 360 degrees. Reason for this is so when you finally fit the cabinet you don't end up crushing the plasterboard flat to the wall behind - which does happen. Then, when dry, cut the excess foam off and drill to the correct depth and size for the Rawl bolts. Put the cabinet in place and secure the bolts with a spanner or socket set. If however your walls behind the plasterboard are thermolite blocks (most new builds will be) then nine times out of ten you will need to use chemical anchors. These are readily available and are sometimes easier or harder than fixing into concrete. I would do much the same as descibed above, but then go off the instructions that come with the chemical anchor kit. The kits are available from most builders merchants and the only thing that needs to be over emphasised is that it will tell you what size hole to drill and that you must blow (or suck) all dust from the hole prior to squeezing the adhesive in. If dust is left then the chemical bond cannot adhere (Thermolite blocks are made from crushed cinders from power stations so are very weak where torsional forces are concerned) and the bolts that you have pushed into the bond prior to it setting will simply pull the bond away from the block. Hope this makes sense and it is more fiddly than complicated - but if a jobs worth doing then it's worth doing well. I was always told to make sure a sixteen stone Police Officer can swing off the door when opened and it will pass any inspection. ATB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 I suggest mark the holes and drill a pilot hole in each to see: a: how big the gap is. b: where the dabs are c: whats behind These may suitable Rigifix M8 Dry Wall Fixing designed for dot and dab without crushing the plasterboard http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rigifix-Drywall-Anchor-M8-Pack/dp/B0032P5K96 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo90 Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 or simpler move house to somewhere with proper wall's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
station Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 or simpler move house to somewhere with proper wall's Oh you just can't beat proper walls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
station Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 I suggest mark the holes and drill a pilot hole in each to see: a: how big the gap is. b: where the dabs are c: whats behind These may suitable Rigifix M8 Dry Wall Fixing designed for dot and dab without crushing the plasterboard http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rigifix-Drywall-Anchor-M8-Pack/dp/B0032P5K96 I use these for Plasma tv mounting - very good. I just go overboard where guns are concerned - my big cabinet has an ammo safe on top of it, this is bolted through the top of the cabinet and then the safe is also bolted to the wall ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedra1106 Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Oh you just can't beat proper walls Yes you can, cos "proper" walls can take a beating, that's what makes them "proper" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poorpeet Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 You do need to be a bit careful here on some newbuild semis now the party walls are stud work, either timber or metal, and a double layer of plaster board each side. Horrible i know but i guess thats progress! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
station Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 You do need to be a bit careful here on some newbuild semis now the party walls are stud work, either timber or metal, and a double layer of plaster board each side. Horrible i know but i guess thats progress! Wow - scary ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustJon Posted December 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Yes you can, cos "proper" walls can take a beating, that's what makes them "proper" Got to admit if I'd had it built it'd have a "proper" wall as part of the design for just this reason! You do need to be a bit careful here on some newbuild semis now the party walls are stud work, either timber or metal, and a double layer of plaster board each side. Horrible i know but i guess thats progress! Detached thank god! I make far too much noise to not be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
englishman-in-wales Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Yep same proplem with me, i ended up putting my cabinets under the stairs, laid down and bolted into the concrete floor...loft is fine, however, damp can be an issue... :good: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike525steel Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Drill a 2" hole behind where your cabinets going and get a proper look at what your up against if your not sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peek-at Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) Hi, I've seen various posts referring to dot and dab but I'm told that's not what my house has - it's basically a new build with walls that are all pasterboard (typical!). I obviously have a safe to fit - what are my options please for fitting downstairs please? (I appreciate I could fit in the attic with good access - ladder, boarded out etc) Apologies for asking - I have honestly tried the search option! Thanks, Jon Everyone seems to have missed that you say your walls are NOT 'dot and dab' and therefore you are likely to have just timber stud work behind your internal walls. Not suitable for fixing your cabinet to I'm afraid. If you have a cupboard with an external wall you should be able to fix to that using suitable rawl bolts (chemical bond type if cinderblock construction). If you dont have a suitable external wall to fix to, you are left with the conrete floor option or the loft. I also have a new build house & I have mine in the loft which is boarded out and has a drop down ladder for access. I leave my guns in their cases so have not had any issues with damp. ATB Edited December 31, 2011 by peek-at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
station Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Everyone seems to have missed that you say your walls are NOT 'dot and dab' and therefore you are likely to have just timber stud work behind your internal walls. Not suitable for fixing your cabinet to I'm afraid. If you have a cupboard with an external wall you should be able to fix to that using suitable rawl bolts (chemical bond type if cinderblock construction). If you dont have a suitable external wall to fix to, you are left with the conrete floor option or the loft. I also have a new build house & I have mine in the loft which is boarded out and has a drop down ladder for access. I leave my guns in their cases so have not had any issues with damp. ATB I see what you mean peek-at, But surely he can only mean that his internal stud walls are just wood and plasterboard ? I never considered the OP's meaning to fix his cabinet to anything except an external wall. My background is partly the building trade and I am unaware of any external walls that are now timber framed on top of the brick / blockwork and then plasrterboarded. The cost is high and to get a perfectly flat wall entails lots of labour. Unless of course he has one of these American / European timber framed new houses which either have no bricks or just an outer face. It will be interesting to hear how the OP gets on and what is actually behind the plaster ! The way modern house design and build is heading we may all end up drilling into the concrete floors (until they replace concrete with something like recycled car tyres) Cheers for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Also if the build is timber frame just bolt to the timber "Fabric of the buiding" is what it used not "solid construction building" Cabinets are not designed to resist sustained attacked with power tools but prevent un authorised access and frustrate attempts to steel. "Firearms and shotguns to which this certificate relates must be stored securely at all times (except in certain circumstances) so as to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, access to the guns by unauthorised persons" The security of firearms, ammunition and shotguns within a dwelling can in most cases be achieved by the provision of a cabinet designed for this purpose. New cabinets should conform to the requirements of BS7558. The cabinet should be fixed to the structure of the building and suitably located to frustrate or obstruct the points of attack or identification by persons visiting the premises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo90 Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 this reminds me of a story of a traveller/gypsy who wanted a shotgun certificate, he applied and the feo bounced it as he had fitted the cabinet in his caravan anyway he then built a brick "shed" next to the caravan and fitted the cabinet in that.....he got his certificate and gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 I was told I could bolt a cabinet using coach screws to the timber as the only solid block work was on the outer skin of the building. Be careful if drilling through a concrete floor as you may go through the Damp Proof Course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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