Marine1980 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 I don't think the shooting him is the issue, I think the issue is that they didn't then attend to his wounds. The only thing I would say and obviously we don't know the full story but if I personally were half way through a patrol and I had the choice of either using my limited amount of med kit on a guy that has just shot at me or save it for the rest of the patrol just in case me or a colleague or even innocent civilians needed it then guess what!! The outcome would be exactly the same. That's one less to shoot at me the next time I step out on patrol! Royal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprackles Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 I don't think the shooting him is the issue, I think the issue is that they didn't then attend to his wounds. The only thing I would say and obviously we don't know the full story but if I personally were half way through a patrol and I had the choice of either using my limited amount of med kit on a guy that has just shot at me or save it for the rest of the patrol just in case me or a colleague or even innocent civilians needed it then guess what!! The outcome would be exactly the same. That's one less to shoot at me the next time I step out on patrol! Royal Well said......also since they believe they will end up in heaven with 69 virgins or whatever....surely it would be more of a crime to stand in the way of their beliefs and stop that happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonT Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) I don't think the shooting him is the issue, I think the issue is that they didn't then attend to his wounds. The only thing I would say and obviously we don't know the full story but if I personally were half way through a patrol and I had the choice of either using my limited amount of med kit on a guy that has just shot at me or save it for the rest of the patrol just in case me or a colleague or even innocent civilians needed it then guess what!! The outcome would be exactly the same. That's one less to shoot at me the next time I step out on patrol! Royal Couldn't agree more Edited October 15, 2012 by SimonT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 he was in their compound so that argument sort of goes out of the window..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonT Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 I think when they mention compound this is an afghan compound as they were on patrol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprackles Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Its OK for medics in this country to apply the Liverpool Care Pathway by with-holding treatment to end a life....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 of an elderly person on a one way passage there is a huge difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marine1980 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 he was in their compound so that argument sort of goes out of the window..... Oh yes, I keep forgetting that there is a full NHS hospital in all compounds whilst in afghan and Iraq full of equipment! Have a word with yourself, we never use to get re-supplied for weeks when I was out there! Royal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 If they are found guilty of murder will you still defend them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 they will because it seems a lot would have pulled the trigger themselves given half the chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canis Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 I don't think the shooting him is the issue, I think the issue is that they didn't then attend to his wounds. The only thing I would say and obviously we don't know the full story but if I personally were half way through a patrol and I had the choice of either using my limited amount of med kit on a guy that has just shot at me or save it for the rest of the patrol just in case me or a colleague or even innocent civilians needed it then guess what!! The outcome would be exactly the same. That's one less to shoot at me the next time I step out on patrol! Royal Is it possible that they took one look at his woulds figued that he wasn't going to make it and decided that the not only his med kit but also the limmited air -lift rescources would be better sopent on someone we care about.. remember when the medical term triage was invented in WW1 the three groups you where to triage the wounded into where those that could be ecvacuated from the combat area for treatment, those that needed life sustaining treatment before movement and those whose injuries where too severe to save and for whoom it was only a matter of time. While i don't see this as a simple black and white matter i do think its wrong for civilian legal constructs to be applied to someone who is actively participating in active service for his country. our military laws law should not allow our troops to behave like savages but it should not peanalise them for overly for treating an enemy harshly, especially when that enemy is conducting warfare in such an insidious manner .Particularly when you remember our servicemen are largely very young men who find themselves in times like this having to make life or death decisions while the adrenaline is flowing . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Is it possible that they took one look at his woulds figued that he wasn't going to make it and decided that the not only his med kit but also the limmited air -lift rescources would be better sopent on someone we care about.. remember when the medical term triage was invented in WW1 the three groups you where to triage the wounded into where those that could be ecvacuated from the combat area for treatment, those that needed life sustaining treatment before movement and those whose injuries where too severe to save and for whoom it was only a matter of time. While i don't see this as a simple black and white matter i do think its wrong for civilian legal constructs to be applied to someone who is actively participating in active service for his country. our military laws law should not allow our troops to behave like savages but it should not peanalise them for overly for treating an enemy harshly, especially when that enemy is conducting warfare in such an insidious manner .Particularly when you remember our servicemen are largely very young men who find themselves in times like this having to make life or death decisions while the adrenaline is flowing . Given that the charges are being brought by the spa and heard before a court martial it isn't quite civilian legal construct. I suspect there is also more to it than simply leaving him to die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castletyne Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 If they are found guilty of murder will you still defend them? I would as they are not fighting a traditional type of war with a uniformed enemy who is also prepared to honour the same rules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprackles Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 If they are found guilty of murder will you still defend them? 100 percent.....its war there, totally different to our current and comfortable lifestyles. Besides which, I believe this is politically motivated. Sacrificial lambs for the greater good to show the Taliban we are really caring and sharing types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty7247 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Please remember these are the same enemy that shoot a school girl in the face for wanting an education, who used the public football pitch to hang women and have public exercutions. The only people who know the full facts were the boots on the ground. If you was in their place, would you use your medi kit to keep him alive? Knowing full well that you could walk out of the compound and be blown up/shot, and that medi kit you used could save your life?? A bit of perspective needs to be placed. Every soldier deserves correct treatment, Terrorists/Insurgents are not classified as Soldiers. Hiding behind women and children and opening up on patrols isnt warfare, its cowardess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Isn't it only right that there is an investigation? Perhaps it will be found that he died of his wounds and couldn't have been saved. Perhaps it will find that he was helped on his way by a bullet between the eyes. All we seem to know at the moment is that there is video evidence where questions are being asked as to what to do with him and then he dies. Not a lot to go on is it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marine1980 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 I'm guessing and hoping that if they do get charged which is rediculas that all armed forces would go on strike untill they are better defended from the powers above! It's a hard enough job anyway without all this rubbish aswell! Royal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 come on its hardly difficult to abide by the Geneva Convention, you may not want to but that is another matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 The Army on strike lol your really having a laugh now mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Gentlemen, gentlemen, can't we wait until we have the facts - all of the facts. I just hate to see a group of well intentioned people, like the members of PW are, tearing each other apart before knowing all of the circumstances. Patience people. All will be revealed in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Also wanted to add that we do have an obligation under Geneva Convention regardless of wither or not you think they are scum (I personally agree fully with the scum description) that: Articles 13 to 16 state that prisoners of war must be treated humanely without any adverse discrimination and that their medical needs must be met Frankly if it appears that these lads simply could not offer the scumbag the treatment he needed to survive I will have no issue with it and I am sure a court martial will side with the Marines, as has been said their own medical kits may well have been needed by themselves minutes later. However we have no idea at this time if this is all that this story is about, sadly my gut feeling is that there is more to this story than simply not giving him quick medical care. Like it or lump it our forces MUST abide by the Geneva Convention or suffer the consequences! The alternative is to make ourselves as bad as the scumbag insurgents! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 I'm guessing and hoping that if they do get charged which is rediculas that all armed forces would go on strike untill they are better defended from the powers above! It's a hard enough job anyway without all this rubbish aswell! Royal You aren't asking for 'defence from above' you are along for immunity from all prosecution which, as you know, is mad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marine1980 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 You aren't asking for 'defence from above' you are along for immunity from all prosecution which, as you know, is mad. I'm not asking for that at all and if any member of the armed forces killed an innocent civilian and I mean (innocent) then they should get the book thrown at them but these scum bags don't even deserve the extra round to put them out of there misery! They kill innocent women and children on a regular day to day basis and blame it on religion which is complete rubbish! They are criminals and terrorists and should be delt with as such! And if you want to know if I shot any whilst on duty the answer is yes, did I feel any remorse NO! I once ran over an innocent rabbit though and felt guilty as hell! Royal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marine1980 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Guys I'm going to move away from this thread now before it goes beyond military and terrorists etc... As I can see this going in all different directions which I'm sure non of us want to talk about on an open public forum! If any of you want realistic info on what it's actually like to wake up every morning knowing that it's a good chance it's your last due to these scum bags then PM but I'm not arguing my point of view as I'm entitled to it and know that most ex military and serving military are probably under the same impression! Cheers Royal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 I'm not asking for that at all and if any member of the armed forces killed an innocent civilian and I mean (innocent) then they should get the book thrown at them but these scum bags don't even deserve the extra round to put them out of there misery! They kill innocent women and children on a regular day to day basis and blame it on religion which is complete rubbish! They are criminals and terrorists and should be delt with as such! And if you want to know if I shot any whilst on duty the answer is yes, did I feel any remorse NO! I once ran over an innocent rabbit though and felt guilty as hell! Royal I don't care what the insurgents have done. Murder is distinct from enemy engagement and professional soldiers should behave accordingly. If not they should face the consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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