Salopian Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 For those of you who extoll the virtues of steel shot, you may find the following thread very interesting and enlightening. Especially when you take into consideration the Americans experience with steel shot and how they and others here rate it as being wonderful. Possibly it is if only we could be on a level playing field. I was very interested in ordering some Remington steel shells from Edgar Brothers, but may not now do so. Here's the link to the thread read and digest. http://bbs.shootingsportsman.com/showthread.php?2455-Steel-Shot&goto=newpost Read through the thread from start to finish, Larry Brown seems to have concerns for our Euro Guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry P Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Your right it is wonderful, works a treat, my barrel is in perfect order, dispite all the knocks you seem to keep trying to throw at it, steel works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 As long as you don't mind littering the countryside with plastic wads that is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salopian Posted October 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Terry P, As a matter of interest what gun do you use and choke? If you bothered to read Larry Brown's comment you will see that he believes that American commercial loads are unsafe to use in CIP regulated guns effectively forcing us to abandon our usual guns and invest in new guns proved to superior proof. Wiping out British SxS's at a stroke. All very well if you have only one gun but expensive if you have collected a few over a number of years. Yes you are right in saying I do knock steel, because it is not an efficient substitute for the as yet none flawed Lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) there are 2 thoughs here, first, steel shot works, just find the load. speed doesnt have to be fast either, 32g of US#2s at 1400fps will spank a duck. if you shoot alot of shells, buy a steel 1050bar proofed monster and just shoot whatever you can get your hands on. steel shells are cheap and effective to reload. if you intend to use an older gun, then take some special consideration and use a lead compatable nontoxic, like niceshot or tungsten matrix. though that option isnt cheap. also, as with cip recomendations, there are actually british gun manufacturers recomendations they say no more than 1/4 choke. where as CIP suggest maximum 1/2, cip and saami specs are very different, in both pressure and speed, that even includes HP steel. after researching the cip / saami differences, i`ve come to the conclusion cip and saami has its drawbacks. saami for its limited pressure ceiling of 14000psi compared to the 1050 BAR or so CIP HP loads (thats steel and lead) saami has no limit on speed, cip does when steel is used 1400fps. cip has a recoil limit. saami doesnt cip has a steel shotsize limit, for each gauge. both have shot hardness limits for steel shot. i have both, i reload steel, but i`m going to reload soft nontoxics too. the irony is it is actually cheaper to get fined for not using nontoxic, than it is to buy the soft nontoxics.... it is that silly priced.... cook. Edited October 25, 2012 by cookoff013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Another contributor with a form of selective vision that I thought only appled to Gunsmoke. Who is Larry Brown that his opinion, and it is only his opinion, he starts his post with "I think....", is worth quoting. There are ten posts on the thread. Five of them relate to sundry items. Of the remaining five which talk about the effectiveness of steel, they all agree wholeheartedly that it works. Why should the opinion of these contributors carry less weight than that of the mysterious Larry Brown. On reflection Salopian, thanks for bringing this thread to our notice. It confirms what many of us know already - that steel works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 I have little faith in what a couple of people say on any forum, there is enough trash talked on most by persons with little practical knoledge of the subject at hand. Myself and mates from two wildfowling clubs use the stuff and drop plenty of geese and duck with steel. As for contaminating the ground with plastic shot cups has it not occured that lead is not exactly a great thing to spead about in the countryside in areas were it doesnt exist naturally and unlike shotcups that you can collect when seen you cannot do the same with shot which mounts up over the years. Photo plas wads and even fibre non toxic cups exist and will become more common over the next decade. As for Tungsten that has its very own toxic issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Have been debating whether to post this for some time now,as I'll probably get a fair bit of stick about it,but a few months ago I went up to our little rough shoot and realised all I had in my vehicle,ammo wise,were some Buffalo BB's that mate had left,and some Gamebore Super Steel 34grm 4's(think they're 34's?)and the gun I had with me was my Browning 2000 sa choked at 3/4;my general 'knocking about' gun.Not wanting to have to drive home again I thought 'sod it',and bearing in mind from what I've read in some articles about shooting steel through tighter chokes over the water,I thought I'd give 'em a go. On my wander,the dog bolted a rabbit which I cleanly killed at 27 yds(paced out following the shot.... and a quick check to see front bead was still where it should be!)and a bit later another at 15 yds;this one was hit exceptionally hard and much of its fur was spread beyond it,and then a pigeon coming over the tree tops was clattered and instantly turned into ferret food.Now I'm a staunch 'lead' bloke,and will(and do)fight this lead ban proposal tooth and nail,namely as I think the evidence surrounding its claimed 'damage' to the environment and human health is exaggerated and flawed,but I have often sung the praises of the above cartridges on duck,but can now do likewise on other quarry species.These cartridges pattern well and hit hard. I'm not in any way suggesting it is safe to shoot steel through tighter than 1/2 choke,and have no idea what the long term implications for this gun would be if I continued to do so,but am merely relating my own experiences with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 I`m quite sure that we are all united in our desire NOT to see lead taken away and that each of us is doing what they can to ensure that that does not happen. Regretably, the only way that some feel they can defend lead is by attacking the cheapest and most effective alternative. A strategy, the sense of which, none of it`s advocates has yet explained to me satisfactorily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) As for the wad "problem " 99% of theold lead wildfowling cartridges use plaswads " indeed the majority of lead game cartridges used in this country use plaswads. Just look Al4x next time you visit your gun shop. Thats why they are a little cheaper than felt wad shells. Todays plaswads quickly break down in sunlight. I had a look at one of my winter roost wood spots last month where I fired 100s of shells with plas wads last winter and not a single one was to be seen despite the bare woodland floor under beech trees ( was trying to sweep up some beech mast and acorns to feed a duck shooting spot , but its a very poor crop this year ). I use lead for pigeon shooting mainly because its what the farmers give me , but these days when buying my own its mainly steel. The new RIO 34 gr steel load of 3s killed a couple of hares stone dead at 40 yards last week with no trouble. If your gun will not handle steel buy a new one that will , thats what i did and never looked back. Edited October 25, 2012 by anser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 all depends how much you like littering anser had this years game shells delivered last week and they sure aren't plastic. Its fairly irrelevant as really its the only real downside I've found 4's in steel work well on most game but and the big but being the damage they can do can be quite excessive for something you want to eat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) I have never had any more trouble with meat dammage from steel than lead , not do i know anyone else who takes shots at a reasonable range to have the problem. Edited October 25, 2012 by anser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 I`m quite sure that we are all united in our desire NOT to see lead taken away and that each of us is doing what they can to ensure that that does not happen. Regretably, the only way that some feel they can defend lead is by attacking the cheapest and most effective alternative. A strategy, the sense of which, none of it`s advocates has yet explained to me satisfactorily. I can see your point entirely mudpatten,and having debated this at length in the past I don't really want to go down this route again,but I have never rubbished steel,and in fact have actually praised the limited amount of steel shot I have experience with,but the point I was trying to make in those debates was that if lead were to be banned due to its toxicity,then,as far as I know, the same claims could be levied towards steel,which is in fact iron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lister1 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 I'm confused with all this. Now, I have a. Betinsoli diamond o/u, 3inch chamber and says steel shot proofed on the barrels. The guns is only a couple of years old, It's multi choke and I have 1/4 and 1/2 chokes in. What size steel carts can I use? Obviously catridges up to 3 inch bit I mean what size shot etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 I'm confused with all this. Now, I have a. Betinsoli diamond o/u, 3inch chamber and says steel shot proofed on the barrels. The guns is only a couple of years old, It's multi choke and I have 1/4 and 1/2 chokes in. What size steel carts can I use? Obviously catridges up to 3 inch bit I mean what size shot etc. If it says 'steel shot proofed' or shows the Fleur de Lys stamp then you can use any 3" steel load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lister1 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Cheers. That's what I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitloop Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 have a read thrugh this and then tell me that steel is non toxic http://www.ehow.com/info_8439461_harmful-effects-iron-oxides.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 have a read thrugh this and then tell me that steel is non toxic http://www.ehow.com/...ron-oxides.html To be fair I'm not sure an 'eHow' article would be classed as scientifically robust, or suitably researched enough to be of any real use in the grand scale of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salopian Posted October 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Does anyone know of a gun being damaged by the use of steel shot? Or damaged by the continual use of steel shot? Does anyone know of a gun being damaged by shooting steel shot through tighter than half choke? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikk Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 have a read thrugh this and then tell me that steel is non toxic http://www.ehow.com/...ron-oxides.html There's no comparison to the toxicity between steel and lead. Lead is far more toxic. but the point the antis keep trying to make is just silly, the shot is only in the body for a short while before eating unless the bird has eaten it and even then I'm not convinced of the health risks as you would think the shot would get passed out the other end. It's a bit different when you consider water pipes and contamination of soil etc where the lead is dissolved in the water. That is far more likely to get in to the blood stream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon 3 Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 The facts are lead is rightly or wrongly banned for shooting wildfowl so we just need to get on with it. Steel gives a good alternative as long as you get your head around bigger loads of bigger shot, i am no expert in reloading so buy steel shells off of the shelf and they (mostly) work very well. Find a shell that you like and patterns well and get out there and shoot!! I have shot plenty of duck with steel and have never thought the meat damage was excessive at a decent range. BUT i believe that we need to concentrate on trying to keep lead shot an option for non wildfowl, by whinging and whining about how rubbish steel is won't save lead shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Does anyone know of a gun being damaged by the use of steel shot? No Or damaged by the continual use of steel shot? No Does anyone know of a gun being damaged by shooting steel shot through tighter than half choke? No I don't think knocking steel is going to help the case for retaining lead shot. The only way to do that is to debunk some of the myths perpetuated by the anti lead brigade. However, I would say that a ban on lead shot would have a huge impact on shooting in this country. It's all very well saying steel kills with the right gun/cartridge combination but that's not always the end of the matter. According to BASC more and more people are using no.5 shot for their game shooting, so going up 2 sizes in steel shoot would mean using steel no.3's. That's HP steel proof territory. I would say there are very few SxS's that are proofed for such loads, and just as importantly quite a few O/U's too. In a single swipe a huge amount of game shooters could find themselves with a gun unsuitable for purpose. As for high bird shoots, well they would become a thing of the past overnight, unless of course 3.5" semi-auto's were allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon 3 Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 As for high bird shoots, well they would become a thing of the past overnight, unless of course 3.5" semi-auto's were allowed. Are you saying i can't take my sx3 and 42g of steel 1's to my driven day in devon this year , just imagine it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 According to BASC more and more people are using no.5 shot for their game shooting, It seems like every week there is a chorus of people on here killing 50yd pigeons with 28g 7.5s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Are you saying i can't take my sx3 and 42g of steel 1's to my driven day in devon this year , just imagine it!! Maybe not the best idea for this year. Keep it handy though just in case lead is banned. On a serious note though, IF lead was banned do you think people would adjust...or just call it a day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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