.17 HMR

[White Lodge]

Hi All.

 

This evening I shot a rabbit, the first with my CZ 452 .17HMR.

 

It was about 40 to 50 yards away and I was using Hornady 17gr V Max, the ones with the red ballistic tips.

 

When I went to pick the rabbit up I was expecting it to be all turned inside out and with no head and all the other horror stories I have read about.

I was surprised to find it complete, nothing missing at all. The only thing I could see was a small tuft at the entrance wound at the chest.

However when i picked it up to put it in my bag it was like picking up a bag of jelly, the space around the chest and spine was all wobbly.

 

Is this normal with the HMR?

 

I would normally try for the head shot but it was getting dark and I was after something to temp a fox that has decimated the local poultry population.

 

Anyway what do you think?

 

Edited November 27, 2012 by White Lodge

[mad1]

Yep they are great at turning them into soup ideal for ferrets if you don't head shoot ;-)

[delburt0]

yes totally normal, the 17g is very clean with no mess at all, even though they look like they explode on impact and put the rabbit straight down wherever you shoot it ,

when you get to it,it looks like you have hit the bunny @ 100yds with a .22rf, dont worry about it head shots are best taken though if you want to leave it edible............

ps if you ever get a 22-250 do not try and shoot one with this, you have to walk around for 5 mins picking the bits up, at least you dont need to skin the parts you can find........ congrats on your 1st hmr bunny.........

Edited November 27, 2012 by delburt0

[cossygun]

As said mate its normal just like a bag of mushy peas if its a body shot ,head shots all the way mate if theyre for the pot,but they aren't pretty to look at lol

[White Lodge]

Ok, cheers. Will the hollow points I have do the same or is it just the ballistic tips?

Are 20g any good? I heard they are not so accurate.

[V8 90]

Not sure but you'll have to re-zero with them. I use 17gn Remmy Accutips all the time in both my Hmrs - as said above head shot only,if your eating or selling on - I chest shoot them if I'm just clearing off arable crops & leaving them out for fox bait.

[Brown Sauce]

Use cci 20g soft point in my hmr, find them more accurate to 150yards than the slightly lighter 17g v-max.

 

Don't except much left if you hit it in the body, with a hollow/soft or game point, as you'll be left with a nice exit hole and not much usable meat.

[delburt0]

i use the hornady 17grain you might find the grouping on the 20g is more wayward than the 17g and the effects are not that much different, i think you will find that hmr users revert back to the 17g after trying the 20g "this is my personal opinion" also the majority of hmr uses that purchase there ammo from rimfire magic "southyorkshireshootingsupplies" ..i would stick with the ballistic apposed to the hollow you will be going from soup to picking bits up.....

Edited November 27, 2012 by delburt0

[Gimlet]

Ballistic tips are unpredictable. Its not just the HMR. I was surprised when I started serious rabbit shooting with my .222. I was aleady familiar enough with .22 cfs as foxing tools with softpoints, but ballistics against bunnies with 1000 ft/lb I thought would look like hand grenades but in fact the results varied hugely. Usually it blows a fist sized hole but other times it looks like a car crash. Range makes little difference. I've eaten plenty of triple shot rabbits and left just as many for the crows. Head shots can take the head off completely or pass through with a thumb nail exit hole just like an HMR, and sometimes its hard to see any external injury at all and then when the skin comes off the the carcase is in two bits. I shot one once square in the chest, only at about 90 yds if I remember. It was almost too dark to shoot and I didn't know it was there until it stood up on its haunches and flashed its white belly patch. I caught it bang in the middle and it sounded like someone whacking a dustbin with a shovel. I assumed it would look like a burst balloon but in fact I could see no injury at all. I ran my hand all over it and I couldn't even pick up any blood. But as with yours it felt like a bag of jelly. I paunched it, or started to, found the orange tip of the bullet straight away but everthing else inside was soup. No exit wound, just a sack of sludge. I didn't trouble the ferrets with that one, Reynard had it.

Its not an HMR thing, its ballistic tips. It all depends on what they strike first and how they fragment.

 

Edit:

I will say this though: I've never had a runner with the triple. :unsure: Just instant motionlessness with a moisture cloud drifting away.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Gimlet

[Amazed]

It's the same with the 22 hornet the vmax bullets where designed to blow up Lil furry things In America. If I want to eat it I use a soft tip bullet and upper body/ head shot still you get some odd results.

 

I shot a crow at about 120 yards with a 40 grain vmax and I hit it just under the wing it sort of puffed up like one of those spiky fish lol I found part of the bullet in the top of its head. Very strange.

[Dekers]

Nothing is NORMAL with the HMR V-Max, the external results can be visually brutal or invisible.

 

Depends on range, quarry, impact point, angle, etc!

 

Internally they are usually pretty effective!

[al4x]

Internally they are usually pretty effective!

 

thats the main point, head shoot and hit a load of bone and it can do a heap of damage but chest shoot at range when the bullet has slowed then results externally can be next to nothing. I wouldn't bother with the 20g hollow points they just zip through without the trauma you get with the 17 vmax. That includes chest shot foxes at 100 yards entry and exit and a fox that runs, dead on its feet but they do tend to run. I had two in a row and though the dog picked them fine had she not been there I'd have never found them as they just got into thick cover and died. Vmax on the other hand do tend to put them down on the spot at sensible ranges.

[Whitebridges]

I use Hornady V-MAX 17 grain and get variable results in terms of trauma at the target. As Dekers say's it depends on range, quarry, impact point, angle, etc.

 

Hearing some good reports on the Winchester VMAX 17grain anyone tried these and the Hornady's? Any difference? One any better than the other?

 

Don't get me wrong i'm very happy with the Hornady rounds just haven't tried the Winchesters.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Whitebridges

[coyotemaster]

Just out of curiosity isn't there a bit of copper jacket fragments in the meat after the "soup" occurrence? It would seem so as the vmax on fox and coyotes produces many shards inside the chest cavity, but it is usually a 25 grain bullet.

[Rimfireboy]

Just out of curiosity isn't there a bit of copper jacket fragments in the meat after the "soup" occurrence? It would seem so as the vmax on fox and coyotes produces many shards inside the chest cavity, but it is usually a 25 grain bullet.

 

Yes there's shards of bullet to be found inside a rabbit. I've shot them in the head and found shards of bullet in the back legs before.

[Gimlet]

With HMR BTs I usaully find copper jacket on or near the surface, the outer shell of the bullet fragments inside the body cavity but can go in all directions and the tip and core like a little nail sometimes turns up against a bone and sometimes exits with a tiny exit wound.

 

As for Winchesters, I use them all the time. No difference in terminal effect between them and Hornady, I find them more accurate in my rifle. Actually the Hornadys group slightly tighter, though only by millimeters, but for some reason they always throw a flyer in each group. Don't understand why. Winchester are consistent 10mm at 100 yds with no strays, so i stick with them.

[Catweazle]

The terminal effects are unpredictable except that they are invariably "terminal". I've shot rabbits in the shoulder and they just had a broken shoulder, smashed heart and a finger sized exit hole. Another time with the same shot placement the exit hole will be the size of a golf ball and front organs liquidized.

 

Copper fragments travel a long way through the body, they usually end up right next to the skin so when you skin the rabbit you can see the jagged little holes in the white covering over the flesh. I too have found copper in the back legs of headshot bunnies, but I think they exited the head and re-entered at the legs rather than travelled right through the body.

 

I once hit a large rabbit from the front, a bit too high, the V-MAX ploughed a shallow trench through the top of his head and ran right down the side of his spine, opened it up like a book.