What would a Ukip Britain look like?

[IXI KARL IXI]

 

 

If we're not in then so what? Do you worry about the laws in Taiwan?

 

 

Nial

 

The law and rules part is in regards to trade and countries trading withy the EU re previous posts

[Vipa]

 

 

You forgetting we have huge natural reserves in oil natural gas and coal, not only in the UK but in our Sovreign countries aswell.

 

If we were not in Europe our population would be nowhere near what it is now, and a lot less pulling money out of the system.

 

Not being in the EU we wouldnt have to keep devaluing our products to pander to lesser EU countries.

 

Britain was Great without the EU not with it.

 

Figgy

 

Coal, yes, natural gas, not sure about but if we have loads, why do we need to import it from Russia?... North sea Oil.... Peaked years ago... There ain't *that* much left!

Edited March 14, 2013 by Vipa

[FalconFN]

 

 

You forgetting we have huge natural reserves in oil natural gas and coal, not only in the UK but in our Sovreign countries aswell.

 

If we were not in Europe our population would be nowhere near what it is now, and a lot less pulling money out of the system.

 

Not being in the EU we wouldnt have to keep devaluing our products to pander to lesser EU countries.

 

Britain was Great without the EU not with it.

 

Figgy

Not any more we don't. We have very little and our main exports are knowledge and finance. As for soverign countries well I don't see Canada or Australia handing over their resources.

[figgy]

Like fools Vipa our government privatised our oil and gas industry and sold it off same as our Electricity and Water.

 

We still retain the mineral rights to most and new oil is still being discovered.

 

If as Henry D says we are told to go away we would be worse off, but thats the same whether in the EU or not.

 

We do a lot of buisness with the rest of the world outside the EU countries but are bound by rules within the EU as to how we do that buisness so it does'nt impact on member countries.

 

Some smaller countries benefit greatly from the EU I don't believe we do.

 

What did we do before.

 

For a united Europe to work it would have to govern all aspects of every member country not just bits and peices.

 

Figgy

[Reece]

we wouldn't have a say in EU laws and rules if we left, that's a fact as no non EU member has a right. We wouldn't have a choice to pick and choose what laws we agree to and don't.

 

Also the policy's used are relating to farming and fishing and law. We would still need are own policy in regards to farming, fishing and laws. No doubt a big board of MPs and civil servants taking time to decide on how to Change and run things, at a cost of course. Then inspectors to up hold said policy's. I would guess the cost would stay around the same.

 

That's not what I meant. What I meant is that as the EU sells more to Britain than Britain sells to the EU, we would still have some influence if we left, as the EU needs us more than we need them. We wouldn't be directly in the EU, and some of the rules they make won't be made with us in mind, but the people who say that we would be "on the outside" if we left the EU are exaggerating. And as I said, we need to be trading with the rest of the world.

 

And a lot of their rules would go. Some would be kept but a lot of them are pointless and irrelevant to us. That's the problem with a one size fits all policy being enforced across the whole of Europe.

 

Can I just say something at my work we have a 1MW hydro power station and it has not been working for the past three weeks, due to no rain and frozen grounds. And where I live is probably one of the wettest area's of the UK. Although I like Hydro power stations it has blocked the path of any Trout or Salmon going up the river. Then we are at the stage of working with a community to put up a Wind turbine, which I totally disagree on but cant say anything cause my company is involved. You wouldn't believe how much subsidies these Hydro's and wind turbines get it is unbelievable, saying that it is probably paying my wages..

 

Coal power stations should be built while we look for more efficient and environmentally friendly ways of making power, rather than sticking up hundreds or thousands of wind turbines. And also we should go ahead with this carbon capture they were thinking of a few years back.

 

I'm no expert, but could water wheels be used to generate electricity? I don't think they would block the path of fish moving up or down the river.

Edited March 14, 2013 by Reece

[Nial]

The law and rules part is in regards to trade and countries trading withy the EU re previous posts

 

Aye, but as my previous post 80% of Britains economic activity ISN'T trading with europe, yet _everything_ is covered by the regulations.

 

Those selling into Europe would have to make sure their good comply with the rules but the rest of us could get on with it.

 

We'd be able to use 60W incandescent bulbs again.

 

Nial.

[Vipa]

 

 

We'd be able to use 60W incandescent bulbs again.

 

Nial.

 

Would you want to?

[Nial]

I'm no expert, but could water wheels be used to generate electricity? I don't think they would block the path of fish moving up or down the river.

 

They could but they wouldn't give you much energy.

 

Think about old water wheel driven mills, if they could have got more energy out of the water to drive more machines they probably would have done.

 

With modern design you might get 5* the energy out but it's not that much really, you'd maybe supply a street of houses

but you're not going to supply a small town.

 

The difference between renewables and a traditional coal/gas/nuclear fired power station is like the difference between a horse and a V8 petrol engine.

 

As that youtube link suggests, Thorium reactors might be our salvation.

 

 

Nial

 

Would you want to?

 

Yep, and I'd like to be able to decide for myself rather than have to use poisonous CFC bulbs or expensive halogens that don't seem to last.

 

 

Nial.

[Steppenwolf]

exactly, voting for them and hoping for a more right wing goverment will result in a left wing goverment.

 

No it means the Tories will have to make a coalition with them if they want to stay in Power, so Tories will have to actually carry out some of the more "common sense" policies that UKIP agre to if they want to stay in power.

[al4x]

No it means the Tories will have to make a coalition with them if they want to stay in Power, so Tories will have to actually carry out some of the more "common sense" policies that UKIP agre to if they want to stay in power.

 

thats actually a scenario I hadn't thought about and actually might work quite well.

[Penelope]

thats actually a scenario I hadn't thought about and actually might work quite well.

 

Which would take as back to the old two party right/left system. Cons/Ukip v Labour/LibDem coillitions.

[al4x]

the latter two there really don't even bear thinking about with that combination we'd all be condemned to wearing pink, gay marriage would be compulsory and the country would be bust and as for shooting come on animals could be left alone and we could all go vegetarian

[Penelope]

the latter two there really don't even bear thinking about with that combination we'd all be condemned to wearing pink, gay marriage would be compulsory and the country would be bust and as for shooting come on animals could be left alone and we could all go vegetarian

 

Would make it nice and easy deciding who to vote for though. But seriously, both combinations are more suitable bedfellows politcally than the current situation.

[al4x]

Would make it nice and easy deciding who to vote for though. But seriously, both combinations are more suitable bedfellows politcally than the current situation.

 

The current situation is interesting on keeping things honest, I actually don't know what else the conservatives could have done in power. They have cut the defecit as hard as they dare reduced the number of people employed by the state and in the meantime a global recession has been going on. They have been criticised in all ways for not cutting enough then cutting too much its not exactly a precise science getting out of this mess as while the global issues go on tax receipts are low you only need a small bounce for things to start improving rapidly. There are more people in work than ever its not as bad in some ways as it could be, I certainly don't think they could have spent their way out of this which is the other option. Having the lib dems on has stopped them doing too much and that is probably what was required.

[Steppenwolf]

If cons/ukip join against labour/libdem the numbers would be very tight, depending on which poll you look at.

[Grandalf]

Amazing how a thread can change direction more easily than political parties!

1. I am atheist.

2. I hate racism of any kind. (I was once nearly the only white face in a 50 miles radius - it makes you think differently...)

3. I hate sexism of any kind. (I have trained very many excellent female pilots - and sum numpties too...)

4. I have been a member of UKIP since it was formed out of the wreckage of the Referendum Party of which I was also a member.

The political system of this democracy is not democratic. The most significant change in our way of life has been our involvement with Europe but we have never had a referendum except for the original one about joining a common market. (I voted yes).

Because of our party political system the only thing politicians worry about is getting voted back into power. The country is broke because the last governments, of both persuasions, have bought votes in the run up to elections with stupid give aways like winter fuel payments to every pensioner - not just the ones who need it - a ten pound Christmas 'gift' for all pensioners - what can you get with ten quid but the cost to the country must be enormous. The council houses were all sold off but no provision was made for building new ones. Just about everything that the country owned was sold to avoid putting up taxes or spending less.

The lights will go out shortly due to total lack of long term planning - nothing is planned beyond four years because of the next election coming up. Rail and road communications are chaotic for a modern country.

Our schools are a shambles (the basic policy is changed every four years), the country pays out billions to immigrants who have only come here for the handouts they can't get in their own countries, the armed forces have had the heart dragged out of them, the town and city streets are awash with drunks who cost the police and NHS millions every weekend.

What does any government do about these things - talk a lot and worry about being voted out at the next election.

I will vote UKIP again - and if they can't sort it out then I will stop voting until the whole system is altered.

Trouble is the only ones who can do that are the party in power - so it is never going to happen.

[al4x]

Grandalf do you have any idea how many council houses are being built at the moment?

[Grandalf]

Grandalf do you have any idea how many council houses are being built at the moment?

Can't tell you the figure but if they had built one for one from the outset there would be a hell of a lot more around now.

[al4x]

there are bucket loads going up every new development over a certain size is obligated to build some, many build far more than obliged as they know its money to fund the rest. My other half gives them away for a living and its surprising just how ungrateful the average tenant usually is. Its one of those rumours they have all been given away and not replaced

Edited March 14, 2013 by al4x

[Penelope]

Amazing how a thread can change direction more easily than political parties!

1. I am atheist.

2. I hate racism of any kind. (I was once nearly the only white face in a 50 miles radius - it makes you think differently...)

3. I hate sexism of any kind. (I have trained very many excellent female pilots - and sum numpties too...)

4. I have been a member of UKIP since it was formed out of the wreckage of the Referendum Party of which I was also a member.

The political system of this democracy is not democratic. The most significant change in our way of life has been our involvement with Europe but we have never had a referendum except for the original one about joining a common market. (I voted yes).

Because of our party political system the only thing politicians worry about is getting voted back into power. The country is broke because the last governments, of both persuasions, have bought votes in the run up to elections with stupid give aways like winter fuel payments to every pensioner - not just the ones who need it - a ten pound Christmas 'gift' for all pensioners - what can you get with ten quid but the cost to the country must be enormous. The council houses were all sold off but no provision was made for building new ones. Just about everything that the country owned was sold to avoid putting up taxes or spending less.

The lights will go out shortly due to total lack of long term planning - nothing is planned beyond four years because of the next election coming up. Rail and road communications are chaotic for a modern country.

Our schools are a shambles (the basic policy is changed every four years), the country pays out billions to immigrants who have only come here for the handouts they can't get in their own countries, the armed forces have had the heart dragged out of them, the town and city streets are awash with drunks who cost the police and NHS millions every weekend.

What does any government do about these things - talk a lot and worry about being voted out at the next election.

I will vote UKIP again - and if they can't sort it out then I will stop voting until the whole system is altered.

Trouble is the only ones who can do that are the party in power - so it is never going to happen.

 

A benevolent dictatorship is what is needed.

[AVB]

If cons/ukip join against labour/libdem the numbers would be very tight, depending on which poll you look at.

 

The last poll I saw was indicating an 80 seat Labour majority. So the cons/UKIP alliance would be useless unless they agree to it up front and don't fight each other in marginals.

 

I think a UKIP/Cons alliance would be very powerful. The business sense of the Tories with UKIP to keep them honest. Could be the beginnings of a glorious marriage.

[Reece]

They could but they wouldn't give you much energy.

 

Think about old water wheel driven mills, if they could have got more energy out of the water to drive more machines they probably would have done.

 

With modern design you might get 5* the energy out but it's not that much really, you'd maybe supply a street of houses

but you're not going to supply a small town.

 

The difference between renewables and a traditional coal/gas/nuclear fired power station is like the difference between a horse and a V8 petrol engine.

 

As that youtube link suggests, Thorium reactors might be our salvation.

 

 

Nial

 

So it is possible, but could only supply part of the energy supply? Still seems like a useful idea to help in certain areas. I never expected that it would solve the energy problem.

 

The last poll I saw was indicating an 80 seat Labour majority. So the cons/UKIP alliance would be useless unless they agree to it up front and don't fight each other in marginals.

 

I think a UKIP/Cons alliance would be very powerful. The business sense of the Tories with UKIP to keep them honest. Could be the beginnings of a glorious marriage.

 

UKIP should not do any pact with the Tories. The Tories are opposed to many things which UKIP supports. It isn't a good idea if you ask me.

 

 

The only reason UKIP only splits the Tory vote at the moment is the level of support. They have enough to be noticed and taken seriously, but not enough to get into power, and if there was an election tomorrow, UKIP would just split the Tory vote and Labour would get into power.

Their support is growing all the time and this shows no signs of stopping. Once their support level gets past a certain point, they will do a lot more than just split the Tory vote and UKIP will succeed.

That's why people need to ignore the "it's a wasted vote" lobby. It would only be a "wasted vote" if their support didn't grow enough, and dismissing UKIP as a "wasted vote" could stop their support growing, which would keep UKIP as a "wasted vote". I'm still going to vote UKIP regardless of whether it splits the Tory vote or not, I've said it several times that UKIP voters have nothing to lose but potentially a lot to gain.

[kdubya]

there are bucket loads going up every new development over a certain size is obligated to build some, many build far more than obliged as they know its money to fund the rest. My other half gives them away for a living and its surprising just how ungrateful the average tenant usually is. Its one of those rumours they have all been given away and not replaced

 

nope not all replaced some but not all! and most of those built are not local authority housing but rather housing association stock.

The relative size of the socially rented sector is around (18%) lower than in 1961 (25%).

The proportion of the dwelling stock that is socially rented expanded rapidly through the 1960s and 1970s,

peaking at 33% in 1981. Since then a sharp reduction in local authority house building and the sale of

council houses under the Right to Buy scheme have contributed to the sector's contraction. The

composition of the sector has changed significantly with a marked shift away from local authority

provided housing towards provision by housing associations.

[AVB]

So it is possible, but could only supply part of the energy supply? Still seems like a useful idea to help in certain areas. I never expected that it would solve the energy problem.

 

 

 

UKIP should not do any pact with the Tories. The Tories are opposed to many things which UKIP supports. It isn't a good idea if you ask me.

 

 

The only reason UKIP only splits the Tory vote at the moment is the level of support. They have enough to be noticed and taken seriously, but not enough to get into power, and if there was an election tomorrow, UKIP would just split the Tory vote and Labour would get into power.

Their support is growing all the time and this shows no signs of stopping. Once their support level gets past a certain point, they will do a lot more than just split the Tory vote and UKIP will succeed.

That's why people need to ignore the "it's a wasted vote" lobby. It would only be a "wasted vote" if their support didn't grow enough, and dismissing UKIP as a "wasted vote" could stop their support growing, which would keep UKIP as a "wasted vote". I'm still going to vote UKIP regardless of whether it splits the Tory vote or not, I've said it several times that UKIP voters have nothing to lose but potentially a lot to gain.

 

Sorry but I have to disagree with that. Nothing to lose? Libour getting in would be the biggest disaster in this countries history from which we would never recover. I am genuinely fearful of it.

[Grandalf]

If UKIP could get into a partnership with the devil's party I wouldn't care - As long as the price for the partnership was a national referendum on our continued membership of the EU with a simple yes/no answer.