bornfree Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 I've been using a WMR with a pulsar n550 for around a year now on fox. and 7 times out of 10 it drops them on the spot or within 10 yards which is ok (all boiler room shots)but its the odd few which run when hit that i'am not happy with.so i'am thinking of stepping up a bit i dont reload so 22 hornet is out as the gunshops here dont keep the ammo.so i was thinking of 222 or 223 what do you reccommend.(max range about 100 yards) bornfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie-fox Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 hi Bornfree either of those calibers will do on a fox out past 200 yards.. i have a tikka 223 and a A-bolt i use 50grn sako rounds and have never had a runner..in my oppinion the 223 is a purfect fox round and if you have the odd muntjac in your area it will be legal to use.. a lot of people use 222 but ive never used one so cant comment.. lots of decent second hand 223s on the market and most gunshops have a good supply of ammo.. Rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 There is one possibility before moving up calibre. With 100 yard max the original 50gn Federal was the fox round of choice but now the velocity is well down. Its place has been taken by the RWS. This is a bit of a brute. If you've not already tried them, and as you are so close to your requirement, it may just do the trick if they suit your rifle before forking out for a canon in relation to your needs. Worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tikka.223 Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 What ammo are you using? For WMR I always find 30gr V-max do the job everytime but with the WMR I always go for head shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornfree Posted July 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 I'am using 40g cci hollow points which work the best in my cz. the pulsar only has 4.5mag so head shots would be risky. bornfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 The 550 doubler would take care of your head shots - it improves clarity aswell as the magnification - no problem fitted to the 222 though either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 I've been using a WMR with a pulsar n550 for around a year now on fox. and 7 times out of 10 it drops them on the spot or within 10 yards which is ok (all boiler room shots)but its the odd few which run when hit that i'am not happy with.so i'am thinking of stepping up a bit i dont reload so 22 hornet is out as the gunshops here dont keep the ammo.so i was thinking of 222 or 223 what do you reccommend.(max range about 100 yards) bornfree .222 all the way .It`s a smooth shooting round,very flat with 35/40 gr ammo and universally accurate really. If you think you need the `extra` of a .223 you really need a 22/250 or .220 swift,I`ve never understood why anyone wants a .223! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 (edited) There is one possibility before moving up calibre. With 100 yard max the original 50gn Federal was the fox round of choice but now the velocity is well down. Its place has been taken by the RWS. This is a bit of a brute. If you've not already tried them, and as you are so close to your requirement, it may just do the trick if they suit your rifle before forking out for a canon in relation to your needs. Worth a try. Without wanting to hijack the thread can you give us any more information on the RWS ammunition please? Edited July 15, 2012 by Frenchieboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 I've been using a WMR with a pulsar n550 for around a year now on fox. and 7 times out of 10 it drops them on the spot or within 10 yards which is ok (all boiler room shots)but its the odd few which run when hit that i'am not happy with.so i'am thinking of stepping up a bit i dont reload so 22 hornet is out as the gunshops here dont keep the ammo.so i was thinking of 222 or 223 what do you reccommend.(max range about 100 yards) bornfree In fairness ant RFD will get you hornet facory ammo in to order in reasonable quantity. Its what your looking for (indeed a good bit more capable than you request range wise) next option a .222 though burning twice the powder its twice as hard to moderate and wont kill one bit better than a hornet at the ranges you mention. BTW boxes of Hornet factory come in 25 not 20 like most so factor that in cost wise. Is this not a placement issue anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 Talking to my RFD about the Eley hic-cup yesterday. Yep, he too can order some SK rounds in a reasonable quantity without paying the Class 5 delivery premium. The reasonable quantity as defined by his supplier is goods to the value of £500. Should keep you going for a week or two! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 (edited) The new savage .17 hornet (centrefire) sounds like an alternative with cheaper but very effective ammo from hornady - 20 grain v-max, 3600ft persecond and matches the .223 for flatness of trajectory for 200yds - I have a .223 and its is a perfect foxing round but too much gun for other vermin. I think the .17 hornet may well turn out the best medium range vermin rifle. Worth googling from Savage. Cheers Kes Edited July 15, 2012 by Kes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyD Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 bornfree on the bigger rifle thread you say "I have a 243 just for fox.its on the approved list for fox" Why not just use that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornfree Posted July 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 bornfree on the bigger rifle thread you say "I have a 243 just for fox.its on the approved list for fox" Why not just use that? i have the WMR with night vision and the 243 for lamping.to much hassle to keep swapping scopes. bornfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornfree Posted July 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 (edited) In fairness ant RFD will get you hornet facory ammo in to order in reasonable quantity. Its what your looking for (indeed a good bit more capable than you request range wise) next option a .222 though burning twice the powder its twice as hard to moderate and wont kill one bit better than a hornet at the ranges you mention. BTW boxes of Hornet factory come in 25 not 20 like most so factor that in cost wise. Is this not a placement issue anyway? it is a placement issue. if i could shoot every fox in exactly the right place the WMR would be fine but when its pouring with rain or windy or misty i want to be able to hit the front end of the fox and drop it.two local RFD's put me off the hornet saying you cannot easily get ammo and there are not many rifles about in 22 hornet. bornfree Edited July 15, 2012 by bornfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapid rich Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 Without wanting to hijack the thread can you give us any more information on the RWS ammunition please? Hi frenchie, the RWS for the 22 mag are a 40 gr hollowpoint. Gave great results in my anschutz when I had it, I will have to get some to try in my hw60 I've read that they're the closest to match ammo you can get for the wmr, certainly are lovely looking rounds. When I first got into wmr (1996 ish) I was paying £6/£7 abox for winchester/cci and federal the RWS were £14 :o The RWS are now £22 :o Atb Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 [quote name='bornfree' timestamp='1342358940' post='1844714' i want to be able to hit the front end of the fox and drop it. bornfree Ah, you shouldn't have said that!. Now you're going to need a dog, some ballistic software or some formulae involving the constant 450436. As you've now also added some additional circumstances and assuming the 100 yards is not going to greatly increase, not to mention the ongoing use of the 550, then the rifle you require has picked itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornfree Posted July 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 Ah, you shouldn't have said that!. Now you're going to need a dog, some ballistic software or some formulae involving the constant 450436. As you've now also added some additional circumstances and assuming the 100 yards is not going to greatly increase, not to mention the ongoing use of the 550, then the rifle you require has picked itself. I've got a cat and a calculator will that do bornfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 I've got a cat and a calculator will that do bornfree Yep, nicely. Enjoy your new Hornet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 Forget the 17 jobs if your gonna shoot in the rain! 222 and up won't like the rain much too! Hornet friend U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 it is a placement issue. if i could shoot every fox in exactly the right place the WMR would be fine but when its pouring with rain or windy or misty i want to be able to hit the front end of the fox and drop it.two local RFD's put me off the hornet saying you cannot easily get ammo and there are not many rifles about in 22 hornet. bornfree there are plenty of new rifles still available in Hornet. getting factory ammo aint difficult round here, getting bullet heads is you have to travel an hour plus. RFD's dont make much on ammo unless they are selling loads it aint realy worthwhile so i can see why some wont want to get them in for you but buying decent quantities so getting them transfered via RFD might be worthwhile? that said if they buy guns from Edgars then they can get you hornady factory at same time, same delivery. get a .222 or .223, the issue with the mag is not power its placement thats hard in wind etc. you gotta be looking at around 5-6" of wind on occasions when its only 10-15mph at said 100yds, alied to the std normal accuraccy of the calibre .............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 You'll find quite a few people are now pushing the Hornet again. It went out of fashion for a while but for what you're doing it would be a lovely round. My CZ loved S&B factory ammo and it was cheap at £8/20. The dealer I bought it from used to order me a couple of hundred at a time and just added them to his bulk order when he made one. Getting ammo in is hard if you want it right now, but if you can work out your usage then they can forward plan and keep a small stock. It really isn't that difficult so if they can't manage it I'd go elsewhere. If you do want a bigger gun then the .223 has always been my advice. All this chat over the .222 being lovely and the .223 not is in my experience false. They're pretty similar rounds. For 100 yard use it's more power than you need - I've got both and given the choice I would always use the Hornet for close range. It's only just recently that the accuracy dropped off of the Hornet and it needed a rebarrel that I bought a cheap .223 to get me by until it's back. Look at the .17 Hornet if you're in no hurry, but it's unlikely to be here before next year. I'm having one made at the moment and my barrel was the first that Walther had supplied for that calibre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 there are plenty of new rifles still available in Hornet. there are a sum total of 2 new hornets and 7 second hand ones in the entire country on guntrader versus 240 odd in .223 that says its pretty much obsolete as a caliber and you will have to have whats available gun wise rather than what you want. The .223 will be spot on for your needs, I keep being told how far you can see with a N550 and if you can see it you will be able to shoot it. Engine room shots fine plenty of energy there and they won't run. Gun wise you have a large choice ammo is stocked in every rfd I've been in and the cost and availability of it means you don't have to reload. The Hornet has an abnormal number of fans on here compared to the real shooting world there are definitely better foxing guns out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 there are a sum total of 2 new hornets and 7 second hand ones in the entire country on guntrader versus 240 odd in .223 that says its pretty much obsolete as a caliber and you will have to have whats available gun wise rather than what you want. The .223 will be spot on for your needs, I keep being told how far you can see with a N550 and if you can see it you will be able to shoot it. Engine room shots fine plenty of energy there and they won't run. Gun wise you have a large choice ammo is stocked in every rfd I've been in and the cost and availability of it means you don't have to reload. The Hornet has an abnormal number of fans on here compared to the real shooting world there are definitely better foxing guns out there. You have not misunderstood what was said about the availability of Hornet rifles. Rather, I think that you've deliberately chosen to misinterpret it. The man already has a 243 so if the WMR is not fit for purpose why not suggest that he stops faffing about and use that instead. If, in your opinion, getting on for 600ft/lbs of energy is not sufficient to cleanly kill a fox at 100 yards, pray tell what you would use at 300 yards because your beloved 223 by your own assessment won't either at that distance. What is it that prevents you from accepting that, inspite of the fact that all Hornet users on here recognise that the performance of the calibre is limited, it does a job and does it very well albeit within its limitations? I understand that you may have some difficulty assessing the performance of the calibre, never actually having owned one. Having said that, I feel that you're really having a bit of a wind up. The only problem there is that if some see that you don't appear able to accept the opinion of others with some experience of a given topic against your total lack, why should they pay any attention to yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 there are a sum total of 2 new hornets and 7 second hand ones in the entire country on guntrader versus 240 odd in .223 that says its pretty much obsolete as a caliber and you will have to have whats available gun wise rather than what you want. The .223 will be spot on for your needs, I keep being told how far you can see with a N550 and if you can see it you will be able to shoot it. Engine room shots fine plenty of energy there and they won't run. Gun wise you have a large choice ammo is stocked in every rfd I've been in and the cost and availability of it means you don't have to reload. The Hornet has an abnormal number of fans on here compared to the real shooting world there are definitely better foxing guns out there. Guntrader is not indicative of the stock at Edgars and Viking arms. if i was buying stock guns i think i should buy .223 and .243, but that dont mean there aint no hornets in the country. Have you ever noticed that the members of the "Hornet club" on here are generally not all on thier first rifles and have been around the block a few times. I should serious like to know how you class better foxing guns? I dont think my .243 foxing gun is better than my Hornet, just they have different uses. The .243 would not be my first choice 100yds NV foxer out of the two and neither would the Hornet be my choice for serious open fell work on a windy night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 so why do no RFD's hold stock of hornets its because demand is so low, the same applies to ammo. The .223 everyone seems to have on the shelf and they stock the ammo as well. If the reports are to be believed the N550 will do a lot more than 100 yards so why restrict yourself, I shoot a lot under 100 yards with NV and funnily enough none have been an issue with the .243 it just means I don't have to restrict shots. The .223 is one of the most popular fox calibers for a good reason and unless you want to shoot rabbits as well is a far better choice simply due to being able to walk into any shop and pick up ammo. You can't argue with the energy they put out being considerably more or the trajectory being far better. Its just another viewpoint for the guy who started off on the right track and started being pushed down the route of a nearly obsolete caliber. We all have opinions personally if you want a foxing gun then buy one a hornet isn't a dedicated fox gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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