shotgun refusel please read

[Gunneravi]

Just try appealing see what happens

[darren m]

The facts as stated - seem odd. There has got to be far more to this. A couple of drinks before his lunch would not normally put him over the limit. It is also a little more than co-incidence that he gets reported for drink driving - when he had drunk nothing - Police arrive and shock horror, he has in fact drunk enough to fail a breathalizer. Also a couple of live shells just happened to have fallen on the floor of his car.

 

If he has given the OP the full facts, then he should ask for an explanation and get professional advice. I would wager a small amount that the man has given the OP edited highlights of what happened.

 

yea i know , but fact is we were with him just a half before he got home .

this neighbour who reported him has a bit of an issue with him , but thats another story and not relevent ( its something about a noisey car exhaust thats pee-ing him off ).

the shells were bought at the club , we did,nt finish the round as the battery failed on the DTL trap , so he did have a few carts unfired they had been in his pocket ( threw box away ) and he took them out to drive .

as far as the drink , he had 2 whiskey's at home ( he said ).

re- the refusel over the phone i believe

 

thanks for all the info guys , it sounded so wrong to me too , but i,m sure its worth a try for an appeal

[gixer1]

 

 

It was an assault! - and witnessed by Police he is never going to get off it!

 

There does not even need to be physical contact to constitute common assault.

 

Not the case actually, I know a few people with an assault charge and a SGC....

 

The system is flawed - it needs standardised - at the moment it's based on personal opinion of a chief constable which can vary massively.

 

Regards,

Gixer

[welsh1]

The police will have to give a letter stating the reasons for refusal,a telephone call is just a heads up,his feo will call and deliver the letter and have a chat,it could be that they will grant in the future but not just now because of the recent contact with the police,if your mate was argumentative they will say that he didn't stay calm and cooperate and could be seen as someone with a temper.

The best thing is a chat with the feo when he calls.

[Bluebarrels]

Not the case actually, I know a few people with an assault charge and a SGC....

 

The system is flawed - it needs standardised - at the moment it's based on personal opinion of a chief constable which can vary massively.

 

Regards,

Gixer

And so do I he applied for his SGC same time as me and they arrived at the same time however when it came to applying for his FAC it took him 18mths longer than me BB

Edited January 10, 2013 by Bluebarrels

[HDAV]

total waste of time i'm afraid, having seen someone go through a refusal (they had a SGC and FAC which were surrendered at the first sign of a disturbance to prevent any accusations) - the firearms dept/police will take anything up to 9-12 months to eventually get you the refusal paperwork (you can call as often as you like) by this point you will have (they hope) got bored and given up - if not they may call you in for a meeting and explain that they have called the meeting as "they were concerned you may act aggressively when you read the news of the refusal". :blink:

 

The person I saw going through this was refused due to a domestic occurance and surrendered thier SGC and FAC - the problem was when they reapplied for them as a breach of the peace charge leading to an assult charge had been slapped on them - they had letters to confirm they were no threat to members of the public from doctors, solicitors, gamekeepers, the ex-spouse who was involved in the original domestic disturbance.

 

This person had never had any form of criminal record and served queen and country armed for 11 years without incident and had a fire.

 

The best response they ever had from BASC was...well - lame at best - not knocking BASC - just commenting on the e-mail I read and the response given when we went along to a BASC evening to meet with Colin Shedden - which was along the lines of "we can assist when this goes to court but you would need to cover initial costs which could get quite hefty...

 

This was 6 years ago and the person still does not have thier certs back....

 

sorry to pass on bad news but the above was a farce from start to finish - I sat in the court for a one of the hearings and I kid you not the following statement was read out - " on XXX date Mrs XXX's son called the police to say that Mr XXX was being abusive and threatening during an argument, on attending XXX address the officers found the situation was unhealthy and suggested MR XXX should accompany them to the station to allow the situation to calm down - on leaving XXX address Mr XXX knocked a number of Minstral confectionary out of Mrs XXX's hand as he exited the property - this lead to an assult charge. :blink:

 

Regards,

 

Gixer

And he won't play the game and go to court, that's the procedure and until he does they will probably never grant one.........I personally doubt it has been brought to the attention of the CC and has been stopped at FEO or FLO level, until its in writing ( formal refusal) it's not refused just not granted ie limbo it's down to the person concerned to make decision to pony up and take it too court!

[carpentermark]

you said he was arrested but wasnt charged and there was no caution so im assuming he was totally let off and he wouldnt have declared it on his sgc application, therefore how did FEO and the licensing department know anything about it or even that it happened at all??? let alone refusing application on the grounds of NOTHING?!

something doesnt add up here?

Edited January 10, 2013 by carpentermark

[gixer1]

 

And he won't play the game and go to court, that's the procedure and until he does they will probably never grant one.........I personally doubt it has been brought to the attention of the CC and has been stopped at FEO or FLO level, until its in writing ( formal refusal) it's not refused just not granted ie limbo it's down to the person concerned to make decision to pony up and take it too court!

 

Nope - The FEO sighted it off, no problems at all and was dissapointed to hear he didnt get it....

 

Our FEO is a superb guy with a common sense approach and I am sad to say he will most likely retire soon which will be a big loss to this area.

 

Regards,

Gixer

[robbiep]

you said he was arrested but wasnt charged and there was no caution so im assuming he was totally let off and he wouldnt have declared it on his sgc application, therefore how did FEO and the licensing department know anything about it or even that it happened at all??? let alone refusing application on the grounds of NOTHING?!

something doesnt add up here?

FEO, etc know everything and anything in terms of dealings you may have had with the police.

When I applied, the fact that I was a keyholder in my works, and there had been break-ins there was even known, was brought up as a possible security concern during the visit, until I pointed out that the breakin had been 15 miles from my home !

[njc110381]

I can't help but think that him kicking off and getting arrested is the issue, not the potential of drink driving. Charged or not the officers would at the time have arrested him for a reason, generally because he was acting out of order. Temperment doesn't need to be judged by the law, such a thing as a poor reference would get you pulled up on an application and that's just what the coppers who had arrested him have given pretty much!

[ST3V3]

if he does get refused can he still go to the clay ground as a refusal sees him as an unfit person ?

[Guest cookoff013]

I was merely correcting the good cookoff.

 

However, regardless of whether there is a law against it, leaving live shells in view is not the most sensible of things is it!

 

i need to read things more carefully.

(and clean my car)

[bruno22rf]

Minstrals gixer1?-good job they were not Halls Soothers-the police would have claimed he had gone Menthol

[welsh1]

Minstrals gixer1?-good job they were not Halls Soothers-the police would have claimed he had gone Menthol

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QR9QP0Rjsc

 

:lol:

[gixer1]

Minstrals gixer1?-good job they were not Halls Soothers-the police would have claimed he had gone Menthol

 

:lol:

[bedwards1966]

if he does get refused can he still go to the clay ground as a refusal sees him as an unfit person ?

 

Yes, unless you are a prohibited person under the firearms act (which requires a prison sentence) you can handle/shoot firearms, no matter how unfit you appear to be. That's not to say a clay shoot would always let just anybody shoot, but they aren't prevented from doing so legally.

[Lock Stock & Barrel]

Appeal or live with it ?

What about asking for the refusal in writing giving the full reasons, and the evidence to support this decision, from the Chief Constable.

Without it in writing he [has] nothing to appeal anyway.

 

Neil.

 

This ^^^^^

[darren m]

if he does get refused can he still go to the clay ground as a refusal sees him as an unfit person ?

 

good point mate .

 

what i,m going to do is copy and paste all these posts and e-mail them to him , the more you chaps comment the more i,m wondering myself if there is something else going on .

will get him to contact BASC and FLO asking for conformation in writing to start with

 

thanks all

[Mikaveli]

all i know is he was suspected of drink driving , the police called to his home address after a neighbour had reported him arriving home in a drunking state .

 

this was a total fabrication ( i am told ) , he went indoors had a drink or 2 before his sunday dinner , came out to his car for his cigs and the police ( plane clothes ) jumped him and breathalized him , by then he was over the limit .

 

That doesn't make sense. If what he says is true, he arrived home, had two drinks and when he first went outside the police were waiting for him...

• Why would the neighbour ring the fuzz saying he was drink driving - if he didn't arrive home drunk, that's bloody good guesswork for the neighbour to know he was drinking indoors.
  
• If he just had 'a drink or two' how did he blow over the limit? Alcohol takes a while to be absorbed into the blood stream - and two drinks is rarely enough for a grown man to blow a positive reading. I've been breathalysed after a lunchtime pint and I blew 5mg - the limit is about 32 / 35mg.
  

 

the police decided to look over his car and there on the floor is a couple of shotgun carts unfired , then they get real shirty , he gets a bit shirty protesting is innocence and he gets arrested .

 

the reason for the carts was he had just returned from the clay ground after a sunday morning shoot with me and his dad ( his dad lends him a gun and keeps it locked at his own address ).

he wasn't drunk when he left us .

 

Ignoring that he seems to think leaving live shotgun cartridges on display in his vehicle. I think 'a bit shirty' as an admission from a drunk man, probably doesn't do his attitude justice.

 

If you're a polite, reasonable person, the police don't usually give you any problems. My bet is his attitude was very aggressive. Giving a shotgun certificate to a man with no patience, who gets 'shirty' when he's drunk probably isn't a good idea.

 

I appreciate the guy's you mate and you're giving him the benefit of the doubt, but based on what you've told us, it sounds like the police made the right call.

 

If he doesn't agree, he can appeal the decision.

[VikingRebel]

yea i know , but fact is we were with him just a half before he got home .

this neighbour who reported him has a bit of an issue with him , but thats another story and not relevent ( its something about a noisey car exhaust thats pee-ing him off ).

the shells were bought at the club , we did,nt finish the round as the battery failed on the DTL trap , so he did have a few carts unfired they had been in his pocket ( threw box away ) and he took them out to drive .

as far as the drink , he had 2 whiskey's at home ( he said ).

re- the refusel over the phone i believe

 

thanks for all the info guys , it sounded so wrong to me too , but i,m sure its worth a try for an appeal

 

I think a key moral of the story here is, maintain good relations with your neighbours. Failing that, move somewhere where you won't have any neighbours. Too many times i have seen shooters have their lives made difficult because of spiteful neighbours.

[kimh]

he needs BASC

we need to be a picture of sobriety boyz these days as we are the privileged

[GingerCat]

Look, I like a laugh and a joke but a few things come to mind.

The first is simples. Drunk in charge of a motor vehicle. Requires no such actions as putting on a seat belt or even being in a car, simply being drunk and in charge is enough, the title gives it away, a breath test is not necessary, obviously there is massive discretion on this as everyone who has a car and is drunk commits the offence at some point and in the last decade I have know NO ONE to ever be convicted or arrested for it, normally they require you in the vehicle at the very least and to be drunk.

 

2. Getting a bit shirty. Hmm an interesting expression often used by a drunk person to explain sounding off to someone often with fisty cuffs,, in this case a police officer,not Great idea however sometimes understandable.

 

3. Carts spent or otherwise in the car. Is not an offence. Will go no where. Ever.

 

There is more to this than meets the eye, neither reason would stop him getting a sgc, someone is not telling the truth and that is that. As a person that is *********** too on an hourly basis my radar has gone nuclear. As much as I like to believe pw members everytime I just can't as its often a load of **. Get your mate to tell you the truth and then report back, that incident is not enough.

If however it is gospel and he is holier than thou with no reason for cops to jump out on him when he happens to have had a drunk and got shirty due to some reasonable explanation with no previous history then I suggest he speaks to the basc or similar or just goes to court and gets his sgc.

Good luck.

[evo]

tell him to wait for his letter of refusal,it will explain in the letter why he has been refused, once he has got his letter he can then sort it

[kent]

A mate of mine as just been refused his shotgun cert.

all i know is he was suspected of drink driving , the police called to his home address after a neighbour had reported him arriving home in a drunking state .

 

this was a total fabrication ( i am told ) , he went indoors had a drink or 2 before his sunday dinner , came out to his car for his cigs and the police ( plane clothes ) jumped him and breathalized him , by then he was over the limit .

 

the police decided to look over his car and there on the floor is a couple of shotgun carts unfired , then they get real shirty , he gets a bit shirty protesting is innocence and he gets arrested .

 

the final outcome anyway is he was not charged and not cautioned at all .

 

the reason for the carts was he had just returned from the clay ground after a sunday morning shoot with me and his dad ( his dad lends him a gun and keeps it locked at his own address ).

he wasn't drunk when he left us .

 

anyway that happend months ago and in the mean time he applied for his shotgun cert and installed a safe and waited.

after a lot of pestering to find out why it was taking so long , he had a reply.

 

apparentley because of the above incident , the officer in charge as refused him a shotgun cert .

my mate as been told he can appeal but it as been deceided on a refusal at the officers desgretion.

 

where does he go from here , never charged , never cautioned

 

any ideas chaps

I am not reading the rest of the thread on the basis of I agree with the cops decision just on reading the above. He might well have been fine BUT we cannot moan about why so and so should have not been granted or had their certificate revoked after a tragedy if we at the same time we dismiss such events.

[Dibs]

Hmmmm. Full story needed me thinks.

 

A lot of interpretations of "getting shirty" if by that it was any sort of aggression shown to Police then he may as well forget it.

 

You don't need to be convicted of an offence to preclude you from holding a SGC.

 

 

Edited January 12, 2013 by Dibs