new shoot oppertunity

[rapid12]

hi,

 

i have recently moved in to a cottage on the land i pest control on, there is 600 acres of prime land in a valley type layout so to speak.There has been a shooting syndicate on the land for the last couple of decades but last season the land owner had a fall out with the gamekeeper and finished all shoots from then, he said he will not allow anyone else to take the shooting but i can have it free off charge if i wish

 

all the pens and feeders are all still where they where left, auto fill water tubs,feeders, electric fence,pens you name it.

 

the pens are only 50yards in front of my cottage so very easy to watch and feed up when needed, all corn and wheat i get for free too.

 

i know the last shoot ran 11 shoot days with 2 vermin days and 1 beaters day, there where 10 guns per day.

 

i am seriously thinking about running this next season and know there will be plenty of shooters around wanting a place in the syndicate, i am new to shooting game as i am mainly a pigeon shooter and pest,

 

i have no idea what and how to charge the guns if i set this up, i would like to make some money from this if i where to invest my time in this and it would be a waste if i dont run this.

 

any info and advice will be greatly accepted

 

cheers 12

[unclestuffy]

Where abouts is this shoot (roughly)?

[rapid12]

Where abouts is this shoot (roughly)?

 

not too far from a place called scrooby, near bawtry.

[JustJon]

What about one of the BASC courses on game keeping between now and next year?

 

Minimise the stress, buy them in as poults? Possibly look for someone to share the load with - find someone with the knowledge that's done it before so that you have the skill set behind you to make a good success?

[leeds chimp]

Shame you are a distance as I would have jumped at the chance to give you a hand and advise (with my limited knowledge so far) on it all

 

Its not as easy as you think though and you do need to put some serious graft and time into running it....

[tiny tim]

leeds chimp is right its not as easy as it seems and takes up all your spare time.we share the load between 5 of us and it is still a lot of hard work ..i really enjoy it but there is a lot of hard graft that needs doing..the guns have no idea how much time and effort it takes to manage a small syndicate....why not just release a few for your own rough shooting ?

[magman]

Unless you have PLENTY of spare time on your hands then i would give it a miss being a one man band

Sometime's keepers struggle doing a 16+ hour day with under keepers

[leeds chimp]

leeds chimp is right its not as easy as it seems and takes up all your spare time.we share the load between 5 of us and it is still a lot of hard work ..i really enjoy it but there is a lot of hard graft that needs doing..the guns have no idea how much time and effort it takes to manage a small syndicate....why not just release a few for your own rough shooting ?

 

I know 3 keepers...from a DIY sydi to a full estate run commercial....worked with all 3 on my days off from work as I enjoy it...

you can easy do 12+ hours when you get your poults in from feeding 3 times a day to vermin control to checking the pens 2/3 times a day....

Even when no poults/birds still have to do vermin control and keep an eye on the pens repairs ...

its not a case of getting a few beater and push them over the guns....

Then you have disease ...no offence but do you know the signs for

Hexamita

 

Coccidiosis

 

etc???

Not trying to put you off but dont want someone to fall on their **** ...

[hillmouse]

The acreage is on the small side but if the habitat was right it may be viable.

I would try and find out what scale the previous shoot ran at, numbers released, returns and number of days shot etc.

 

One good tip is that if you want to make a million pounds out of running a shoot, start with 2 million.

[rapid12]

cheers for all your replys, if i go ahead with this i already have, me and 2 others willing to share the costs 3 ways and one more friend who already helps run a nearby shoot.

 

i will carry on doing my home work and see what happens.

 

thanks again.

[gamekeeper1960]

The acreage is on the small side but if the habitat was right it may be viable.

I would try and find out what scale the previous shoot ran at, numbers released, returns and number of days shot etc.

 

One good tip is that if you want to make a million pounds out of running a shoot, start with 2 million.

 

I'm with you on that one hillmouse !

[Gamefarm]

Only reliable way to make money from a shoot is to own the land, rent the shooting rights to some poor sap with more money than sense, draw the rent money each year and have no other involvement!!

If anyone read the article in Shooting Gazette a couple of issues back, there were some pretty good costings in there, showing that the true cost of driven birds should be somwhere near £60/bird. Personally, I tend to think even that is a little low!

[Pheasant Feeder]

In reality, 600 acres is a good size small family shoot. It is a great oppertunity to run a cracking DIY syndicate but I doubt you will be able to make any money.

I used to be on a DIY shoot on about 800 acres we used to have about 10 days shooting a year. The bag varied from 100 birds the first day but soon dropped off towards the end of the season into single figures in January. The following year we limited it to 50 bird days and had more days of around high 40's to high teens in Jan.

 

At best it would be realistic to have a DIY syndicate, shooting around 10 days with a modest bag and you do the work getting a gun in the shoot in return.

As for the financial side depends on how many birds you think you could hold on the land. Depends on the type of land the amount of wood and cover available.

Measure the perimeter of the pen and a rough guess would be a meter of fence per bird would be how many the pen would accomodate.

 

Despite that there probably isn't money to be made I think many on here - my self included would jump at the chance you've got.

[CharlieT]

Only reliable way to make money from a shoot is to own the land, rent the shooting rights to some poor sap with more money than sense, draw the rent money each year and have no other involvement!!

If anyone read the article in Shooting Gazette a couple of issues back, there were some pretty good costings in there, showing that the true cost of driven birds should be somwhere near £60/bird. Personally, I tend to think even that is a little low!

 

This is probably the article which is worth a read. Although you can dismiss many of the standing costs and some of the feed costs, you will still require pellets at say £800+ per 1000 birds, medication, vet, vehicle costs, repairs and some renewals. Not forgetting cover crops and last but not least your poults.

 

On a commercial basis 10 standing guns is a bit on the high side, 8 may be better. However going with your 10 guns shooting say 6 drives, how many birds do you want them to shoot each per drive. Lets say 3, that's 30 birds per drive multiplied by 6 drives = 180 birds per day x 12 days shooting = 2160 birds shot per season. Now lets say you get a 50% return, if your lucky, on birds released therefore you will need to put down something in the region of 5000 poults, in fact to be able to put on a good show at the end of the season and keep your clients coming back next year you should put down say an extra 500 poults.

 

So, I will leave you to work out the costings for yourself but remember if disease or bad weather strikes you can loose your birds and have to replace them so add a figure for such a contingency into your costings.

[jef]

Who actually owns all the equipment that's already out there? And will they come looking for it one day?

 

We took over a shoot a few years ago and through bitterness the previous shooting tennant came and removed an old pen. Not a single trace was left but the pen was so old not one thing would have been salvageable.

 

At the end of the day, someone has invested a lot of time and money buiding/providing the previous setup.

 

Good luck

 

JF

 

by the way, I don't know anyone with a DIY shoot that doesn't cost a small fortune.

[davecooper1]

This is probably the article which is worth a read. Although you can dismiss many of the standing costs and some of the feed costs, you will still require pellets at say £800+ per 1000 birds, medication, vet, vehicle costs, repairs and some renewals. Not forgetting cover crops and last but not least your poults.

 

On a commercial basis 10 standing guns is a bit on the high side, 8 may be better. However going with your 10 guns shooting say 6 drives, how many birds do you want them to shoot each per drive. Lets say 3, that's 30 birds per drive multiplied by 6 drives = 180 birds per day x 12 days shooting = 2160 birds shot per season. Now lets say you get a 50% return, if your lucky, on birds released therefore you will need to put down something in the region of 5000 poults, in fact to be able to put on a good show at the end of the season and keep your clients coming back next year you should put down say an extra 500 poults.

 

So, I will leave you to work out the costings for yourself but remember if disease or bad weather strikes you can loose your birds and have to replace them so add a figure for such a contingency into your costings.

 

Your spot on with your reply mate

[rapid12]

_{Thanks everyone for your wisdom and helpful replys, i already new there where lots of hard work involved and money as i know 1 full time gamekeeper and a friend who helps run another one. i didnt realize or take in account the losses when releasing the birds nor did i do the maths per gun per birds}

_{after your replys and a little homework of my own i think i will leave the idea in the shed. to start with it seemed all too easy to set up as everything is already here. as i said in my op im passinonate about pigeon shooting not game, think i will use the pens for breeding chickens and turkeys for xmas .}

 

_{i am quite lucky really as theres one of the largest shoots in s.yorks which borders my land so i get alot of birds taking refuge on my land which i may take a few on walked up.}

 

_{thanks again everyone. 12.}

[Fisheruk]

leeds chimp is right its not as easy as it seems and takes up all your spare time.we share the load between 5 of us and it is still a lot of hard work ..i really enjoy it but there is a lot of hard graft that needs doing..the guns have no idea how much time and effort it takes to manage a small syndicate....why not just release a few for your own rough shooting ?

+1 just enjoy the opportunity to shoot the land

[Pheasant Feeder]

_{Thanks everyone for your wisdom and helpful replys, i already new there where lots of hard work involved and money as i know 1 full time gamekeeper and a friend who helps run another one. i didnt realize or take in account the losses when releasing the birds nor did i do the maths per gun per birds}

_{after your replys and a little homework of my own i think i will leave the idea in the shed. to start with it seemed all too easy to set up as everything is already here. as i said in my op im passinonate about pigeon shooting not game, think i will use the pens for breeding chickens and turkeys for xmas .}

 

_{i am quite lucky really as theres one of the largest shoots in s.yorks which borders my land so i get alot of birds taking refuge on my land which i may take a few on walked up.}

 

_{thanks again everyone. 12.}

 

Don't dismiss the idea outright, just don't expect to make money, there's nothing to stop you putting a hundred poults down and a few feeders.

If you've a half a dozen mates who don't mind putting a couple of hundred quid in a pot you and half a dozen mates could have a decent bit of sport with modest bags.

The whole process of running a small shoot is worth doing purely for your own enjoyment.

It gives you focus on the fox control.

 

Have a look at 'Running your own shoot' by David Hudson published by Swan Hill press and 'Gamekeeping' by J C Jeremy Hobson. These will give you a better insight into what its involved.

[rapid12]

Don't dismiss the idea outright, just don't expect to make money, there's nothing to stop you putting a hundred poults down and a few feeders.

If you've a half a dozen mates who don't mind putting a couple of hundred quid in a pot you and half a dozen mates could have a decent bit of sport with modest bags.

The whole process of running a small shoot is worth doing purely for your own enjoyment.

It gives you focus on the fox control.

 

Have a look at 'Running your own shoot' by David Hudson published by Swan Hill press and 'Gamekeeping' by J C Jeremy Hobson. These will give you a better insight into what its involved.

 

will do.

[CharlieT]

I will echo Pheasant Feeders advice.

 

You will get loads of satisfaction from putting a few poults down, not forgetting how much you will learn from it.

If put 100 poults down in your first year I bet you put 200 down the following year. Rearing birds can become a hobby in itself with the added bonus of providing a little extra sport.

 

Go on, give it a go !

[jef]

Even if you release only 50, it will give you a little rough sport and no one can comment on you shooting next door's birds either ;-)

 

JF

[2244tone]

I agree if you want to put a few down to see how you get on manageing them good for you i personally haveing not much time,wouldn,t bother buy 2 or 3 tonne of wheat straw up some rides let the estates round you have a few shoots,keep your patch quiet then have 5 or 6 walk round days, say from the middle of december to the end.Who cares if anybody else gets the hump! you will have a great bit of sport lucky sod.Hope it goes good for you pal wish i could get something like that round here.

[CharlieT]

With an altitude like that think yourself lucky you don't Shoot next door to me.

[al4x]

We are going it on a new syndicate this year and have put down 200 pheasants and 100 partridges to start slowly with the aim of 4 days. On a low key informal friendly shoot so not too worried about returns as the financial input is small. The pen was there so we just had to repair and sort feeders etc. so far it's been simple birds have been in since mid July and no traumas so far. We will see how returns go but the outgoing syndicate had a very good return last year. It is helped by a neighbour who puts down bucket loads but that's the way it goes.