kdubya Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 And what about the employers who are not greedy , what about those small businesses that are struggling , paying the minimum wage could be the difference between them floating or sinking , so they pay more then sink and more go on the dole for the like of you and me to pay for , good plan --------not If they are paying minimum wages then WE are supporting their profit making simple as, if they are struggling tough, find a better enterprise, one that will pay dividends, and does not need back hander out of the tax payers pocket, why the hell do you think the employers like a shed full of immigrants, its not because "they work harder" that's a load of ball sacks, its because they can afford to work for less, and greedy scheming employers know and use that to the fullest advantage. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted July 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 I read posts saying that people should have to work for their dole, then in the same breath condemning tax credits. Isn't a tax credit a way of getting someone off the dole and into useful employment ? Some of these tax-credit supported jobs are horrible, I don't think many people want to work in menial low-paid jobs, but at least they've got off their ***** and made an effort. I have no problem with my tax money going to help people who are trying to help themselves, pity there aren't more of them. Some of us dont really have much choice as there is little work here that pays "a decent wage" (£18k+) but I would rather be working than sat at home techinally earning more.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storme37 Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 as someone said if you are working full time you should be earning a wage that is enough that you dont need to subsidize it with benefits, maybe the minimum wage needs looking at so people cannot get away with paying **** wages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 as someone said if you are working full time you should be earning a wage that is enough that you dont need to subsidize it with benefits, maybe the minimum wage needs looking at so people cannot get away with paying **** wages. Some enterprises margins only allow for **** wages though. On the smaller farms the hands take more than the farmer. Admittedly he does get the house and landy thrown in though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storme37 Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 ok i would take £6 per hour with a house and landy sounds fair lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 The thing is once you have squeezed the most out of machinery, plant, technology etc, the only thing you can do is 'throw more meat at the problem'. In the western world certainly the limit of the human capacity for being taken the **** out of at work has not yet been reached. If the machines can't do more, the people will, and they usually do. There must be literally billions in unpaid overtime going on in salaried jobs as we speak. Makes many people who look like they earn a decent salary worse of per hour than many others who look like they don't There was a point to this post when I started it but I can't remember what it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted July 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 ok i would take £6 per hour with a house and landy sounds fair lol so would i am the mortgage alone takes 75% of my wage most months Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo90 Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 so would i am the mortgage alone takes 75% of my wage most months can i just say good on you for working and well done on paying your mortgage......i know what its like to struggle. I am all for benefits for low paid and assistance to get people working.....you shouldn't need tax credits, you should be better off for working. there is an argument for minimum wage to be higher, but if that puts small businesses under then thats not good either as that would make the situation worse. my brother in law runs his own business and employs about 30 people.......talking to him and he was saying that this country really needs a smaller public sector and to increase its exports.....his opinion and one i tend to agree with is that if we make and sell more stuff the country gets richer, he compared it to Japan who have a small public sector (roughly the same sized military and police as we have, but not so many in council and government employment, ) most are employed in manufacturing and they export nearly everything they make from Cars and tv's to piano's and organs....motorbikes and mobile phones......and the laptop i am sat using now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 can i just say good on you for working and well done on paying your mortgage......i know what its like to struggle. I am all for benefits for low paid and assistance to get people working.....you shouldn't need tax credits, you should be better off for working. there is an argument for minimum wage to be higher, but if that puts small businesses under then thats not good either as that would make the situation worse. my brother in law runs his own business and employs about 30 people.......talking to him and he was saying that this country really needs a smaller public sector and to increase its exports.....his opinion and one i tend to agree with is that if we make and sell more stuff the country gets richer, he compared it to Japan who have a small public sector (roughly the same sized military and police as we have, but not so many in council and government employment, ) most are employed in manufacturing and they export nearly everything they make from Cars and tv's to piano's and organs....motorbikes and mobile phones......and the laptop i am sat using now. I find it amazing that a country this size need 6 hundred and odd mp's USA has one for every state, anyone know how many counties there are in the UK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) I find it amazing that a country this size need 6 hundred and odd mp's USA has one for every state, anyone know how many counties there are in the UK? you forget about "the lower house" ( equivalent of our MP's)there are about 430 Representatives in it so add them to the senators, the number of reps per state in the lower house is proportional to the states population KW Edited July 6, 2012 by kdubya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Right I'm going to settle this once a for all, for all those who forgot their GCSE Business Studies: THIS is why we work (apparently): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canis Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) three sensinble points and one less so make on this topic: 1. I do think the logistical nightmare of taxing someone then paying them tax credits is balmy- lets move the tax boundary to the point where someone like the OP is simply not taxed. 2, I would also like to see married people able to share their PAYE tax free so that if one parent is stay at home while the other works there is a slight reward for it. 3. Every society has a proportion of low paid **** jobs that are at best unexciting and at worst hard graft or mildly dangerous. This does not mean that these jobs are not essential cogs in the countries machine m. unfortunately the safety net we created with the welfare state makes the people that could do these jobs or train to do these jobs choose not to because the welfare state would actually reward them more for not working. This also becomes a doubly vicious circle because : A the **** jobs are done by transient foreifgners who send the money they earn home. B the man doing the **** job now has to be taxed to pay for the workshy that wont get out of bed to do the **** jobs. I dont know quite what the answer is to force the 2nd generation workshy into employment. On a local scale I have 2 friends who are brothers, while they where growing up it was made very clear to them (backed up with work expoerience) that there would allways be a job for them in the family print finishing busness- it would be long hours of hard repetive graft loading paper products in and out of a "Muller" finishing machine for distintly average money. It encouraged one to go to college to get a trade, the other to university - perhaps what we need is a "Muller" on a national scale! 4. Three or four pages in WelshLamb indicated that she "doesn't have a sperm count" and we appear to gave gone a further 8 pages without anyone offering to rectify the situation. Have we all grown up or something ? Edited July 6, 2012 by Canis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 three sensinble points and one less so make on this topic: 1. I do think the logistical nightmare of taxing someone then paying them tax credits is balmy- lets move the tax boundary to the point where someone like the OP is simply not taxed. 2, I would also like to see married people able to share their PAYE tax free so that if one parent is stay at home while the other works there is a slight reward for it. 3. Every society has a proportion of low paid **** jobs that are at best unexciting and at worst hard graft or mildly dangerous. This does not mean that these jobs are not essential cogs in the countries machine m. unfortunately the safety net we created with the welfare state makes the people that could do these jobs or train to do these jobs choose not to because the welfare state would actually reward them more for not working. This also becomes a doubly vicious circle because : A the **** jobs are done by transient foreifgners who send the money they earn home. B the man doing the **** job now has to be taxed to pay for the workshy that wont get out of bed to do the **** jobs. I dont know quite what the answer is to force the 2nd generation workshy into employment. On a local scale I have 2 friends who are brothers, while they where growing up it was made very clear to them (backed up with work expoerience) that there would allways be a job for them in the family print finishing busness- it would be long hours of hard repetive graft loading paper products in and out of a "Muller" finishing machine for distintly average money. It encouraged one to go to college to get a trade, the other to university - perhaps what we need is a "Muller" on a national scale! 4. Three or four pages in WelshLamb indicated that she "doesn't have a sperm count" and we appear to gave gone a further 8 pages without anyone offering to rectify the situation. Have we all grown up or something ? What a great post, and I'll let you have point four too and points one to three were so well made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 To follow on from Thunderbird's GCSE Business Studies, those who did A-Level Economics will remember that all capitalist economies have a natural unemployment rate and without this runaway inflation follows. Now you can adopt the American approach and let the unemployed starve, or you can remember that thy are also human and provide a basic safety net. I do think there is scope for benefit reform and ensuring it doesn't become a lifestyle choice but the I'm alright jack mentality really gets my goat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 To follow on from Thunderbird's GCSE Business Studies, those who did A-Level Economics will remember that all capitalist economies have a natural unemployment rate and without this runaway inflation follows. Now you can adopt the American approach and let the unemployed starve, or you can remember that thy are also human and provide a basic safety net. I do think there is scope for benefit reform and ensuring it doesn't become a lifestyle choice but the I'm alright jack mentality really gets my goat and by lord there are more than few alright jacks on this forum. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemini52 Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 I'm not sure what your point is, other than to wheel out some tired old cliche. I don't need people preaching to me about what I put in and don't put in. I have owned my own business for about 13 years, which was initially successful. We then hit a bad patch, I had to sell my home, one of our two cars and make all manner of cutbacks, as the business could no longer afford to pay me. Working Families Tax Credits (benefits) was a Godsend. It enabled me to survive long enough to get the business back on track, without having to go with some knee-jerk reaction, shut it all down and go out and get some **** job. It is now getting back on track, it's not like it used to be, but it's on the mend, and I no longer need the safety net. What I won't tolerate is some cheap cornholing ****bag calling me a ******* scrounger because I needed a safety net for a year or two. As I said earlier, I'm waiting for the day when one of these sanctimonious ********* needs that safety net, I'll laugh in their face. In my case there is no safety net my wife works twenty hours a week at tesco,i am self employed and find in the winter time work drys up in the past have tried to get job seekers,and have been told i am not entitled to it because my wife earns to much hardly say 100 quid a week to keep us and pay are way is any were sufficient Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storme37 Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 when i had my transport business i remember when work was quiet i couldnt get anything either because my wife worked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brin Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 you have at least got youre pride well done but tell them to stuff the overtime a man that works for nowt and a women that fuxxs for nowt will never be out of work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 as someone said if you are working full time you should be earning a wage that is enough that you dont need to subsidize it with benefits, maybe the minimum wage needs looking at so people cannot get away with paying **** wages. the problem with the minimum wage is the word minimum. Whatever it is will never be enough. Another poorly thought out concept IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 I find it amazing that a country this size need 6 hundred and odd mp's USA has one for every state, anyone know how many counties there are in the UK? Its only the MPs who think we need so many. Wonder if we started a petition to cut the number we'd reach the magic 100,000 signatures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted July 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 the problem with the minimum wage is the word minimum. Whatever it is will never be enough. Another poorly thought out concept IMO Disagree there....its more to do with the amount of benefit you recieve when "looking" for work... Its a hard call as I have been both out of work and on the sick ..the amount the "basic" is pitifull...SSP at £82 a week..not even enough to cover half my mortgage and then job seekers at £63..that was nearly 10 years ago tho.... I think that if you are looking for work over a year then benefits should be cut down to reflex this and not make benefits a lifestyle choice... Its when you take into accoutn housing, council and other sides of the benefits that means you are sometimes better off not working Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silpig5 Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Disagree there....its more to do with the amount of benefit you recieve when "looking" for work... Its a hard call as I have been both out of work and on the sick ..the amount the "basic" is pitifull...SSP at £82 a week..not even enough to cover half my mortgage and then job seekers at £63..that was nearly 10 years ago tho.... I think that if you are looking for work over a year then benefits should be cut down to reflex this and not make benefits a lifestyle choice... Its when you take into accoutn housing, council and other sides of the benefits that means you are sometimes better off not working "Would be better off if myself and partner were on the dole or just did not work as many hours each " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted July 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 "Would be better off if myself and partner were on the dole or just did not work as many hours each " You are right Adi..three ways to look at it... 1. Once we have paid out child care now for SWMBO to actually go to work..we end up the the grand sum of £300 a month...get more on benefits 2. SWMBO stay at home...then a very low income family...get paid MORE for her to stay there with all the extras you get...thats the part that really annoys me. 3. We both work extra hours all we can with overtime, dont earn MORE that the benefits you get but then because you done more hours get the help taken away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smig4373 Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 I refer to my signature 'I WORK 40HRS A WEEK TO BE THIS POOR'.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caisterboy Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) and by lord there are more than few alright jacks on this forum. KW Double thumbs up from me to you and guest1957 Edited July 6, 2012 by Caisterboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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