darren m Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 A mate of mine as just been refused his shotgun cert. all i know is he was suspected of drink driving , the police called to his home address after a neighbour had reported him arriving home in a drunking state . this was a total fabrication ( i am told ) , he went indoors had a drink or 2 before his sunday dinner , came out to his car for his cigs and the police ( plane clothes ) jumped him and breathalized him , by then he was over the limit . the police decided to look over his car and there on the floor is a couple of shotgun carts unfired , then they get real shirty , he gets a bit shirty protesting is innocence and he gets arrested . the final outcome anyway is he was not charged and not cautioned at all . the reason for the carts was he had just returned from the clay ground after a sunday morning shoot with me and his dad ( his dad lends him a gun and keeps it locked at his own address ). he wasn't drunk when he left us . anyway that happend months ago and in the mean time he applied for his shotgun cert and installed a safe and waited. after a lot of pestering to find out why it was taking so long , he had a reply. apparentley because of the above incident , the officer in charge as refused him a shotgun cert . my mate as been told he can appeal but it as been deceided on a refusal at the officers desgretion. where does he go from here , never charged , never cautioned any ideas chaps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasons gold Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Is he a member of basc or the like. His options are appeal or live with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornet 6 Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) Appeal or live with it ? What about asking for the refusal in writing giving the full reasons, and the evidence to support this decision, from the Chief Constable. Without it in writing he has nothing to appeal anyway. Neil. Edited January 11, 2013 by Hornet 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasons gold Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Well he is going get that any way if not already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Was it a formal refusal? I.e. in writing? Or did they just call and say no? The CC has to comply with the law is this chap a risk to public safety? Drink driving is not an offence that makes him a prohibited person even if convicted ..... But after atherton they are being cautious I don't know the guy and cannot judge his suitability depends if he wants to pay for an appeal (specialist solicitor letter may be enough) or wait 2 years and try again........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLondon Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 The law as I understand it regarding drink driving is if found in possession of the keys and next to the car you will get done for DD on the grounds you intended to drive but were stop doing so by said old bill. The fact that your mate got shirty could be seen as a suspect temperament . I'm not saying its right but that's how it could possibly be veiwed. That said the issuing officer probably spoke to the arresting officer and...well you know the rest. I'd appeal myself as you never know Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bi9johnny Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 I always thought there were two situations , drink driving = self explanatory , drunk and in charge of a motor vehicle = over the limit with the means I.e. the keys to drive said motor vehicle. Unfortunately your friend may fall into the second if he was in the car when they saw him. Don't understand why they were paying him so much attention if he was only getting something out of the car. No charge and no caution does not make a criminal Fight it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulpicide Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 This is why I advise people to join a shooting organisation Before they apply for a cert. He can appeal but he will have to pay for it himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 he was not charged or cautioned. he doesnt have to justify any reason for the spent shells. the officer in charge? is that the chief constable? as neither of those facts should stop anyone from gaining a shotgun licence. i actually didnt know getting caught with car keys whilst drunk is an offence. i`ll look it up ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzy518 Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) For a charge of drunk in charge it is not enough to be in or near the car with the keys whilst drunk. The police have to show an intent to drive (or has driven) whilst drunk) This can be putting lights or seatbelt on or windscreen wipers etc. As for the officers being plain clothed By virtue of S6 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 the power to request a breath specimen is only conferred on constables in uniform. Edited January 10, 2013 by ozzy518 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDown Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Why are we having a drink drive debate when he hasn't been charged? You will need to request the refusal in writing and appeal if you think it is necessary. Is this the only little incident your mate has ever been involved in? Without having the reasons for refusal it is conjecture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huffhuff Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) he was not charged or cautioned. he doesnt have to justify any reason for the spent shells. the officer in charge? is that the chief constable? as neither of those facts should stop anyone from gaining a shotgun licence. i actually didnt know getting caught with car keys whilst drunk is an offence. i`ll look it up ! They weren't spent cartridges... they were live. I find it hard to believe he wasn't cautioned...even if nothing came of it. Edited January 10, 2013 by huffhuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzy518 Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 No law against having shotgun cartridges without a certificate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huffhuff Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 No law against having shotgun cartridges without a certificate. I never said there was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiltsmark Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 I never said there was. The way you wrote it does seem like thats what you are saying. still cleared up now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 You pal needs to get it in writing if they are refusing to grant, as far as I can see he’s just has a phone call. It’s clear he has not been charged, so I agree the debate about Drink Driving / Drunk in Change are not relevant. From what’s been written, it’s ‘temperate habits’ that the officers seems to have an issue with. If he is refused, then he needs to have a talk with his licencing team about this, either on his own or via his shooting organisation representative, to find out if there are any other issues, if these issues can be overcome now, and if not how long it will be before he can successfully apply again. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynny Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Off what you have said he has done nowt wrong, as for getting shirty with the officers , it pays to keep your gob shut and keep your cool in a situation with the cops as it usually comes back and bites you in the rear, as your mate has experienced, Appeal and get it in writing the reasons why he's been refused, but for gods sake tell him to keep his replies civil ,professional and polite Atb Flynny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Off what you have said he has done nowt wrong, as for getting shirty with the officers , it pays to keep your gob shut and keep your cool in a situation with the cops as it usually comes back and bites you in the rear, as your mate has experienced, Appeal and get it in writing the reasons why he's been refused, but for gods sake tell him to keep his replies civil ,professional and polite Atb Flynny +1 Give them a ring and ask if he can have an informal visit chat with his prospective feo. See what's what. Before he starts down the apeal formal refusal route. Then at least he will know why and what conserns they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huffhuff Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 The way you wrote it does seem like thats what you are saying. still cleared up now. I was merely correcting the good cookoff. However, regardless of whether there is a law against it, leaving live shells in view is not the most sensible of things is it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLondon Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 A few years back I spoke to a bloke who got refused because of an Anger management issue I asked if he was going to appeal. He said he couldn't on the account he'd rung them up threw some ****s into them I was drinking a cuppa at the time well you can guess where that went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 The facts as stated - seem odd. There has got to be far more to this. A couple of drinks before his lunch would not normally put him over the limit. It is also a little more than co-incidence that he gets reported for drink driving - when he had drunk nothing - Police arrive and shock horror, he has in fact drunk enough to fail a breathalizer. Also a couple of live shells just happened to have fallen on the floor of his car. If he has given the OP the full facts, then he should ask for an explanation and get professional advice. I would wager a small amount that the man has given the OP edited highlights of what happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Indeed Gordon my take on it would be we are hearing half the story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 total waste of time i'm afraid, having seen someone go through a refusal (they had a SGC and FAC which were surrendered at the first sign of a disturbance to prevent any accusations) - the firearms dept/police will take anything up to 9-12 months to eventually get you the refusal paperwork (you can call as often as you like) by this point you will have (they hope) got bored and given up - if not they may call you in for a meeting and explain that they have called the meeting as "they were concerned you may act aggressively when you read the news of the refusal". :blink: The person I saw going through this was refused due to a domestic occurance and surrendered thier SGC and FAC - the problem was when they reapplied for them as a breach of the peace charge leading to an assult charge had been slapped on them - they had letters to confirm they were no threat to members of the public from doctors, solicitors, gamekeepers, the ex-spouse who was involved in the original domestic disturbance. This person had never had any form of criminal record and served queen and country armed for 11 years without incident and had a fire. The best response they ever had from BASC was...well - lame at best - not knocking BASC - just commenting on the e-mail I read and the response given when we went along to a BASC evening to meet with Colin Shedden - which was along the lines of "we can assist when this goes to court but you would need to cover initial costs which could get quite hefty... This was 6 years ago and the person still does not have thier certs back.... sorry to pass on bad news but the above was a farce from start to finish - I sat in the court for a one of the hearings and I kid you not the following statement was read out - " on XXX date Mrs XXX's son called the police to say that Mr XXX was being abusive and threatening during an argument, on attending XXX address the officers found the situation was unhealthy and suggested MR XXX should accompany them to the station to allow the situation to calm down - on leaving XXX address Mr XXX knocked a number of Minstral confectionary out of Mrs XXX's hand as he exited the property - this lead to an assult charge. :blink: Regards, Gixer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebarrels Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 The facts as stated - seem odd. There has got to be far more to this. A couple of drinks before his lunch would not normally put him over the limit. It is also a little more than co-incidence that he gets reported for drink driving - when he had drunk nothing - Police arrive and shock horror, he has in fact drunk enough to fail a breathalizer. Also a couple of live shells just happened to have fallen on the floor of his car. If he has given the OP the full facts, then he should ask for an explanation and get professional advice. I would wager a small amount that the man has given the OP edited highlights of what happened. :good: BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiLisCer Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 total waste of time i'm afraid, having seen someone go through a refusal (they had a SGC and FAC which were surrendered at the first sign of a disturbance to prevent any accusations) - the firearms dept/police will take anything up to 9-12 months to eventually get you the refusal paperwork (you can call as often as you like) by this point you will have (they hope) got bored and given up - if not they may call you in for a meeting and explain that they have called the meeting as "they were concerned you may act aggressively when you read the news of the refusal". :blink: The person I saw going through this was refused due to a domestic occurance and surrendered thier SGC and FAC - the problem was when they reapplied for them as a breach of the peace charge leading to an assult charge had been slapped on them - they had letters to confirm they were no threat to members of the public from doctors, solicitors, gamekeepers, the ex-spouse who was involved in the original domestic disturbance. This person had never had any form of criminal record and served queen and country armed for 11 years without incident and had a fire. The best response they ever had from BASC was...well - lame at best - not knocking BASC - just commenting on the e-mail I read and the response given when we went along to a BASC evening to meet with Colin Shedden - which was along the lines of "we can assist when this goes to court but you would need to cover initial costs which could get quite hefty... This was 6 years ago and the person still does not have thier certs back.... sorry to pass on bad news but the above was a farce from start to finish - I sat in the court for a one of the hearings and I kid you not the following statement was read out - " on XXX date Mrs XXX's son called the police to say that Mr XXX was being abusive and threatening during an argument, on attending XXX address the officers found the situation was unhealthy and suggested MR XXX should accompany them to the station to allow the situation to calm down - on leaving XXX address Mr XXX knocked a number of Minstral confectionary out of Mrs XXX's hand as he exited the property - this lead to an assult charge. :blink: Regards, Gixer It was an assault! - and witnessed by Police he is never going to get off it! There does not even need to be physical contact to constitute common assault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.