tomhw100 Posted February 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) If I were you chap I would learn when to keep quiet and not make yourself look any more stupid. Picture this. I'll put it simply for you, so that even you can understand. Big steep mountain. Trees in valley at bottom. Stand in valley or on hill on opposite side of valley, fire up into trees. Whats behind trees ? A ruddy great mountain as a backstop. safe innit even 4 u !!! [/quote if i where you mate id stop being so arrogant-im not making myself look stupid at all you have jumped to all these conclusions,saying I'm stupid i went to a rubbish school etc . for a man of your age i thought you would of actually 'grown up ' a bit. ill put it simply for you and say it slowly so you can understand... firstly when did we speak of mountains? and even if you did how do you know there is know one walking around on them mountains...a very slight chance i agree but it could still happen. Don't take the **** because you can't debate like an adult...my post is referring to people who shoot stuff in trees with a high powered rifle you included. Why can't we just talk sense? if you shoot up into a tree and miss and the bullet passes through it could come down anywhere its not good practice and you bloodywell know it. i admit I'm not as experienced as you and your 50 years of FAC ownership,but i have used a 22.lr a 17hmr and a 223. more than enough with my mates to know how dangerous and powerful they are, just because I've not experienced with a .243 doesn't mean i don't know they're capabilities and that part of the argument to you and the other posters who have said I'm to young and inexperienced is absolute rubbish.... just to add I'm not disagreeing that a mountain or hill is not a safe backstop thats not really what i was saying though maybe i jumped the gun a bit hastily...i just had visions of this person walking round in woods with a .243 shooting jackdaws and rooks like you would with an air gun for that i am sorry...but i still believe you shouldn't! Edited February 18, 2012 by tomhw100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhw100 Posted February 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 It's topics like these that highlight both the truly experienced shots and the newbies/armchair shooters. I can think of several here who I've had a run in with at some point - Charlie, Dekers.... We've all had our little disagreements but here I have to back them 100% on this subject! Yes shooting into a tree with sky behind it is a bad idea but a tree with a hill behind it is fine. As for the ricochet from a branch, well you'll find quite a few really experienced guys who have had what can only be described as a ricochet off of the bones of a Deer. You're starting to talk about something that can happen but is so extremely unlikely that it can be dismissed from the arguement. Ie, you can't stay home all your life so you don't get run over by a bus because then you may die in a house fire - life has small risks and we have to calculate them and get on with it. Comments like "Would your FEO like to know" really get my back up! Maybe they wouldn't, but then I won't be the first or last to tell you that many of them have limited experience of what they do. I've even had them ring me for calibre advice (I **** you not - I'm serious)! Each to their own. If you don't like it then don't do it, but as long as you have a clear view through the branches (ie no leaves) then a tree with a steep hill behind it is as safe a shot as a standing Deer with a steep hill behind it! im not a newbie or armchair shooter thankyou, i appreciate your points escpecialy those on the FEO- i just meant if you did tell him that he wouldnt of granted the fAC in the first place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) At the end of the day the individual responsibility of making sure the shot is safe is with the guy that pulls the trigger whether it is a .22 or a .50BMG. If it's not then the concequences are theirs alone to bear. Nobody can judge whether a shot is safe from behind a keyboard or on a forum so we should each trust each other as FAC holders to be taking safe shots that are not going to bring the sport into disrepute. Edited February 18, 2012 by Livefast123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 I wasn't really pointing at anyone specifically with that comment. I just found it rather ammusing that several posters jumped on the topic with "you can't do that, end of story". You can do it safely in the right place. I think you'd have to be pretty daft to shoot up into a tree if you were standing under it and nobody is questioning that. If I get a chance I'll take some pictures of the ground where I do it and you can judge for yourself. But picture a steep valley with a line of trees in the bottom which once the leaves have dropped aren't thick enough to block your view of what's going on behind them. I've shot Crows and Squirrels out of them with all sorts of guns and with a good strong Deer bullet you can watch the quarry explode and then a split second later watch the splash of the bullet hitting the bank and flipping up a sod of turf. I think if you took an experienced FEO out and showed them exactly what you wanted to do they would be fine, but I agree that if you were sat on the sofa in the interview and said "I want to shoot Crows out of trees" then it wouldn't look good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhw100 Posted February 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) At the end of the day the individual responsibility of making sure the shot is safe is with the guy that pulls the trigger whether it is a .22 or a .50BMG. If it's not then the concequences are theirs alone to bear. Nobody can judge whether a shot is safe from behind a keyboard or on a forum so we should each trust each other as FAC holders to be taking safe shots that are not going to bring the sport into disrepute. i agree- Charlie T and your mate George i am sorry i jumped the gun....maybe a sign of my 'inexperience' lets leave it at that...you can see my side of the argument though. Edited February 18, 2012 by tomhw100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWD Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 I guess the OP was asking would you shoot at a bird sitting in a tree if behind such bird was only blue sky. I have my opinion ..straight up say 5 deg variable from vertical (standing at the base of the tree the birds in..uncomfortable shot mind)..the bullet would loose all its power cutting through air on its way up to the moon and fall to earth with all the danger of an acorn, at a slightly lower angle say 20 to 35deg then the bullet will be under some power on its arc back to ground cant see that being too safe unless your in the middle of a remote highland. With a backdrop of earth (hill,mountain or even more trees)behind the target I cant see any problems. If its for roost shooting I would use a FAC air rifle..as its cheaper and quieter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deputy dog Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 I'm glad i made a flask, as i knew this thread would be too lively to get up and make a cuppa :lol: DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ550Kevlar Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 I too admit i shoot things out of trees like pests etc etc, i have permission that forms a valley and i have both sides of it, i pull off the road and the top of the ridge line and a row of trees runs along the lowest part of the valley, when i look through my scope at ever branch there is green or brown behind it, this being the case if i miss the shot will travel through into the ground, what`s wrong with that as from what i have read this was the type of shooting the other chaps were doing that are being talked about, however i don`t do it with trees with leaves as then i can`t see the reverse side. Am i on the wrong end of the stick with the scenario? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhw100 Posted February 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 I too admit i shoot things out of trees like pests etc etc, i have permission that forms a valley and i have both sides of it, i pull off the road and the top of the ridge line and a row of trees runs along the lowest part of the valley, when i look through my scope at ever branch there is green or brown behind it, this being the case if i miss the shot will travel through into the ground, what`s wrong with that as from what i have read this was the type of shooting the other chaps were doing that are being talked about, however i don`t do it with trees with leaves as then i can`t see the reverse side. Am i on the wrong end of the stick with the scenario? no mate your right like i said i jumped the gun a bit...if there is a safe backstop e.g. a mountain or hill (still not in my eyes totally safe but anyway) i think it would be ok, not ideal, not compleltey right just ok,shooting straight up into a tree as you suggest is what i don't agree with- just to make it clear to you and every one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Mac Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Well Tomhw100 you really have opened a can of worms Please allow some other shooters to decide if it is a safe shot before you rip them to bits because you can not see the wood for the trees Cheers K Mac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckaroo23 Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david hunter Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 common sense will provail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scaffman73 Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 I'm not saying down into valleys or what ever If you stand under a tree and shoot up into it with a 243 your a **** as far as I'm concerned,you are twisting my words I never said shooting at ground level was wrong did I,my English is fine thankyou I'm writing on my. Mobile as I'm sitting in a hide bored,why does it show I'm inexperienced? I'm talking sense. Believe me mate I don't take delight in dressing down old boys who are stuck in there ways if you had a fac for 50 years you should know better Reading that quote, says it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartynGT4 Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 And to think I thought PW was a nice place to hang out! The guy raised the perfectly sensible question of the relative safety of taking tree shots with a CF. There are going to times where the shooter will evaluate the situation and be confident the shot is safe to take. Equally there will be times when a shot is considered unsafe or confidence in safety isn't high enough. Instead of jumping on the guy, bringing his education and experience into question, couldn't the subject be debated and discussed! Surely it have been more constructive to discuss the shot \ no shot decision making process? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) And to think I thought PW was a nice place to hang out! The guy raised the perfectly sensible question of the relative safety of taking tree shots with a CF. There are going to times where the shooter will evaluate the situation and be confident the shot is safe to take. Equally there will be times when a shot is considered unsafe or confidence in safety isn't high enough. Instead of jumping on the guy, bringing his education and experience into question, couldn't the subject be debated and discussed! Surely it have been more constructive to discuss the shot \ no shot decision making process? Actually I thought the OP gave his own opinion on the subject of an arguement and invited discussion about it - then got the discussion he requested. That makes PW a very helpfull place to be IMO. :blink: Edited February 19, 2012 by Dave-G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 I think the OP got the reaction he as looking for, let's hope he doesn't get bored again too soon eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodit Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) First off read first line of signature. As for the question it all depends on the circumstances of the shot. I mean even firing straight up could be dangerous if you had a low flying microlite etc passing over head :blink: I personally would be very dubious about firing my 22lr up into a tree but people do shooting squirrels and as far as they are concerned it's safe. Well I hope they think its safe otherwise they are stupid. If in doubt dont! As for the low flying microlite "If it can happen it will happen" Neil Edited February 19, 2012 by sodit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhw100 Posted February 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) Reading that quote, says it all. So what your saying is you've never had a **** day on the pigeons? well I must bow down to you then... Good pic....not sure every one disagrees though. Edited February 19, 2012 by tomhw100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulpicide Posted February 19, 2012 Report Share Posted February 19, 2012 First they tried to introduce Facts as if that was'nt bad enough some of these clowns started talking about "COMMON SENSE" nae wonder ye cannae get a decent blood bath started on PW now :yp: And as for lamping ROOKS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activeviii Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 First they tried to introduce Facts as if that was'nt bad enough some of these clowns started talking about "COMMON SENSE" nae wonder ye cannae get a decent blood bath started on PW now :yp: And as for lamping ROOKS LAMPING ROCKS!!!!! now that's silly, you might get a ricochet. Popcorn's ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasus bridge Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 i dont know if i am dreaming this - but does anyone remember an early episode of river cottage; in which HFW was shooting pigeons off the roof of the landlords barn ? (i'm sure it was a .22lr he was using - but might be wrong and i will happily stand corrected!) btw - i'm not saying this is safe - just an observation ; its up to each and everyone of us to call a safe shot at the end of the day based on the situation we find ourselves in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bi9johnny Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 i dont know if i am dreaming this - but does anyone remember an early episode of river cottage; in which HFW was shooting pigeons off the roof of the landlords barn ? (i'm sure it was a .22lr he was using - but might be wrong and i will happily stand corrected!) btw - i'm not saying this is safe - just an observation ; its up to each and everyone of us to call a safe shot at the end of the day based on the situation we find ourselves in yes he did with the old boy who owned the big house Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenhunter Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 There was absolutely no need for this post. Other than it would have been less hilarious viewing new content. Correct me if I am wrong but I suggested the scenario that turned out to be almost correct on the first page of that original post about lamping rooks. I don't have any land where this is a remote possibility so I had to use my imagination(of which I have lots being an ex-art teacher, it comes with the territory) and not my experience. I assumed the OP had sense enough to be shooting safely and not shooting with a blue back-stop. Its easy to get hung up on certain 'rules' surrounding shooting and then jump to conclusions, 2+2=5, etc I can only assume the complainant had ulterior motives and chose to ignore the realities of the situation. It was entertaining though, wasn't it :lol: GH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbust Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 I've Been arguing with two people on another post who believe its acceptable to shoot a hmr and a 243 you heard right a 243 at stuff in trees with an apparently'safe' backdrop.I think itts outrageous ad damn right dangerous,what if you missed or skimmed the tree or branch...feos would be spitting blood! Your views please chaps Well done Tom, once again you get what you want and have a wee thread going about what you state is wrong but most other sensible members know different. If you look at your original post you sort of **** your argument against it when you sate "stuff in trees with an apparently'safe' backdrop". I think the people who were arguing with you on the other thread know what they meant and you have just went off on one of your Holier than thou statements. You then spend your last few posts back tracking and agreeing with the others. Same old, same old. Why do you do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Well done Tom, once again you get what you want and have a wee thread going about what you state is wrong but most other sensible members know different. If you look at your original post you sort of **** your argument against it when you sate "stuff in trees with an apparently'safe' backdrop". I think the people who were arguing with you on the other thread know what they meant and you have just went off on one of your Holier than thou statements. You then spend your last few posts back tracking and agreeing with the others. Same old, same old. Why do you do it? We're all creatures of habit - it took a lot of doing for me to stop drinking and smoking, I finally got forced into it by being financially castrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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