Blackpowder Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Reading some of the posts in the vehicle section it is obvious that owners of different landrover models have not had a happy experience in ownership. Once ,'Rover' was a byword in solid reliability and sedate comfort aimed at the middle classes. Landrovers were the countrymans workhorse go anywhere, just about. Along came the posh countrymans landrover in the shape of the first range rovers with their V8 american designed engines, all highly regarded in their time. So when did the rot set in and the landrover family came under severe criticism as unreliable rust buckets. :( Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlistairB Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Not sure i agree with your summary - my old 300Tdi was a great car, it only rusted because it got some serious abuse and i didnt look after it particularly well, and touch wood, so far my Disco 3 has been fine. Interestingly, the JD Power survey for 2011 had the Discovery at 24th= with and 81.8% satisfaction rating (the winner had 85.4%) and it's the highest rated serious off roader as i would describe it. AB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted February 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Not sure i agree with your summary - my old 300Tdi was a great car, it only rusted because it got some serious abuse and i didnt look after it particularly well, and touch wood, so far my Disco 3 has been fine. Interestingly, the JD Power survey for 2011 had the Discovery at 24th= with and 81.8% satisfaction rating (the winner had 85.4%) and it's the highest rated serious off roader as i would describe it. AB Hi blackla, never owned any of the models myself but it was surprised what I had read on recent freelander and discovery threads on here. I am old enough to remember when the only 4x4 on farms and estates was a landrover, standard form, pick up with closed cab, shooting brake or any of several variants. Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 When they became to tecnical to repaired by your average farmer with a hammer and set of mole grips IMO. Seriously i dont think they had a future though as farm veichles once the quad and american style Jap built crew cab pickups came out. they were always going wrong its just the fixes got harder and more demanding of tooling. I have put a lot of rear crosmembers, out riggers, footwells into the older ones. Along with back main oil seals constantly dripping oil, weel bearings being ruined by missing /torn/rotted leather gaiters. The first defender i ever got to drive the prop broke going over an easy field! No they were never that good just easy to fix. The Japs gave us 4x4's that didn't need fixing - what a consept that was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 If LR made a Discovery pickup they'd make a bloody fortune. They seem to have knack of making the first of a new model absolute junk so no matter how good the model evolves to be the reputation is tarnished. And they're too expensive. But if I won the lottery I'd buy a Range Rover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Landrovers are great. I drive a Disco 3 and it will go anywhere you'd get a Jap motor. It's more comfortable and a better drive. I drove a Navara for 2 1/2 years and it was a work horse but was not sad to see the back of it. Has a couple of Vitaras and they started ok, but rust killed them both. Changed to a Freelander 2 that was a good car but the Disco is a class above. I would love a Defender as a shooting truck but don't have space to park one at the moment. How many of the Japanese motors new today will still be going in 20 years? A 20 year old defender looks almost as good now as when new! Please don't forget that Landrovers are made in England, keeping the English in work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 A 20 year old defender looks almost as good now as when new! And the technology hasn't changed much either - have you driven one? IMO the pickups clean up because they are good value for money, ok to drive and, most importantly they keep the dogs, dead animals, boots etc all the one part of the vehicle and the cab can be kept clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 And the technology hasn't changed much either - have you driven one? Yea, did quite a bit of lambing in my teens and the best part was driving the old Landrover. Sort of fell in love then and have wanted one ever since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Yea, did quite a bit of lambing in my teens and the best part was driving the old Landrover. Sort of fell in love then and have wanted one ever since. In fairness you did say "as a shooting truck". A mate of mine has just bought a new one to drive about in every day, he asked me if I wanted a shot and since it's been a few years I thought I'd have a go. 100 yds later I remembered why I don't want one. If it wasn't for romantic notions I think the Defender would have been dead years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cockermax Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Think there is something that keeps drawing you back to Landrover once you have had one. Had a Disco 300tdi and loved it, now owned a Disco TD5 for about 6 years and it has its niggles but still enjoy driving it and it does and goes everywhere I want. Keep saying next 4x4 will be Japanese but in the back of my mind I now it will probably be another Landrover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntsman Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 went wrong after 1980 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 I think the problems started with the Defender. The series Landy's were great, at least for their day they were the best you could get. But then came the Defender, which maybe was OK at first but it hasn't changed, (which is useful as the parts are easily got) but they are still crude, uncomfortable, noisy things that need huge amounts of maintenance. They haven't improved yet. The disco came out, it's perhaps OK at first but again, they are unreliable money pits that haven't improved and I think that the main issue with Landy's is that they haven't thought about anything they make, the disco 3 has a few things added and is a little better, though still not that refined in some ways. The freelander was just a joke, apart from comfort easily achieved by a good car it has nothing going for it, and repairs seem to be needed daily. Other manufacturers (japs) have come out with vehicles which are very capable both on and off road, they are reliable and don't need weekly maintenance. I'm not sure how the new disco's do, but the freelander, defender and old disco's were lethal in crashes too, low speed shunts fine but anything at speed and they are a death trap. A lot of people with landy's are able to mend them themselves, which is part of the reason they still like them, many people say they are no bother but only because they don't mind doing it themselves. The only real reason people still have them is either as a status symbol or because they like them and therefore overlook/don't care about their shortcomings, everyone else buys Jap as they keep moving forward and improving, always have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 but the freelander, defender and old disco's were lethal in crashes too, low speed shunts fine but anything at speed and they are a death trap. Drove a Freelander 2 for 3 years and all it needed were tyres and a healight bulb. Have you owned Landrovers? I'd rather be in a Landrover and crash than anything else. You're in Scarborough, 8 or 10 years ago there were roadworks on Seamer Road, traffic lights where it goes from a 30 to a 40 limit. Sports car (can't remember the type) didn't realise the cars were stopped at lights and went to overtake - hit a Discovery head on. Bloke in sports car killed instantly, family in Disco walked away. You could see it was a Disco, but the sports car didn't even look like a car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Drove a Freelander 2 for 3 years and all it needed were tyres and a healight bulb. Have you owned Landrovers? I'd rather be in a Landrover and crash than anything else. You're in Scarborough, 8 or 10 years ago there were roadworks on Seamer Road, traffic lights where it goes from a 30 to a 40 limit. Sports car (can't remember the type) didn't realise the cars were stopped at lights and went to overtake - hit a Discovery head on. Bloke in sports car killed instantly, family in Disco walked away. You could see it was a Disco, but the sports car didn't even look like a car. Disco's are solid lumps of steel fixed together without any thought for safety - they didn't even go in for the euro ncap tests until disco 3's came out. Very strong in certain circumstances however if they hit something solid (not low sport cars perhaps) but trees, wagons, other large cars etc at speed then they do not crumple in a safely designed way like other cars do. Modern cars bend and distort keeping the passengers in a safety cell while the car twists round them. The car is destroyed but the people inside survive, whereas tank-like structures flatten inwards trapping/killing the occupants. Don't believe me? is a 5th gear crash between a discovery and a Renault Espace (and I wouldn't want to be in one of those in a crash either). See who would walk out, it's a good example of my point.They are finally improving, they've only survived because people either don't think about the safety or school run women believe it's safer to be high up in something big. I got so carried away regarding the safety I forgot to add that it's interesting to know someone got the freelander that worked... actually I understand they did improve them after the first ones, but I haven't had any personal experience of the new ones, the old ones rather put me off. To answer your question no I don't own a LR, I can't afford to spend all my time underneath them and watching my money blow away. However I've spent a lot of time over the last few years driving them and much more so working on series, defender 90/110, freelander, disco 2's, and old range rovers (not the modern ones so I can't comment on them). Edited February 9, 2012 by bedwards1966 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Being a bisexual here ( owning both jap and Land Rover), I feel qualified to compare the two. I own a 2007 Toyota land cruiser which is my daily drive and an N Reg defender 300 TDI. As a daily drive other than being a little thirsty, the land cruiser is perfect although the D4D engines has had a couple of blips with injector issues and oil starvation. The defender is also great fun but was the last of the mechanical engines i.e. there is no ECU and as somebody has pointed out they can rust. In some ways the reputation is undeserved but unfortunately you don't have to go back many years to find that chassis parts were not galvanised and oil leaks were standard from new. It's a case of give a dog a bad name and it will stick. My defender now has 120,000 miles on it and other than normal servicing is fine. It will cruise at 70 and starts first pull. It only does 3000 – 4000 miles a year but I would be quite happy to use it on a daily commute, unfortunately I travel 25 to 30,000 users miles a year and it would just not be practical. Some friends have just bought a 59 plate defender. Even less knee space due to a/c and the big dashboard, you still have to drive with your elbow hanging out of the window but the new transit engine is lovely. Unfortunately it is packed with electronics which is where Land Rover falls over. The disco three and four are great vehicles but are way too complicated with many connectors and ECUs. As the vehicle ages and these start to corrode or vibrate loose you will end up spending loads of time all loads of money identifying these faults whereas the land cruiser still has a manual hi\low selector lever no trick suspension (on our version anyway) so very little to go wrong. Same with my 300 TDI. The point someone made about the Japanese pickups is also correct they were spacious, reliable and reasonably cheap. Will they be running in 20 years time as a old Land Rover will, who knows. The wife did have a very early 1.8 Freedlander. Even taking into account the Rover K series engine being a bag of spanners the rest of the car was still ****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 The wife did have a very early 1.8 Freedlander. Even taking into account the Rover K series engine being a bag of spanners the rest of the car was still ****. :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningDJC Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 I agree in the fact that Land Rover began to go downhill when the first defenders where released, but also this is around the time when the new competition had reached Britain in the name of the Shogun, Trooper etc. The Defender up to around the late 90's will always have the beauty of easily being fixed as everything just unbolts and they are every basic. And even though many think they are horrible to live with, I myself would not personally want one, many do think there is a certain charm about them. The dicoveries, range rovers and freelanders do have many horror stories from all around, but they will continue to sell due to many people regarding them as a status symbol. The fact is the Japanese are very good at mass production, and in my opinion over the years all manufacturers from japan have seemed very good, with the 4x4's being very good also. I do also think that as the new 4x4 double cab pick ups continue to get better and better they will sell more and more, they are getting better and better to drive, having more and more equipment, and are much cheaper than the equivalent manufacturers normal 4x4. I recently switched to a pick up and for shooting the buck is brilliant, no smells in the cab and brilliant for all types of shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Landrover have simply gone too bling too complicated and far too expensive to be a sensible shooting wagon. I've driven all sorts enjoyed it but been keen not to own one and maintain it myself. Justifying spending the same on a 15 year old Defender as a 5 year old Jap pickup is hard to do especially if you use it much and as for taking a D3 lamping and getting it scratched and dented I've not enough money to be able to trash an expensive motor. Thats before you have the issue of where to put dead things and muddy wet dogs that is where the pickups really win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziplex Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 My FL2 is approaching 90,000 miles now and apart from a rear dif' bearing that should of been done under warranty, (long story), it hasn't missed a beat, tyres last the fat end of 40,000 miles, servicing dirt cheap (it is after all a bog standard ford/peugeot engine), comfy, quiet, will sit at 80-90 all day, regulary returns 37mpg, great car in the snow and for mild off roading (limited by tyres fitted) and so on.......... My only complaint is the stereo is ****! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Agree AL4X, way too complicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckytrigger Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Had my td5 for over 3 years after previously owning a Fourtrack and a Vitara. I really like the td5 as its very good off road and a pretty good road car and engine also has plenty of power. Downside has been the niggly bits ive had to sort out plus the build quality isnt the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Owned 4 of them now , RR classic, freelander, disco TD5 and a Disco 3 and I think they always instilled confidence, a good example is how well the disco 3 does on road and offroad! I had a frien follow me in his car yesterday and fair enough it wasnt a sports car but he commented on how the disco wafts along effortlessly. I really liked my TD5 too and to be honest I never had a problem with my freelander in 57k miles... I would say my D3 has had a few problems but nothing too serious... Regards, Gixer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 All this nonsense about jap cars being bulletproof and never breaking down is just received wisdom. My family's business is fixing 4x4s and I can tell you that in general they are no more or less reliable than the LRs. What we do see, though, is that more LRs are used "properly" ie hacked about offroad compared to the jap stuff, and they seem to stand up to the abuse a lot better. I have run 90s, 110s, Discos and Freelanders and they have all been better and more solid than the L200 and the Pajeros I have also had. Only the older Land Cruisers compare well. Never had a Nissan, seen too many go through the workshop and end up on ebay cos the owners don't want to pay the horrendous bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roo_tastic86 Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Been in to off roading and attended/competed in events in the past and quite a few landys about being used but they do get hammered, but best thing is they are easy, in comparison to japs, to repair especially stuff pre-td5/1998. Owned a b reg 90 2.5 n/a d, 2 x range rover classics v8's, and 2 x disco 300tdi's one of these being my last car. the 90 being the best, learnt most about diesel's and mechanics by working on it regurly Not saying jap stuff is no good, had a fourtrak and couldn't fault it, but once a land rover fan, allways, even if you do end up to your elbows in grease, oil and dirt miss all them but cant wait finish college an get myself a 90 Edited February 14, 2012 by roo_tastic86 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 When they became to tecnical to repaired by your average farmer with a hammer and set of mole grips IMO. Seriously i dont think they had a future though as farm veichles once the quad and american style Jap built crew cab pickups came out. they were always going wrong its just the fixes got harder and more demanding of tooling. I have put a lot of rear crosmembers, out riggers, footwells into the older ones. Along with back main oil seals constantly dripping oil, weel bearings being ruined by missing /torn/rotted leather gaiters. The first defender i ever got to drive the prop broke going over an easy field! No they were never that good just easy to fix. The Japs gave us 4x4's that didn't need fixing - what a consept that was +1 Spot on assesment of the Landrover mythology !!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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