illegal as standard

[station]

Hi every one i've just bought a chrono and tested my gun and it's average power output is 12.80 well above the legal limit now I've had my hw100 for 2yrs now and have always used the same pellets and on many occasations I've been out with my rifle and could ov been stopped and had my rifle taken from me and also lost my shotgun licence aswell as getting a criminal record for a fire arms offence but the thing is a bought this rifle new from a gunsmith which I thought was legal and it's clearly reading different I was just wondering we're I stand and what would happen if I was to get stopped what chance would I ov had cheers darren

 

I know that HW100's are known to creep over the limit with age and use.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Hull would reset back to sub 12 free of charge if the rifle was the later version with the anti tamper set up - worth a phone call.

 

Better being safe than sorry.

ATB.

[Peskyfoxs]

I bought a weirauch 97k years ago from a gunshop, when put in friends chrono it was doing just over 16ft/lb, turned out they have serviced it and been a bit heavy gander with oil and it was dieseling.

 

It settled down to just under 12 ft/lb after about 25 shots but shows how easy it is to go over.

[sixhills 69]

I would think that 80% of people that own an airrifle do not own a chrono and if you purchase a rifle from new why would you test different pellets in my thinking 1st you would have had to have done something illegal for the police to be made aware and become intrested in you. 2nd if they were to find a reason to take you airrifle they would take what you were shooting and test them.

If the gun was purchased from new and has never been tampered with then its a manufactures fault and i can not see CPS spending large amounts of money on a court case. If the gun has been tampered with well then that is another set of playing cards as i would say that if you tamper with any gun to increase preformance you would need to purchase a chrono and if your daft enough to do that then i would expect to loose my gun.

about 13 years ago i purchased a brocock not sure on the modle but the one with the solid brass case that you charged, the gun had been in my loft since september 2000 when i moved into my house it was when i wanted to get back into shooting in 2005 i mentioned to a friend about this said air gun and he informed me it was now an illegal firearm I explained to firearms licencing and they just asked me to take it and have it destroyed that was the end of that "how was i supposed to know" yes they could have gone the other way but would it have been in the publics intrest NO.

[chrisjpainter]

I would think that 80% of people that own an airrifle do not own a chrono and if you purchase a rifle from new why would you test different pellets in my thinking 1st you would have had to have done something illegal for the police to be made aware and become intrested in you. 2nd if they were to find a reason to take you airrifle they would take what you were shooting and test them.

If the gun was purchased from new and has never been tampered with then its a manufactures fault and i can not see CPS spending large amounts of money on a court case.

 

I'd not rely on this to be honest. When it comes to fire arms, I'm thinking the police will be of the opinion that it's better to be safe than sorry and if you can't prove that your gun is legal, they'll want to check. As they're so keen to point out, ignorance is no defence! For them, good reason to check might be if you couldn't produce chrono evidence of power, Police forces like to produce results and clamping down on fire arms is a very high profile way to do it. It's in the public's interest, and the law is very clear; sub 12 or it's illegal without a FAC! I'd be inclined to do as others have suggested get it properly serviced first. They will probably check the power as part of that service, so go from there!

[labstaff]

Its worth remembering that unregulated PCP's have a power band, where during the course of the charge the power will start lower, raise and lower again. Therefore you should chrono the gun midway through the charge when the power is at its peak.

[terrier]

we did the test a couple months ago, with the M1 chrony, the Beta master chrony and a "over the barrel " chrono. There was almost 1,5 ftlbs difference between them. And I remember a test long time ago in a German magazine between 3 M1 chrony's and 1 airgun...

[Guest cookoff013]

there is a slight difference between 12.8ftlbs and 30ftlbs.

 

i would be very shocked if someone ended up in court over a 12.8ftlb airgun. if it happened to me i`d go to court over it.not nessasary to waste court time.

 

i`ve been in a gunshop, customer came in, his guns broken, and cant hold its charge for long. the gunsmith then chrono`s the gun, 30ftlbs. a little bsa spitfire producing that. gunsmith "i`ll turn it down."

 

it wouldnt surprise me if anyone caught with a 12-13ftlb gun would just get a warning.

[ballzy1978]

hi cheers for the intresting comments and like i said my two friends have just bought new rifles from a magazine and they have the certificates which have their average power output on and when fired through my chrono its more or less the same so i think my chrono is ok i'll try it on a diffrent chrono to c what thats reading but i dont want to lose my sgc for a slightly over powered rifle cheers again

[Robl]

it wouldnt surprise me if anyone caught with a 12-13ftlb gun would just get a warning.

 

I’d agree with you there.

Probably an off-the-books warning too.

 

That said, it may depend on the reason the police decided to confiscate and test your gun in the first place.

If you’re being investigated for dealing drugs and they find a 13ftlb gun in the house they will probably add it on the list of things to throw at you.

 

If the police just had it tested as part of a routine thing because a local do-gooder complained about someone shooting a powerful gun then it would probably be a warning.

Followed by the option of having a local gunshop sort it out at a reasonable price, or getting it destroyed by the police.

[secretagentmole]

Its worth remembering that unregulated PCP's have a power band, where during the course of the charge the power will start lower, raise and lower again. Therefore you should chrono the gun midway through the charge when the power is at its peak.

 

Erm, slight problem, the HW100 IS regulated. What has happened is the grease on one of the springs on the valve has thickened, the valve stays open longer, more air goes behind the pellet, the pellet goes faster! Hence increase in fpe. I have already advised the OP on another thread to get it serviced, preferably by someone who knows what they are doing with HW100 rifles, secondly why has the OP not invested £50 in a chrono? Really, a gun that would have cost well over £600 when new, and he has not bothered to buy a chrono that costs less than a cheap scope. Buy a Combro, use it properly, keep yourself the right side of the law!

Edited August 29, 2012 by secretagentmole

[secretagentmole]

I’d agree with you there.

Probably an off-the-books warning too.

 

That said, it may depend on the reason the police decided to confiscate and test your gun in the first place.

If you’re being investigated for dealing drugs and they find a 13ftlb gun in the house they will probably add it on the list of things to throw at you.

 

If the police just had it tested as part of a routine thing because a local do-gooder complained about someone shooting a powerful gun then it would probably be a warning.

Followed by the option of having a local gunshop sort it out at a reasonable price, or getting it destroyed by the police.

 

Balls, ****, ********, rubbish!

A friend of mine on THL had his house raided by the police, whilst he was in hospital with depression. They took his entire gun collection, including the cheap plastic bb guns his kids used, they found one gun was slightly over and impounded it, giving him a criminal record so he can no longer work in the security industry!

 

Another friend of mine on there agreed to meet someone at a services half way between his house and the buyers house, to sell an air rifle. The gun never left the bag. someone saw them and called the police. When he got home the police arrived an hour later, took all his guns, tested them, seized one that was 0.8 foot pound energy over the 12....

[Robl]

In both stories, do you happen to know if the guns in question had been adjusted by the owners?

 

I think there’s quite a difference between an enthusiastic amateur finding their out-of-the-box gun is over the limit compared to a heavily modded gun being over the limit when it’s fitted with a bunch of aftermarket parts and all the safety/security screws have been drilled or removed.

[Billy.]

*shakes head*

 

 

Margin... of... Error....

[lumpy]

You'll hear allsorts of claptrap on here from dont worry to the police are morons who have no idea what thier doing, the fact of the matter is if you dont hold the relevent license then yes it IS an ILLEGAL offence, for your own piece of mind have the gun reset to below 12lbs. problem solved !!

[andy draper]

mr mole is correct,it is up to you as the owner of the gun to ensure it is below 12 fp it does not matter if it's new or not if it's over you are done.As a rule pcp's give the highest fp off heavy pellets,when i have worked on them i always chrono firstly with bis mags set the power to 11,5 fp and then chrono with a mix of medium to light pellets.Why do people have a fixation with the 12 fp the rifle is capable of doing it's job from 10.5 upwards.The police will check the gun with dirrerent pellets it does not matter if your pellet of choice is firing at 11.7 if their pellets go over 12 it's illegal.All airgunners should either own or have access to a chrono and check their gun regularly,people rabbit on about safety when using their gun then find out they are illegal anyway,ignorance is not an excuse in the eyes of the law and if a person is stupid enough to have a £600 + gun destroyed by the police and a record because they didn't chrono it more fool them.

[secretagentmole]

In both stories, do you happen to know if the guns in question had been adjusted by the owners?

 

I think there’s quite a difference between an enthusiastic amateur finding their out-of-the-box gun is over the limit compared to a heavily modded gun being over the limit when it’s fitted with a bunch of aftermarket parts and all the safety/security screws have been drilled or removed.

 

Both guns were in standard form, the first one was an Ultra which still had the anti tamper in place!

 

The second was an HW80 which the second user swapped I believe, so remember, check with a chrono!

[Billy.]

You'll hear allsorts of claptrap on here from dont worry to the police are morons who have no idea what thier doing, the fact of the matter is if you dont hold the relevent license then yes it IS an ILLEGAL offence, for your own piece of mind have the gun reset to below 12lbs. problem solved !!

 

Ok, so I got a pellet and under a microscope made the edges as flat and bump free as possible, ensuring it was perfectly balanced and with minimal barrel friction and put it in a gun which shot an average pellet at 11ft/lbs. I've made a 'super pellet'

 

This super pellet I made can theoretically make a chronograph show 20+ft/lbs. Does this mean I now own a S1 firearm, even though the rifle exerted the same amount of energy on my usual pellet and the super pellet?

 

You're measuring the wrong thing guys.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Billy.

[simon6ppc]

does any one know of any body getting done for this by the way...

[secretagentmole]

Yes, at least 2 users on THL!

Ok, so I got a pellet and under a microscope made the edges as flat and bump free as possible, ensuring it was perfectly balanced and with minimal barrel friction and put it in a gun which shot an average pellet at 11ft/lbs. I've made a 'super pellet'

 

This super pellet I made can theoretically make a chronograph show 20+ft/lbs. Does this mean I now own a S1 firearm, even though the rifle exerted the same amount of energy on my usual pellet and the super pellet?

 

You're measuring the wrong thing guys.

 

yes, if the measured enery reads over 12 foot pounds, with no matter what pellet the lab uses, you get done, end of. We have had this discussion on here before. What you have to remember is that the law is so loosely written they could with very little effort find most if not all of us guilty. Why?

 

The gun has to have the potential to produce more energy than 12 foot pounds.

 

That is a quote from the very act! So if they take your gun in, tinker, use a pellet, voila it has demonstrated the potential to go over 12 foot pounds, You in court, nasty man, up to 5 years in jail.

 

Please remember there is no standard procedure for testing, no standard equipment specified nor standard ammunition specified, they can and do test with any and all pellets and may also tamper to get a prosecution. It has allegedly happened before and until we can get a standardised test procedure, equipment and ammunition it will happen again. You have to use an approved machine to get an evidential breathalyser test, one that is calibrated to a known standard.

 

No such luck in firearms testing!

Edited August 28, 2012 by secretagentmole

[HDAV]

The gun has to have the potential to produce more energy than 12 foot pounds.

 

hmmmmm dieseling will cause any to do this...........but as there is no standard for testing it should be easy enough to bring an expert in to discredit the test results. Perhaps this is why the prefer to issue a caution and confiscate the gun as they know they would be unlikely to win a court case?

[-Mongrel-]

Ok, so I got a pellet and under a microscope made the edges as flat and bump free as possible, ensuring it was perfectly balanced and with minimal barrel friction and put it in a gun which shot an average pellet at 11ft/lbs. I've made a 'super pellet'

 

This super pellet I made can theoretically make a chronograph show 20+ft/lbs. Does this mean I now own a S1 firearm, even though the rifle exerted the same amount of energy on my usual pellet and the super pellet? Yes

 

You're measuring the wrong thing guys.

 

You're wrong, but just out of interest, what should we be measuring?

 

The measure is of muzzle energy, and that legally is not allowed to be over 12ft/lb, that's the law. If they (the police) chrono your gun with your super pellet at 20ft/lb then they can do you for it, simpla as that.

[parapilot]

Why have BASC never challenged or pushed for this? There must be huundreds of thousands, if not millions of airgun users in uk. Should be top of the hit list.

 

I did ask them about testing but they didn't really know, no one does.

 

Have they ever represented an airgun user in court???

 

As my last post surly any good lawer would rip the police and test results to shreads, to a point it would be embarrassing for them. If would never work for drink driving, or speeding. So why do we sit back and take it for airguns - must be cos everyone's scared of guns, and we are all nasty people for owning one.

 

 

[secretagentmole]

hmmmmm dieseling will cause any to do this...........but as there is no standard for testing it should be easy enough to bring an expert in to discredit the test results. Perhaps this is why the prefer to issue a caution and confiscate the gun as they know they would be unlikely to win a court case?

 

No, because they have the weapon, which becomes a prohibited firearm and they will not release it for testing, no way! You do not know what their test procedure is either, is could involve 2 yards of knicker elastic and a used copy of playboy, all they have to do is stand up in court and say that according to their testing the rifle is over 12 foot pounds, Hell you do not even know if they calibrated the kicker elastic!

 

They confiscate the gun to get a test and they can and will bring it before the courts, especially if the arrest and results figures are a bit low....

Edited August 28, 2012 by secretagentmole

[ballzy1978]

In both stories, do you happen to know if the guns in question had been adjusted by the owners?

 

I think there’s quite a difference between an enthusiastic amateur finding their out-of-the-box gun is over the limit compared to a heavily modded gun being over the limit when it’s fitted with a bunch of aftermarket parts and all the safety/security screws have been drilled or removed.

my guns standard mate nothing has been touched or tampered with

[FalconFN]

Balls, ****, ********, rubbish!

A friend of mine on THL had his house raided by the police, whilst he was in hospital with depression. They took his entire gun collection, including the cheap plastic bb guns his kids used, they found one gun was slightly over and impounded it, giving him a criminal record so he can no longer work in the security industry!

 

Another friend of mine on there agreed to meet someone at a services half way between his house and the buyers house, to sell an air rifle. The gun never left the bag. someone saw them and called the police. When he got home the police arrived an hour later, took all his guns, tested them, seized one that was 0.8 foot pound energy over the 12....

 

Firstly, the fact that the first 'friend' had his house raided dose raise the possibility that he wasn't entirely legit' - I'm sure depression isn't normally followed by coppers breaking down your door.

 

Secondly the fuzz only seized the rifle that was over, you don't say whether he spent the next 5 years with a very strong grip on the soap, so I assume no further action was taken.

 

I am of the opinion that anything more than a slap on the wrist and a confiscated weapon is very unlikely for otherwise law abiding shooters. All these 5 years in the clink stories seem a little bit like urban myths to me, although you still don't want to find yourself in that position in th first place.