NI Licence Fee Proposals

[Cannon]

Copied and pasted from the BASC website.

 

BASC is fighting proposals to increase firearm certificate fees in Northern Ireland.

 

The proposals are part of the NI Firearms Consultation which is currently undergoing Justice Committee scrutiny at Stormont before being made public.

 

BASC understands that the draft consultation document proposes a 140 per cent increase in the cost of a firearm certificate which would jump from £50 to £120.

 

The draft document also proposes a 365 per cent increase in the cost of a firearms dealer’s certificate, which would increase from £150 to £697.

 

BASC is strongly opposed to any increase in licensing fees without a full, independent, transparent and public review of the necessary processes within firearms licensing. BASC is also concerned that there are no proper service standards, competency requirements or customer satisfaction measures in place.

 

Tommy Mayne, BASC Northern Ireland director, said: “These proposals put more pressure on our firearms dealers who for many years have struggled to make a living given the very long delays within our firearms licensing system. While there is no denying that processing times have improved dramatically over the past 18 months or so, our licensing system is far from perfect and these very substantial increases come at a time when there are added difficulties as a result of the economic climate."

 

BASC is lobbying members of the Justice Committee to voice its opposition to the proposed fees increase.

 

I know this has been talked about before in a speculative manner, but the figures are there now in black and white. Don't know what to make of the increase the dealers face. Obviously someone somewhere has crunched the numbers and came out with the conclusion that the dealers could afford it. Maybe the better turnaround times have enabled dealers to sell more guns, thus justifying the increase. Interesting to see how this is going to play out.

[tweedledee]

it`s coming no doubt. 120 for five years ain`t too bad? it`s the variation or add on i heard could be up to 70 quid a time. that would hurt me more lol

[Cannon]

Tell me about it lol. I wouldn't mind paying the £120 if the service was there, but the variation fee should remain the same. I feel it is fair as is. If it went up it would cripple both shooters and dealers, and it would make it even more difficult to try different guns until you find one that you actually like (rather than pretend to like because you know there's a mountain of paperwork to fill in to change it again) lol.

[tweedledee]

just spent my evening filling in forms. totally scundered lol. defo my last time till my next renewal

[Cannon]

That's what I said. 3 variations later and I just finished filling out the paperwork for another lol. Definitely the last one for a while!

[snowblind66]

Not that much of a jump in the grand scheme of things

[tweedledee]

defo my last.famous last words.paperwork would scunder anyone.

[chappers83]

Iv heard about the new fee being £120 by end of year, not about the variation being £70 a go, didnt want to pay the £26 never mind paying that!! Think it might be time to get finger out n get my .22lr sorted out sharpish!!

[SneakyD]

Shooters are far to accepting. We say, this increase is reasonable, then the next and then the next. People which want to get rid of private firearms never accept what they have, they always push for more.

[Cannon]

Shooters are far to accepting. We say, this increase is reasonable, then the next and then the next. People which want to get rid of private firearms never accept what they have, they always push for more.

 

I understand what you are saying, but in the event that a further increase was proposed in the next say 10 years, I'm sure there would be a bigger stink kicked up about it.

[SneakyD]

I understand what you are saying, but in the event that a further increase was proposed in the next say 10 years, I'm sure there would be a bigger stink kicked up about it.

What sort of stink would there be in say 5 years? Shooters will say "it hasn't gone up in 5 years and £270 isn't so bad, it's less than 15p a day."

 

We're far to reasonable, or should I say frightened/powerless?

[Cannon]

What do you suggest? By the sounds of it the matter is already out of our hands.

[the enigma]

Of course it's out of our hands.As with these things,any sort of consultation is just window dressing,the decisions have been made long ago. Maybe I'm being overly cynical,but could the sudden improvement in turn around times for applications,after years of poor service,have been a ploy to justify higher fees without people kicking up a stink?

 

No matter,I'd be happy enough to pay £120 for 5 years,if it means applications being sorted out in a couple of weeks.

 

At least mine is up for renewal next month........... how's that for good timing.

[SneakyD]

What do you suggest? By the sounds of it the matter is already out of our hands.

Before my rant, I want to make it clear that I'm not having a go at you, I'm just venting my frustration.

 

/Rant/

 

What I am saying is there is nothing we can do. If they raised the price from £50 to £5,000, we could complain but they don't have to listen. If we complain too loudly, they could take our certs. Who do you think the voting public would back?

 

Meanwhile young people are less likely to become shooters as the licence has more than doubled in price. In 5 years after everyone has been through the new higher cost system, there could be fewer voices of complaint as some will not renew and some will not make the initial application.

 

£120 for 5 years is not too much for some of us, indeed many of us could easily afford that for a year. But for young people coming to an already expensive sport/hobby it could be too much. For older people on fixed incomes it could be the straw that brakes the camels back.

 

My plan to secure the sport is the same as most people's on this forum, to introduce as many new people to shooting as I can. The doubling of the f.a.c cost will make it that much harder.

 

It just annoys me that there is nothing I can do about it.

 

/Rant over/

Edited June 17, 2012 by SneakyD

[mossy835]

if you like shooting then,£120 for 5 years is not bad.

[rapid rich]

if you like shooting then,£120 for 5 years is not bad.

 

If thats what its going to cost, then thats what its going to be.

 

What BASC are asking for is transparency and a breakdown of the costs, which surely we are entitled to?

 

In reality theres nothing much we can do about risng costs, Its another nail in the coffin for the small RFD's too

 

No doubt that this fee increase is going to lower firearms numbers held here, firstly they tried burying people with forms/paperwork to sicken them from having firearms and now I can't help but feel this fee increase is the next thing on the agenda to lower firearms numbers here.

[Pastiebap]

The plan is for "Total Cost Recovery", from what I have heard coming from FEB, the cost new proposed cost in Northern Ireland will be about half that of mainland UK (although this may well be propoganda). This was one of the reasons for the one on one off being expanded (a sweetner for RFD's).

 

Some bright spark somewhere has sat down and made a speculative review of the work entailed in processing FAC applications. There was also a lean review where they looked at the time spent within FEB actually working on FAC's. This is why things are quicker, because they are cutting corners and omitting processes in order to get the time down and to "look good". Such processes that were routinely performed such as criminal intelligence checks are no longer carried out as a matter of routine. Hence you will start seeing a lot more people out there who as a shooter and local you know probably suitable suitable to have guns.

 

FEB are no friends of shooting. I was at a meal with the current head of FEB where he stated that his responsibility is NOT to the shooring community, it is to keep the other 1.7 million non-shooters in Northern Ireland safe from the shooting community. That is what we're up against.

[Cannon]

BASC asking for a breakdown of the costs is all well and good, but anybody could write a list of requirements and put a monetary value beside them. The FEB know that any news gets spread quickly within the shooting community over here, so no doubt they will make no effort to formally present the proposals to certificate holders. The onus, as always is on us to find out. Another example of cutting corners.

 

It's difficult at the minute to introduce new people to the sport, so as Sneaky D has mentioned it will no doubt become a more difficult task with the proposed increases. Those that have a genuine passion for the sport will continue to shoot, but those who shoot too infrequently to be called shooters will probably knock it in the head. It's an easy way to reduce the number of legally held firearms over here.

 

They should start with all the PPW's. People who have a history of involvement in drugs/violence and general crimes should not be allowed to carry guns.

[tweedledee]

why start with personal protection weapons? think them folk have a right to carry them to defend themselves in a time when dissident republicans are tryin hard to get a score on the board. absolute travesty to do that.them folk served our country and should have at least the right to defend themselves

Edited June 17, 2012 by tweedledee

[pat 1]

why start with personal protection weapons? think them folk have a right to carry them to defend themselves in a time when dissident republicans are tryin hard to get a score on the board. absolute travesty to do that.them folk served our country and should have at least the right to defend themselves

[/qu

I cannot see any logic in what you say. If they have a right and a need to defend themselves then we all have that right. Then maybe if we all had that right to defend ourselves the hoods would not have a free hand.

[tweedledee]

think there is abig difference mate. ex security forces are prime targets for dissidents.think with their service they at least have the right to carry ppw

[HDAV]

 

FEB are no friends of shooting. I was at a meal with the current head of FEB where he stated that his responsibility is NOT to the shooring community, it is to keep the other 1.7 million non-shooters in Northern Ireland safe from the shooting community. That is what we're up against.

Indeed liscencing is of no benefit to the shooter, only to the "general public" because of course the person shooting clays, rabbits, pigeons, paper targets for pest control/leisure is primary issue for public safety and gun crime

 

There is an argument that the full cost should be born by none shooters. As they are beneficiaries of the system!

 

On the mainland its going to go the same way.... it is ridiculous but what can be done? Paying £120 isn't the issue it is the lack of service, accountability and consistency.

[Cannon]

I wasn't referring to ex security forces. I was referring to the known paramilitary figureheads within the communities that are permitted to have PPW's for their own protection. They put themselves in the position they are in, therefore they should be prepared to accept the consequences. There were something like 2000 Walther PPK's issued as PPW's over here during the troubles, not to mention the numerous other types of firearms that were issued. How much justification was needed to get handed a gun? The FEB need to clamp down on the fakers and bluffers, which would no doubt remove a considerable amount of firearms from circulation, thus making the whole process faster and simpler for genuine shooters.

[Pastiebap]

I wasn't referring to ex security forces. I was referring to the known paramilitary figureheads within the communities that are permitted to have PPW's for their own protection. They put themselves in the position they are in, therefore they should be prepared to accept the consequences. There were something like 2000 Walther PPK's issued as PPW's over here during the troubles, not to mention the numerous other types of firearms that were issued. How much justification was needed to get handed a gun? The FEB need to clamp down on the fakers and bluffers, which would no doubt remove a considerable amount of firearms from circulation, thus making the whole process faster and simpler for genuine shooters.

 

The issue is the whole ECHR, to remove them would be a breach of their human rights.

[pat 1]

think there is abig difference mate. ex security forces are prime targets for dissidents.think with their service they at least have the right to carry ppw

 

I must agree with you on this one mate. Then again I dont think the security forces were the only ones targeted in the past or am I missing something here?. There have been of late a few threats from various quarters and I for one will not condone one threat from one thug over any other.Those types of people deserve nothing but disgust from everyone.

But we are getting away from the main point. Us sportsmen are being brought into this whole thing and are being made to pay for a service which we have a right to. We as usual are easy targets for the powers that be to fleece. BASC and other organisations seem content to take the fools money in return for hand wringing and excuses. No matter how you play it an increase in the fee is not justified. With technology the fee should be reduced instead of being increased. Some may announce that 120 pounds or whatever is nothing,all I say is bully to them. Someone with more insight than I should investigate this move and I think they will discover there is more to it than meets the eye. No doubt there is some entity making a profit out of it all at our expence. I know it will not be done but if every shooter complained to their individual over paid MLA this whole epesode could be resolved to our satisfaction. This is a money making scheme,nothing more nothing less. The more the ordinary pleb pays the more there is left for our masters on the hill.