JonathanL Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Not quite. There are two other powers which allow seizure - evidence of a crime and Breach of Peace. If it has got to the point of being asked for your guns it is probably best not to argue it right there as producing your cert has nothing to do with the other two powers. Yes, this is true and there are probably lots more reasons why a cop can take your guns, to be quite honest. The point of the matter is though that there must always be a power in law which allows the police to take your guns - or anything for that matter. They can't just sieze something because tney feel like it. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDown Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 I would guess the sensible thing to do it to take a photocopy of the cert, or perhaps some other form of Photo ID. Even just a copy of a passport or driving licence would be better than nothing. Ideal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDown Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Yes, this is true and there are probably lots more reasons why a cop can take your guns, to be quite honest. The point of the matter is though that there must always be a power in law which allows the police to take your guns - or anything for that matter. They can't just sieze something because tney feel like it. J. I wholeheartedly agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Chisum Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 My friend had a row with his EX girl friend who called the police out of malice stating by word of mouth only, never in a written statement, that he had threatened to shoot her with his shotgun, he claims he said no such thing, I believed him, I know him well. It took months and about £3000 in legal fees to eventually get his gun back even though she admitted she lied, she did not face any charges. The same thing has happened again, she called the police after a row, she is still his EX. 3 officers arrived and demanded to be admitted, one was a firearms officer who told my mate to surrender his shotgun, he told officer it was upstairs locked up, he was told to fetch it, he did, UNSUPERVISED, how irresponsible, he may have turned nasty, idiots. They kept him at the police station most of the day and eventually released him, without his shotgun and certificate. It took 2 weeks of talking to different ********* at the police station to get his property back. She again got off Scott free. Never right IMO. If he had been a BASC member would they have helped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDown Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 May have helped for the initial bit and kept those costs down. BASC can't really be a lot of use in recovery of the guns though. Two weeks sounds pretty quick as it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedge Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) Despite the letter of the law and subsequent discussion of what is/isn't `allowed`, several things are clear and this applies in anything associated with laws, rules & regulations (LRR). The 6 rules of LRR. 1. Some people know the LRR. 2. Some people know some of the LRR. 3. Some people interpret the LRR differently 4. Some people think they know the LRR. 5. Some people know b8gger all 6. Some people are d!ckheads Based on that logic - the best thing you can do is reduce the chances of 1-6 ruining your day. 1. Always carry your orginal certficate with you when transporting or using your guns. 2. Carry written permission/contact details etc. Remove the excuses for someone to challenge you and/or potentially remove your guns. Whether you are right or wrong, you run the risk of losing your guns and it's not much fun argueing the point of law down at the Plod Shop (as well as other problems already mentioned). Most coppers won't know the law that well and the bottom line is that if you don't carry your certificate and written permission you are increasing the chances of an unpleasant encounter. Personally, I would expect a copper to have to be reasonably satisifed that you have permission even if you have your SGC etc so why not make it cast iron and have it in writing. For me, as it involves gun I would expect the burden to be on me to prove I had permission not for them to prove that I don't. We live in very sensitive times with regards to gun ownership so why not reduce the risk of unecessary encounters by being squeaky clean and whiter than white? Courts are the place to argue the letter of the law and I don't want to be doing in in the middle of a corn field. Edited August 2, 2012 by hedge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDown Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Lot of sense in that hedge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 My friend had a row with his EX girl friend who called the police out of malice stating by word of mouth only, never in a written statement, that he had threatened to shoot her with his shotgun, he claims he said no such thing, I believed him, I know him well. It took months and about £3000 in legal fees to eventually get his gun back even though she admitted she lied, she did not face any charges. The same thing has happened again, she called the police after a row, she is still his EX. 3 officers arrived and demanded to be admitted, one was a firearms officer who told my mate to surrender his shotgun, he told officer it was upstairs locked up, he was told to fetch it, he did, UNSUPERVISED, how irresponsible, he may have turned nasty, idiots. They kept him at the police station most of the day and eventually released him, without his shotgun and certificate. It took 2 weeks of talking to different ********* at the police station to get his property back. She again got off Scott free. Never right IMO. If he had been a BASC member would they have helped? He shoudl have sued the cow for the costs he incurred due to her lies. It's shocking that she wasn't prosecuted. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 What if your fac is in for veriation ? It's still valid so I can still shoot but it's in sheffield so I carnt produce it lol Your licensing authority can issue you with a permit in the interim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulpinehunter Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 I have to phone in when i go out. Still got stopped seven times on the trot even when I phoned. All they wanted to know was whos car is it and whos quad is it......great got the quad stolen last month and guess what there were NO police anyware to stop the person who stole it. To busy stopping legaly owned vehicles and doing old ladies for 1mph over speed limit. Am I phoning again yuo bet I am NOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke.R Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 so given we all have to be competent with a firearm to get a ticket for our guns what qualifies the average plod to seize them surely they should have to be a firearms officer? i mean hypothetically couldn't they end up shooting themselves through lack of knowledge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robl Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 I would suspect that the average member of Her Majesties police force knows enough about guns to avoid shooting themselves. Even if it’s just from common sense, watching TV and reading books. Also, if the situation is such that the officer feels the need to seize the guns aggressively then chances are they consider it worth the risk. If it’s a ‘polite’ seizure then they may give the gun owner the opportunity to make the gun safe and put it in a bag until the situation is resolved. Of course, this is all guesswork and conjecture. I don’t think we’re actually heard any stories of someone who’s had their gun seized in the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin128 Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Always have my certs and written permissions with me and images backed up on computer. Out last week 15 miles from home and remembered I hadn't got them with me...turned around and went back home to collect. Police have right to seize your weapons...ooops, guns, even if you have certs etc. You can check his/her authenticity by asking for warrant card and ringing Police yourself to check. http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/173038-safe-shooting/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 so given we all have to be competent with a firearm to get a ticket for our guns what qualifies the average plod to seize them surely they should have to be a firearms officer? i mean hypothetically couldn't they end up shooting themselves through lack of knowledge? What qualifies the average bobby ?......................common sense perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 that and one would assume you only gave them an unloaded firearm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Same as seizing anything illegal drugs, counterfeits etc they are agents of the crown, firearms officers are trained to use their guns not yours I would expect them to have some idea but not know the ins and outs of every make model and action..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robl Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 It’s not like guns are particularly complicated. A few years back I went to a gun shop in Colorado to play with some hand guns. At the counter as I paid my money to get my hire pistol I mentioned that I had never fired a handgun and I wasn’t sure if I needed any instruction. The reply was “You’re watched TV right, you’ll be fine. Just don’t point it at anyone.” She was right. I was fine. I’m sure that anyone with enough brains to pass the police exams can work out how to make a rifle safe enough for transport or storage until a firearms team arrives. If there is something complicated I’m sure most gun owners would explain the problem – unless they have given reason to be already cuffed in the back of the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDown Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 so given we all have to be competent with a firearm to get a ticket for our guns what qualifies the average plod to seize them surely they should have to be a firearms officer? i mean hypothetically couldn't they end up shooting themselves through lack of knowledge? When did this competency test come in then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 I don’t think we’re actually heard any stories of someone who’s had their gun seized in the field. I thought there had been several;including one highly publicised one in the shooting press? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke.R Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 When did this competency test come in then? lota guys down our way(and i assume the rest of the uk? ) have to of had x amount of experience useing a firearm and or be mentored for however long before there allowed to shoot by themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) so given we all have to be competent with a firearm to get a ticket for our guns what qualifies the average plod to seize them surely they should have to be a firearms officer? i mean hypothetically couldn't they end up shooting themselves through lack of knowledge? We don't all have to be competent to get a certificate. Sometimes we need to be mentored for a rifle, but many people get them without having even touched one. Shotguns do not require anything to check your safe/teach you about them. Yes a police officer could have an accident while seizing guns/ammo, which is probably why they'd want to call out their firearms department as they are their 'specialist' team for it, but, legally, a police officer can do it. And, just because someone is a firearms officer does not mean they are actually safe with guns, or that they know anything about them. Edited August 7, 2012 by bedwards1966 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke.R Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 thats a fair point,i worded my post badly apologies for that,it was aimed more at the fac side of things,but youve sumed up/answed what i ment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robl Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 I thought there had been several;[stories of someone who’s had their gun seized in the field. ] including one highly publicised one in the shooting press? I don’t suppose anyone has a link to the do they? It makes sense for me to educate myself. The only stories I have read are of people carrying their guns in a way that’s perhaps asking for trouble. Such as walking along roads with closed or non-slipped guns. (I personally think that one should be able to walk along a road with a broken shotgun or a carried rifle, but the law says not. So my argument would be with the lawmakers, not the police who are enforcing the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 I personally think that one should be able to walk along a road with a broken shotgun or a carried rifle, but the law says not. So my argument would be with the lawmakers, not the police who are enforcing the law. Where exactly, in law, does it say one can't. There is no law that says a shotgun or rifle has to be cased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDown Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Beat me to it CharlieT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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