guerinirocks Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Gents there have been a few Threads that have criticised Worsley shooting ground. Or Manchester whatever you want to call it. I shoot at a few places and admittedly at Worsley the most. It's a multi faceted ground. Corporate, stag, members and comps. The corporates and stags rarely venture from the practise and compacts. If fact I've never seen a stag off the practise or compacts. A few corporates venture onto the comp stands but very rarely and after that a few lesson clients may use comp stand when needed. As I do when I have had lessons. But I read about several stands with empty traps. I've seen dead batteries changed in ten minutes but not empty stands. And if a numpty is stood too close tell em to move. I've not shot a lot, but I've been to essex, the a1 consiton many times and Worsley is well set up. It's failing as a stranger is that its impersonal. It's a business. The land is owned by the guy that owned the Trafford centre. He is not easy. THey have to keep the dollar coming in. The previous groundsman has left and sadly also left this world. Mr moss is very compentant and will make his mark on the comps. Problem is this. Comps don't pay 175k a year in running costs or security (it's in Salford don't forget). It has no electricity, hence generators. the security is tough. The foods good, the ground has some tough stands (any of you lot cleared 12 13 14?) and a mass rounded appeal. It's not Darley dale (which I love) it's twenty mins from manchester. Instead of complaining I would recommend one thing. The manager is a guy called andy Chadwick. Email him and suggest changes for comps. He will respond and if possible I'm sure do something. If you just say what's wrong nothing changes but as here are some exceptional shots out here your input is surely imperative. It's location makes Worsley easy. It's not the dales or the peak or pembrokeshire. It's practically in the Marriott.! I for one think it is a long way from perfect but I am not good enough to say its a **** stand or a great stand. When I break ninety I will. But thats a way off. Worsley seems to get more stick than hitler and I think ts unfair. I wont do that. Say it on the day wherever you are. Tell me if I'm wrong. I'm a member and a new shooter. But it works. It can be bettered but only with input from experts. Happy new year I'm off for a lie down. Oh and before you ask i work for two banks not a shooting ground. I like shooting stuff it's a great stress buster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) Gents there have been a few Threads that have criticised Worsley shooting ground. Or Manchester whatever you want to call it. I shoot at a few places and admittedly at Worsley the most. It's a multi faceted ground. Corporate, stag, members and comps. The corporates and stags rarely venture from the practise and compacts. If fact I've never seen a stag off the practise or compacts. A few corporates venture onto the comp stands but very rarely and after that a few lesson clients may use comp stand when needed. As I do when I have had lessons. But I read about several stands with empty traps. I've seen dead batteries changed in ten minutes but not empty stands. And if a numpty is stood too close tell em to move. I've not shot a lot, but I've been to essex, the a1 consiton many times and Worsley is well set up. It's failing as a stranger is that its impersonal. It's a business. The land is owned by the guy that owned the Trafford centre. He is not easy. They have to keep the dollar coming in. The previous groundsman has left and sadly also left this world. Mr moss is very compentant and will make his mark on the comps. Problem is this. Comps don't pay 175k a year in running costs or security (it's in Salford don't forget). It has no electricity, hence generators. the security is tough. The foods good, the ground has some tough stands (any of you lot cleared 12 13 14?) and a mass rounded appeal. It's not Darley dale (which I love) it's twenty mins from manchester. Instead of complaining I would recommend one thing. The manager is a guy called andy Chadwick. Email him and suggest changes for comps. He will respond and if possible I'm sure do something. If you just say what's wrong nothing changes but as here are some exceptional shots out here your input is surely imperative. It's location makes Worsley easy. It's not the dales or the peak or pembrokeshire. It's practically in the Marriott.! I for one think it is a long way from perfect but I am not good enough to say its a **** stand or a great stand. When I break ninety I will. But thats a way off. Worsley seems to get more stick than hitler and I think ts unfair. I wont do that. Say it on the day wherever you are. Tell me if I'm wrong. I'm a member and a new shooter. But it works. It can be bettered but only with input from experts. Happy new year I'm off for a lie down. Oh and before you ask i work for two banks not a shooting ground. I like shooting stuff it's a great stress buster. Yes, you're wrong. You're talking about members and ex-members of several or many years standing. It's been said many times before. People are just saying why they don't go there. It's good for corporate stuff, it's OK for non-competitive members. For people who shoot competitively at mid to high level, it's no good at all. They don't seem interested. Unfortunately, that makes it a club that people move on from as they progress, and are unlikely to go back. If you say comps don't pay, then that's fine, but why the hell would competitive shooters want to go there? Nobody is interested in the running costs. People don't want to be pushed aside for a load of corporates and stag do pissheads, but if that's where the money is then OK. They make noises about becoming a CPSA Premier ground, but in the next breath, dismiss competitive shooting and spout some corporate **** about they're just there to "sell clays". Well sell away.... I used to be very supportive of Worsley, but I can now see the other side of it and I won't be treated like a second class citizen because "comps don't pay the bills". Comps seem to pay the ******* bills at plenty of other grounds. PS, there's plenty of people on here that can clear 12, 13 and 14 Edited January 2, 2012 by Chard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Chard - sadly I agree. Mr Potter summed it up very well, on a previous thread. Whenever I have been, I honestly feel that they are not interested in my business or very interested at all. Fine - no problem for me - I will take my limited business somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Are stands 12 13 and 14 never changed then!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Potter Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Yes, you're wrong. You're talking about members and ex-members of several or many years standing. It's been said many times before. People are just saying why they don't go there. It's good for corporate stuff, it's OK for non-competitive members. For people who shoot competitively at mid to high level, it's no good at all. They don't seem interested. Unfortunately, that makes it a club that people move on from as they progress, and are unlikely to go back. If you say comps don't pay, then that's fine, but why the hell would competitive shooters want to go there? Nobody is interested in the running costs. People don't want to be pushed aside for a load of corporates and stag do pissheads, but if that's where the money is then OK. They make noises about becoming a CPSA Premier ground, but in the next breath, dismiss competitive shooting and spout some corporate **** about they're just there to "sell clays". Well sell away.... I used to be very supportive of Worsley, but I can now see the other side of it and I won't be treated like a second class citizen because "comps don't pay the bills". Comps seem to pay the ******* bills at plenty of other grounds. PS, there's plenty of people on here that can clear 12, 13 and 14 Potter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guerinirocks Posted January 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Thank you for such an eloquent reply. My post obviously caused offence. It's 2012' we are in a potentially double dip recession. Seven people are employed there. Peel holdings have a funding gap. Somebody has to pay. I hope you find top level shooting and I say with no malice whatsoever that I hope at your very high standard you are satisfied by what you find. I am not of that standard, I like it, they have welcomed me and I will go again and again. Entirely understand your point. I was never rude chard. My point being that comps don't pay all the bills unless the overheads are low. There is a compromise here, I do agree. Comps should be hallowed ground. Stands closed for comp only. No corporates or numpties on there. Maybe if that was published and adhered to it would be a good stance to attract back the aa boys and girls? Does that sound like a good idea? I play golf and at any comp no divs are allowed on the course on comp days. It would seems to be good standard to set. Or at least have priority for those with a card in their hand.. ..?.?.?.?.?.?.?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guerinirocks Posted January 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) I give in ignore me. Sorry I spoke. Happy new year chaps I genuinely wish you well Happy shooting at anywhere except worsley,!,!,!,!, Edited January 2, 2012 by guerinirocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Your post did not cause me any offence. I just disagree with your views. You are entitled to your view, just as others are entitled to theirs. You have made a post saying that the ground has been unfairly criticised. The small consensus seems to indicate that the criticism is accurate. I am at a genuine loss regarding your last post. Bizarre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) I have been a member at Worsley for quite some time, I knew Joe very well and we did discuss the problems he encountered. The main problem is there are a group of members who have shot Worsley for years & feel they should get 80+ every week , they are very vocal if they think it’s too hard so the stands do remain a bit stagnant due to them not being as good as they think they are. This conversation started when Joe stopped me on the course to ask my thoughts on a new stand he had set up as he was told it was unhittable and stupid causing a lot of complaints. My view was the stand was very good and I had cleared it. The problem is if you shoot Worsley every week you start to see the same targets week in week out and your scores creep up, I was regularly in the mid 90’s there but would get a real shock when I ventured elsewhere and yes I have cleared stands 12,13,14 very recently. A lot of the more experienced shooters don’t want to shoot the same targets every week, I might not clear a new stand this week but give me a week or two of the same target and there is a good chance I will. The issue with the registered comps was the organisation, grounds that hold them once or twice a month have it down to a fine art, Worsley struggles due to not being used to them now and the fact they have a lot of members who just want to shoot and not be part of the comp. I like the place, I have had 2 high guns at registered sportrap there this year, but sadly from going 2 times a week I go maybe once every 2 months if that. I really hope things change and I will be going to the next registered shoot they hold and also when I just fancy a muck about but you do get spoiled at other registered grounds compared to Worsley. It’s a great place just to go for a laugh with your mates and knock about but not every week if you want to improve as a sporting shooter. A lot of ideas have been suggested through the ages but they are always going to pander to the members that shoot there week in week out they would be foolish not to. Edited January 2, 2012 by timps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Thank you for such an eloquent reply. My post obviously caused offence. It's 2012' we are in a potentially double dip recession. Seven people are employed there. Peel holdings have a funding gap. Somebody has to pay. I hope you find top level shooting and I say with no malice whatsoever that I hope at your very high standard you are satisfied by what you find. I am not of that standard, I like it, they have welcomed me and I will go again and again. Entirely understand your point. I was never rude chard. My point being that comps don't pay all the bills unless the overheads are low. There is a compromise here, I do agree. Comps should be hallowed ground. Stands closed for comp only. No corporates or numpties on there. Maybe if that was published and adhered to it would be a good stance to attract back the aa boys and girls? Does that sound like a good idea? I play golf and at any comp no divs are allowed on the course on comp days. It would seems to be good standard to set. Or at least have priority for those with a card in their hand.. ..?.?.?.?.?.?.?. No, I don't take offence, but if I'm being told that I've got to shoot at Worsley for eternity, then I will state why I won't be. Your sneering sarcasm is noted, but I'll point out that at no time did I imply that I was a top level shot. I am a mediocre, borderline A Class shooter, but already feel that Worsley isn't doing much for me. For that reason I, and many others like me, go elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guerinirocks Posted January 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 I don't have the benefit of being a great shooter. Best score at Worsley 78. The comment aboutv12 13 14 . If you've been you would know they are the trickiest stands because of their limited options. I do genuinely agree with people who have an opinion but when the response is effectively "your wrong". It criticises what you just said. Ie the right to opinions. I am intrigued what can make it better. Do we need team hugs when people arrive or a management of expectations. I shot at hodent at the police finals thingy in August I think. It was incredibly clicky and very unwelcoming. A bloke stood n the cafe and ordered for six people walking in whilst I stood there. Expressed my disdain and he bought mine! I just believe things can change if people express their concerns correctly. I will argue with anyone , I am a bolshy *****. But in this case. I Want to understand specific complaints to see why registered shoots don't go well here. Why there is only a members shoot. Which I enjoy a lot. I like competing and my initial comments were to provoke constructive criticism that maybe might get read and cause thought and action. But I don't wan a gang **** which is sort of what I got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guerinirocks Posted January 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) Timps thank you, I am beginning to get it. I appreciate your thoughts. Chard, I'm not sarcastic. And I don't sneer. From your comments I think anybody would assume your a good shot. Edited January 2, 2012 by guerinirocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 What a strange thread this is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) But I don't wan a gang **** which is sort of what I got. Forgive me, but that is rubbish. You stated your case - several, including myself, disagreed. You have read what posters have said. Will you now visit the ground and tell them that they need to consider change, if they wish to expand their business? Good luck. I suspect they will stick with what they have. Diceman - just seen your post - agreed. I am at a bit of a loss as to why the OP is so keen to persuade others, rather than speaking to the people who can (and in my opinion need to) change.) Edited January 2, 2012 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guerinirocks Posted January 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Firstly your forgiven Secondly its not rubbish its an opinion. I thought Chard was a good shot And I will go to the ground and make a few suggestions. Maybe a marker on each stand. "COmp only today" stands. ANd a few others And to the point of "Expand business" I dont believe this is an expansion. It will probably cost them more. You lot are very sensitive. Have a great new year Gents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Chard, I'm not sarcastic. And I don't sneer. From your comments I think anybody would assume your a good shot. Not sneering and sarcastic? Just words Most people can grasp that I take the **** out of myself with the El Magnifico nonsense Nobody needs a lecture on Worsley's business model. If Peel Holdings need a gap filling financially, I'm not going to fill it. When my online business first started struggling because we fell foul of the latest Google algorithm, "experts" were quick to jump on me and tell me that it was probably never a viable business anyway, if it was so dependant on Google. In that case, the same applies to Worsley. If the rent is too high and electricity is a big problem, it was probably never a goer anyway. In any event, their business worries are hardly my concern, I have enough of my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Secondly its not rubbish its an opinion. I thought Chard was a good shot And I will go to the ground and make a few suggestions. Maybe a marker on each stand. "COmp only today" stands. ANd a few others Chard is a **** shot, I beat him at skeet on Monday with a hangover and I detest skeet. :P I applaud you for trying to make it better & I hope you succeed. The problem with MCSG is it’s a victim of its own success, they are trying to balance the needs of their large member base of recreational shooters in conjunction with the needs and high expectations of the registered competition shooters and they do not always go hand in hand. The CPSA rules state that a registered shoot should not be pre-shot. Most registered shoots are held on a Sunday & in the case of MCSG this means setting up a completely different course after close of business on a Saturday, this in the past has not happened. So you have members and registered shooters in the know that have pre-shot a large part of the course the day before which is against the rules and unfair. I have also been there when members have spat their dummy out with David Lloyd due to not being able to shoot the full course. Their argument was they have paid £80 membership fee, travelled some distance only to be told they cannot shoot the full course and stick to the practice stands or they have to shoot in the comp which they don’t want to do otherwise they would have joined the CPSA for £80 instead. It’s a case of they cannot please everyone so they please the ones who generate the most income, which is not a registered shooter that may come once every 2 months if they are lucky. The Registered Sportrap events are easier to hold due to only tying up the Sportrap layouts, but the last 100 bird event they held did cause a lot of criticism, although I did enjoy it, apart from the mensa test and the infamous tree. Unfortunately, there have been a lot of complaints about the comps held there in the recent past, some justified, some not, they will have to run a few good shoots on the trot to convince a lot of registered shooters they are taking registered shooting seriously again. Like I said I like the place, but I do accept it has shortcomings for the registered comps but I always give it a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guerinirocks Posted January 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Timps thankyou for your answer. So Chards not much cop at Skeet then. I had not noticed "el magnifico" carved in the wood at the worsley trap hut ala Michelangelo!! I appreciate you explaining to me the (justified) shortcomings. It sounds like its a case of notice and a little organisation would go a long way. I understand that they can provide 18 stands there. So maybe four for the social and then the two compacts for the social lot and the comp course reserved for competitive shots only would be a start. I have a little voice but I will give it a go. If it made a difference I would volunteer as I am sure many would to help run it. Now that I could cock up! many thanks for taking the time to respond with such clarity and logic on the issues that were raised earlier. I just want to get a clearer picture from far more experienced than myself Also clarifying Chards shooting ability. Ive a feeling your assessment is not an opinion but a statement based on facts!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) Timps thankyou for your answer. So Chards not much cop at Skeet then. I had not noticed "el magnifico" carved in the wood at the worsley trap hut ala Michelangelo!! Also clarifying Chards shooting ability. Ive a feeling your assessment is not an opinion but a statement based on facts!!! Chard is a damn sight better at skeet than me, I hate it with a passion its just I beat him on Monday with a hangover which makes me and anyone who knows us both laugh and point at him. Chard is also a good shot at sporting as well, he was AA at MCSG with a low handicap of 6 (I think) and won his fair share of members comps without the need for the handicap. I am in also in AA with a 3 handicap, not shot it in ages though, but we are both now shooting with very very good shots in the majors so have revaluated our standings somewhat, when you shoot against Mr Digweed & co you do start to feel a bit ordinary. Just he is a grumpy ****** when he wants to be but we love him so. :P Edited January 3, 2012 by timps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anni Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 This has got to be a wind up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guerinirocks Posted January 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Just he is a grumpy ****** when he wants to be but we love him so. :P Top answer, Thanks for the replies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 This has got to be a wind up No I did beat him convincingly at skeet with my auto no wind up, honest Chrisdebellend and Al too....... If you had actually turned up as you were meant to I would have beaten you as well......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anni Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 No I did beat him convincingly at skeet with my auto no wind up, honest Chrisdebellend and Al too....... If you had actually turned up as you were meant to I would have beaten you as well......... No way I've read some utter ***** on this forum recently but you and skeet with win thrown in is taking the **** Craig son.....You know how devastating I am with my Auto....Don't even try this ****. You jump on the Benelli by Feb the something and you get two whole quid off. It's drawing near as it's only in May. I won the Members comp at MCSC with an Auto when I was a member. Thats the moment I decided I needed a bigger Buzz than swatting clays for no reason at Worsley. A good ground for the club shooter. or the Borat bikkini wearing ****-soak. I would rather shoot badly against the Big boys. with like minded competitive grumpy old ****. When I grow up thats exactly what I want to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 No way I've read some utter ***** on this forum recently but you and skeet with win thrown in is taking the **** Craig son.....You know how devastating I am with my Auto....Don't even try this ****. You jump on the Benelli by Feb the something and you get two whole quid off. It's drawing near as it's only in May. I won the Members comp at MCSC with an Auto when I was a member. Thats the moment I decided I needed a bigger Buzz than swatting clays for no reason at Worsley. A good ground for the club shooter. or the Borat bikkini wearing ****-soak. I would rather shoot badly against the Big boys. with like minded competitive grumpy old ****. When I grow up thats exactly what I want to be. We need to create a group reference and all book with 48 hours so we can all be on the same squad (except Al) or are we speaking to him now ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulos Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Is the Benelli definitely at Hodnet? What date? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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