medical disclosure documents

[Davyo]

Just been ready the BASC mag that came today. Durham constabulary are proposing to introduce medical disclosure documents for all new applications, renewals & variations. Apparently its gonna be an additional form with all med history that has to be signed by your GP.

[welsh1]

I will laugh my socks off if they ask for all my medical docs,there is a big 10 year space where the army "lost" all my medical notes,along with most others who did gulf war part 1 and got injections.

 

Funnily enough last year when I had an accusation made and my weapons were removed by the police,they contacted my gp and asked for records and his opinion,and he basically told them to foxtrot Oscar,he called me down told me they had asked for my records,and he told them that I had signed for them to be disclosed 3 years before and that they had no right to see them now as I had not given my permission again,funnily enough a few days before the feo had been telling me they were awaiting my medical assessment.

My doctor told them that he had said I was fit and sane 3 years before and nothing had changed,after I had agreed to let him,he then read me out the letter he had drafted and eventually sent,it was swift and to the point,my doc can be a blinding bloke at times.

 

I am not sure that the police can ask for all medical documents,only what is relavent to your application and your ability to posses and use firearms safely.also can they look after that amount of data safely and securely ?

[polester]

How's it going to work if you've not been to doctors in the last 5 years

[welsh1]

How's it going to work if you've not been to doctors in the last 5 years

 

Brilliant.

[JimLondon]

How's it going to work if you've not been to doctors in the last 5 years

 

 

 

It shouldn't make a difference,they can't refuse you for being healthy. As it stands with the Met Police they write to your doctor and ask about specifics ie mental illness,drug,alcohol issues etc, I can't see why they'd want to know about every snotty nose I've had.

 

Jim

[browning123]

I will laugh my socks off if they ask for all my medical docs,there is a big 10 year space where the army "lost" all my medical notes,along with most others who did gulf war part 1 and got injections.

 

Funnily enough last year when I had an accusation made and my weapons were removed by the police,they contacted my gp and asked for records and his opinion,and he basically told them to foxtrot Oscar,he called me down told me they had asked for my records,and he told them that I had signed for them to be disclosed 3 years before and that they had no right to see them now as I had not given my permission again,funnily enough a few days before the feo had been telling me they were awaiting my medical assessment.

My doctor told them that he had said I was fit and sane 3 years before and nothing had changed,after I had agreed to let him,he then read me out the letter he had drafted and eventually sent,it was swift and to the point,my doc can be a blinding bloke.

I am not sure that the police can ask for all medical documents,only what is relavent to your application and your ability to posses and use firearms safely.also can they look after that amount of data safely and securely ?

Top bloke your Doctor!

[mossy835]

and its all about,taking guns away from us all;

[Imperfection]

How's it going to work if you've not been to doctors in the last 5 years

 

Or 10 years in my case.

 

Infact i dont know who my GP is as i do know mine retired several years ago.

[Bloke]

and its all about,taking guns away from us all;

 

Let's not get too alarmed here.

 

I talked to my local FEO about this when I was applying for my FAC - he said they don't ask for notes, as they can't understand them anyway, they have no medical training, they just ask the GP if they know of ANY health/mental health problem that would make the granting of a firearms/shotgun licence inadvisable. As some on here know, I have a multitude of physical problems - some quite nasty ones, (as have several other members on here) and it was no problem, they just had to be sure I wasn't liable to go amok/have a fit/get confused/pass out/die etc, with a loaded gun in my hand! Obviously, if any of those conditions were likely, I wouldn't want to have anybody licenced. I was passed with no problems.

 

Sure, we need to keep an eye on potential legislation, obviously, but, especially in view of the Disability Discrimination Act, and the recent paralympic showings, they would be hard pressed to just use health as a reason to refuse, without proven risk to self or others.

Edited March 1, 2013 by Bloke

[misser]

i take a lot of medication for several serios health issues, obviosly stated this on my shotgun (dont know if firearms cert is different)renewal and it was accompanied by a letter from my gp, it was he who also signed my shotgun cert, im sure he said some medical bod from the police wrote to him for further info - by now my cert had expired and i was ******** myself that it would not be renewed but after a couple of weeks it was, maybe it will follow this type of procedure - atb - regards

[JonathanL]

Just been ready the BASC mag that came today. Durham constabulary are proposing to introduce medical disclosure documents for all new applications, renewals & variations. Apparently its gonna be an additional form with all med history that has to be signed by your GP.

 

This is only half the story. The point of the story is that BASC are strongly urging people NOT to fill the form in. I entirely agree with this position.

 

The only form you have to fill in in the official one required by law. Certificates take long enough to issue without the police enventing yet more paperwork. If a new form is required then the home office should introduce it via the usual procedure of a new Statutory Instrument.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

I will laugh my socks off if they ask for all my medical docs,there is a big 10 year space where the army "lost" all my medical notes,along with most others who did gulf war part 1 and got injections.

 

Funnily enough last year when I had an accusation made and my weapons were removed by the police,they contacted my gp and asked for records and his opinion,and he basically told them to foxtrot Oscar,he called me down told me they had asked for my records,and he told them that I had signed for them to be disclosed 3 years before and that they had no right to see them now as I had not given my permission again,funnily enough a few days before the feo had been telling me they were awaiting my medical assessment.

My doctor told them that he had said I was fit and sane 3 years before and nothing had changed,after I had agreed to let him,he then read me out the letter he had drafted and eventually sent,it was swift and to the point,my doc can be a blinding bloke at times.

 

I am not sure that the police can ask for all medical documents,only what is relavent to your application and your ability to posses and use firearms safely.also can they look after that amount of data safely and securely ?

 

The authorisation you have to sign on the application form allows them to approach your GP to obtain factual details of your medical history. That is all and nothing more. This does not, for instance, allow your GP to offer an opinion as to your medical state nor does it actually require him to talk to them or to release any information if he doesn't want to.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

 

 

Let's not get too alarmed here.

 

I talked to my local FEO about this when I was applying for my FAC - he said they don't ask for notes, as they can't understand them anyway, they have no medical training, they just ask the GP if they know of ANY health/mental health problem that would make the granting of a firearms/shotgun licence inadvisable. As some on here know, I have a multitude of physical problems - some quite nasty ones, (as have several other members on here) and it was no problem, they just had to be sure I wasn't liable to go amok/have a fit/get confused/pass out/die etc, with a loaded gun in my hand! Obviously, if any of those conditions were likely, I wouldn't want to have anybody licenced. I was passed with no problems.

 

Sure, we need to keep an eye on potential legislation, obviously, but, especially in view of the Disability Discrimination Act, and the recent paralympic showings, they would be hard pressed to just use health as a reason to refuse, without proven risk to self or others.

 

This is an additional form they are proposing though. It is not part of the official application form and BASC are adivsing, quite rightly and reasonably, that people do not have to fill it in.

 

J.

[Bloke]

This is an additional form they are proposing though. It is not part of the official application form and BASC are adivsing, quite rightly and reasonably, that people do not have to fill it in.

 

J.

 

Sorry, did not realise this, thanks for the correction . Good for BASC for spotting it.

[Pole Star]

 

I wonder if the GP will have to disclose to your local police if you were ever treated for VD ! lol ! & just in case your thinking THE ANSWER IS NO I HAVEN'T

[bruno22rf]

Pretty sure they are simply checking for such things as Sleep Apnea,Drug Abuse or why,if you are using them,you are taking sedatives.My GP will niether endorse nor condemn the use of guns and simply refuses to reply.

[JonathanL]

Pretty sure they are simply checking for such things as Sleep Apnea,Drug Abuse or why,if you are using them,you are taking sedatives.My GP will niether endorse nor condemn the use of guns and simply refuses to reply.

 

They ask on the application form whether you have any current medical conditions and whether you have had problems with drugs or alcohol. I don't see that sleep aopnea has anything to do with your suitability to possess firearms. That is the official form, designed, authorised and required by the Firearms Rules which are enacted via powers contained in the Firearms Act. Forms are done in this way, through an official procedure, in order that things are done consistently and, more importantly, legally. Just because firearms licensing is a weighty responsibility doesn't mean that the police can do anything they like and it will be automatically legal. You cannot pry into someones private life, let alone their medical records, just because it makes your job easier. The Home Office in their guidance actually point out that doctors should not be contacted as a matter of course and that the police should not engage in fishing expeditions of peoples medical records. Inventing an additional form does not seem to fit with that discrete approach.

 

If the current form isn't sufficient for the police to adequately carry out their task of firearms licensing then it is their job to ask the relevant minister to alter it via the powers he has to make regulations for the administration of the Act. It is not their place to invent additional requirements for the applicant to meet.

 

It's interesting what we have heard from the Atherton inquests today. Durham firearms licensing department have said that there is no formal training for licensing staff and they are not aware of any formal training in any licensing department in the country. That is, quite frankly, almost beyond belief in 2013! Can there be any department in any agency of government who's staff undergo no formal training especially in relation to something as complicated and involved as firearms licensing.

 

So, a department which dos not have a formal training programme for its staff is simply inventing new forms which deal with intensely personal matters without any appreciation of what that involves legally and, presumably, without any actual idea of whether the form will help their job in any way at all.

 

J.

Edited March 5, 2013 by JonathanL

[Livefast123]

Maybe if they had the training they would understand the Home Office guidelines.....

[JonathanL]

Maybe if they had the training they would understand the Home Office guidelines.....

 

What was rather worrying is that the guy giving evidence at the inquest yesterday, the guy who dealt with Athertons application, said that he'd never even seen the HO guidance and didn't know it existed!!!

 

J.

[Vince Green]

A member of our club was asked by the FEO "Whats Bisley" so no problems there with lack of training.

 

The big elephant in the room with medical disclosure is that people won't go to the doctors if they have a problem that they think will count against them. Thats what happens with coach drivers and HGV drivers now.

 

 

Pretty sure they are simply checking for such things as Sleep Apnea,Drug Abuse or why,if you are using them,you are taking sedatives.My GP will niether endorse nor condemn the use of guns and simply refuses to reply.

 

What difference does sleep apnea make? Sorry, you snore so you can't have a FAC? That would be a classic example (if it happened) of people making up the rules as they go along. What next acne or ingrown toenails?

 

It also occours to me, what happens if you are not registered with a GP? Do you have to be? I don't think its law. Here in London there are quite a lot of walk in medical centres where you have to pay but you are seen immediately. Lots of people seem to use them rather than wait two weeks for an appointment

Edited March 7, 2013 by Vince Green

[Pole Star]

Is this all a new thing down south I recently filled out my renewal forms here for the Northern Constabulary & it asked for you to sign a medical disclosure section & the name & address of your doctor .