Extra income for my shoot

[Mr pigeon]

Maybe go for 800 ex layers?

[WGD]

 

Or maybe 3-400 poults to get your team into the way of rearing. If you are shooting 7 days averaging 27 birds that is 189 birds for the season(I think!) which must be about 30% return? With poults I would expect nearer 40%, anything less is a poor season but we all have them, and with a following wind you might make 50% which would mean you were getting the same amount of shooting for less birds (based on 400) albeit it may be more expensive to achieve. If you are looking to grow your shoot, IMO poults are the way to go so getting to know the procedures and costs involved is useful with lower numbers.

Edited March 13, 2013 by WGD

[misser]

just an idea - 7 days shooting for £565 equates to approx £80 per day, if every gun could possibly get a shooting friend (better a friend hence known as safe and insured etc and will be more at ease as already know someone on shooting day), offer them a day for £80 if need be explain why you are doing it. On shoot day all the guns take it in turns to be a walking gun hence still same amount of standing guns - if not enough drives have 2 walking guns per drive - everyone still gets some driven shooting and if it all works well you gain £565 for the season and could line up several possible new members should any of the existing members depart - duck shooting also sounds feasible along the same lines - like i say just an idea - atb - regards

[scolopax]

Don't let the pigeon shooting or the rabbits or foxes or lamping, as that is an immoral act by chancers who have generally paid too much for a lease and and are desperately clutching at straws before bankruptcy and shoot closure.

 

If you have a reasonable number of deer it is acceptable to let the stalking.

 

As in the previous post add an extra gun to the shoot day

 

Reared ducks are cheap and easy and give excellent returns and are useful for padding out a days shooting and making up a bag, but beware, nothing is as down market as ducks done badly.

 

Personally I think it is immoral to sell wild duck flights on a regular basis, but that maybe just me being me.

 

The dog training days sound like a good idea.

 

 

BUT....at the end of the day game shooting is expensive, if you want more, dig deeper and pay more.

[al4x]

BUT....at the end of the day game shooting is expensive, if you want more, dig deeper and pay more.

 

this is the crucial bit, if you set your budget then work out how many birds you can put down for that and go from there. I'd be very wary letting days unless you are experienced and know you can come up with the goods. This is also worth considering from your syndicates perspective how will they feel about the best day of the year potentially being sold off. As WGD says look to improve your returns from less birds down is the cheapest option.

 

Dog training I'd also be careful of it would need to be watched closely to make sure any dogging in etc was in the right places and not upsetting your birds pushing them off your ground.

[misser]

BUT....at the end of the day game shooting is expensive, if you want more, dig deeper and pay more

 

agree with scolpax on this one - dont really like letting off shooting would rather pay a bit more and keep it in house but as stated above was just an idea for a couple of quid for a season - hope it goes well whatever you decide - atb - regards

[tiny tim]

i would put ducks down to bulk up the firstt few days ,we have a good return off them 75%......feed the ponds always and sell the odd night duck flighting to members

poults hold better than ex layers budget and put as many as you can afford

sell one day at £120 to £150 40 to 50 bird day with refreshments etc

bring the number of guns up to 10

at the end of the season have a few walked up days

 

if there is still a shortfall ask syndicate members for some more money

[scotslad]

I reckon it will cost around the £7-7.50 this year for poults and have budgeted for that then work back. In my head i reckom it would cost u around £5600 for ur 800 birds and feed for the year, roughly. If it's only a 2nd year in the pen u ight get away with no medication usually 4-5 years afore u start getting a lot off gapes

 

Like others have said once u sell a day the pressure is on and even the best team of understanding guns might not be happy if only 60 or 70 birds were put over them, like someone said u relly nedd 150+ shot's for a 50 bird day, if they've had more than that they can't really complain wether or not they've got 50. Also the standard off birds may have to be higher than a syndicate gun would shoot.

I think u might struggle to guarantee a 50 bird day on 800 birds released, althou u may have a shoot next door which is teaming with birds coming ur way?

 

Can u offer any local keepers to take a pen down for them and u keep the wire?

 

Try not to be in to much off a hurry to build numbers up, better to have fewer birds build new pen and learn where they wander from so u are prepared for when u have more birds

No easy way, i think all syndicates are trying to do the same

Edited March 13, 2013 by scotslad

[cocknee]

OK Call me mad, we would like to offer Pheasant shooting days to PW Members for £25.00 per day.

Most shooters have never had a day on a shoot; I have had many days beating on large estates but never been on a shoot.

The men involved all work hard & take shooting very seriously, and would like nothing better than to share a great day with some friends.

If you put the work in anything is possible, shooting should not be for the few who can afford it.....but it is.

Thats why I wished OP well, how often is this talked about on this forum.....not often enough!

I have been a part time keeper for about 35 years and run a small shoot I have also been on a few larger shoots shooting and beating and in my opinion for what its worth by far the more enjoyable are the small shoots where the beaters and guns all mix, it is not a them and us situation. so if you can offer a day for £25 to £50 for a bunch of like minded mates and they all have a few shots each and enjoy a day out in the countryside then I say good on you and I wish you were closer so I could join you.

[WGD]

Deleted, saw scotslads figure for poults and cacked my pants then read it includes feed. TGFT.

Edited March 13, 2013 by WGD

[CharlieT]

Deleted, saw scotslads figure for poults and cacked my pants then read it includes feed. TGFT.

 

I did exactly the same.

 

If I remember correctly the GWCT estimate that the birds to wood cost is £12.50.

[tiny tim]

you would easy get the required number of birds for a let day if you had it early and the ducks would bulk the numbers up

[Jono 4]

I have bought days from syndicates who sell an odd day to help defer costs, we have had mixed results, buying a 100 bird day and only shooting 53, but other days shooting 130, I have also bought days from commercial shoots, on balance I much prefer the non commercial days with syndicates, just a different type of day.

 

[scotslad]

Sorry folks i should have made that clearer, i expect it will cost us around the £7 mark possibly sneaking to 7.50 which i priced for, to buy and feed each poult for this season (and that's without scrimping) althou it will depend on the price ur paying for poults pellets and wheat

 

Not sure how u all get such good return on the duck's, a big commercial shoot was well well down on duck returns this and last due to the ammount of water lying about and feed in stubble fields. Not a big fan off shooting released duck, not always the most sporting of targets

 

U may be right tim but without knowing the ground i might not be so confident and depending on wot ur biggest day was the previous season. If u shot an 80 and a 70 day off 800 u would be doing really well but u only need another 10% or 80 birds for the rest off season ie 4x 20 bird days. Lot off varibles from when birds go to wood to shooting and not a lot of marign for error with 800 birds.

A neighbouring syndicate that a mate runs and has run it for 15 odd year think shot a couple off 60ish days but then down to 30-40 for rest off season and they put 1200 down and shot close to 40% shoot a few days mind

 

Only thing i can think off is go from 5 to 10 guns but they become walk 1 stand 1 apart from farmeers 2 and possibly make it slighlty cheaper say £400 but for 150 quid ur losing half a days shooting every day but possibly saving on beaters pay?

[simjakcal]

on our shoot we put on a summer bbq and set a few clay traps up,,,all our friends,family,farmer,farm neighbours,beaters etc come along,,,we all chuck a tenner in to cover costs and make a bit for the shoot,,and have a great day at the same time...

[Mr pigeon]

Well guys.

 

I thought I would update you from our meeting.

 

It has been proposed and to be confirmed next week, ( so please comment) that:

 

We will add an extra gun.

 

We will sell a 30 bird day. 2nd shoot day of our season.

 

We will put down 750 ex layers in August.

 

We will put down 30 duck.

 

We will have 2 half walking guns.

 

This gets our budget down to £500 each.

 

Thanks for opinions and ideas and please comment as we may of missed things.

 

Cheers.

[al4x]

The ex layers are why your returns are cack, they are the educated ones from this season that survived by learning to run out of drives and disappear next door for the day

[scotslad]

I am not a fan of ex-layers either, would not touch thm wih a barge pole, but some folk love them?

 

Can u get ex-layers in Aug? I would check with ur supplier. I thought the game farmers wanted rid off them as quick as poss to save feeding/housing them.

If u have to go back to ur orginal june release date, i dunno how much cheaper the ex-layers are but they will eat a fair ammount off wheat in that time (assuming ur still holding them). i doubt there will be an awul lot of difference in the price if u take that into consideration

[scolopax]

Forget ex layers, and especially forget about ex layers in August, you will struggle to find any then and I think if you did they would be in very poor condition by that time, personally I would go for 500 poults over 750 ex layers.

 

Up the ducks to a semi serious number, 100+. have you though about rearing them from day olds ? All you need is a shed, a heater, some netting and some grass, they are pretty much bullet proof compared to game chicks.

Edited March 14, 2013 by scolopax

[misser]

agree with above posts we have had better results with poults than ex layers - personally would put down more ducks as they are easy to maintain (especially with pond & river) and if done right can give good shooting - hope you dont mind me asking but thought the idea was to raise more cash for the shoot and not reduce subs?(from 565 to 500) surely if the subs were left at 565 some of the measures discussed would not have to happen - no disrespect but if you take another gun on youve got him all season and with possible sold days as well its all diluting your shooting (to save £65?) - whatever you decide on good luck - atb - regards

[Mr pigeon]

Hi folks.

 

The reason for the use of ex layers is that none of the syndicate have any knowledge of rearing poults. We are potentially taking delivery of them in late July early August and they cost £3:50 each. They are feed on conditioning pellet from once they have finished laying. I have asked the game farm the condition they will arrive in and he said "better than in June". I totally understand a better return could be achieved with poults. The cost of poults plus pellet vaccinations etc is higher at the end of the day.

 

The cost per gun was put at £500 because that's all some can afford and we would like to keep the same guns rather than have others just because they can afford it.

 

An extra gun does pretty much take up this slack anyhow.

 

We have decided on 50 duck because its the first time and so you guys say they are the easiest to rear and that number won't be the end if the world if it fails.

 

The farmer and his brother have agreed to add further game crops creating two/three new drives giving us 10 drives plus pond and river.

 

Hope that makes sense please comment.

 

Since you have been kind enough to read this far I have a couple more questions:

 

1. The river and pond are about 1000m apart at the closest point, could the ducks be flown from one to other?

 

2. Our idea of a 30 bird day, how much would people pay and could make it a higher total if they shoot more?

How does that work?

 

3.is it best to invite a whole group or individuals?

 

4. The farmers would like a cover crop expert out to sample soil and give ideas who do you lot use?

 

Thanks again we are all learning a lot with your help

Cheers

 

Mr pigeon.

[scotslad]

Couple of points, are on about rearing or releasing (ie rearing= gettin birds at day olds or releasing= getting poults 6+ weeks old) If rearing u will need sheds and the assoc stuff, like others have said ducks are a doddle, pheasants can be a nightmare.

 

If ur on about releasing the pheasants it's in simple terms really not much difference than releasing ur ex-layers,, dump a crate in the pen and watch and feed them, the difference tends to be that young pheasants want to hang with their mates so any that get out will/should hold round the wire and u can walk them in, in my limited experience with ex-layers they will bog off at every oppotunity. At £3.50 that is not far off poult money, i may be wrong but i thought they were generally about £1 cheaper and thats why u buy them. I would guess the extra feed ur adult birds will eat in aug and early sept would almost bring u evan with poults. Ex-layer will have as much chance off needing med's as poults will

 

Dunno wot u guesstimate it costs to buy and feed an ex-layer, but i reckon it will be £7ish for a poult, if ur paying 3.50 (were quoted £3.60 a poult) ur only saving the pellets price (about £1 per bird) bu if ur feeding pellets to the exlayers i really can't see any saving, adult/big poults can eat a lot off stuff throu the long days off aug/sept and wander a long way with all that daylight

 

Dunno how th work the quote thingy?

 

1 I'm looking forward to reading other answers to this, i'm not a big fan off released duck and interrested in how people get these big returns. Ivwould imagine the duck will naturally fly towards the river and a natural flightline will emerge where u place ur guns , but this could move with wind/weather. Often if u flush them off the river they will fly up or down stream rather than back to ur pond, will depend on a few things thou

 

2 and 3 I might not be the best placed to give advice as most days like that i go on are either shooting for dog handlers or walking up outside bits and the keeper just tells u where to go and u get wot u get; but lucky to always be on mates rates.

Look on guns on pegs for an idea, but generally a walked up bird on a commercial est will be £25upwards per bird +vat.+ tip Generally aloowed an overage off 10% either way and some shots will keep a count off shots fired at say 3 or 4 to 1 kill. Ie a 30 bird day @ 25 = £750 per team so possibly if they have between 90-120 shots but have only got 10 birds and end of day not really ur fault. Possibly sell as 30 but allow up to 35-40 and say to guns at start off day if birds permit would u like to shoot a 50 day give them a price

 

I'm guessing but probably better if u can get mates or a syndicate member to take it for his mates, then they know exactly wot to expect will know each other so the craic's good

 

I have beat on quite a few days like this where just a couple of boys with dogs and the keepers, great fun to beat as keepers are relaxed and dogs can go wild The 1 thing i would say is often (esp on bigger commercial shoots) don't take it seriously enough and don't have picker's up, generally left to gun's dogs or shoot agent with his dogs or beaters (but often don't give u long enough). On 1 paticular shoot the agent would spend all his time blethering (which to be fair is his job) and if u had time after a drive was not unusual to pick extra birds in areas he had already picked. There was a couple off occasions we were short off the bag but i'm pretty sure with pickers up he would have been bang on if not over. 1 or 2 birds is a big % on a 30 bird day

 

The other thing is if 2 of the more exp syndicate members are picking and watching drives u will know how many birds are down, only need to shoot 6 birds per drive on a 5 drive day, takes a good keeper to know when to pull out or let dogs in so they don't shoot too much on a drive but at the same time keep the shooting constant throu the day.

[pontbeck]

You`ill not get better advice than that above

 

Bill

[ColinF]

Hi folks.

 

The reason for the use of ex layers is that none of the syndicate have any knowledge of rearing poults. We are potentially taking delivery of them in late July early August and they cost £3:50 each. They are feed on conditioning pellet from once they have finished laying. I have asked the game farm the condition they will arrive in and he said "better than in June". I totally understand a better return could be achieved with poults. The cost of poults plus pellet vaccinations etc is higher at the end of the day.

 

The cost per gun was put at £500 because that's all some can afford and we would like to keep the same guns rather than have others just because they can afford it.

 

An extra gun does pretty much take up this slack anyhow.

 

We have decided on 50 duck because its the first time and so you guys say they are the easiest to rear and that number won't be the end if the world if it fails.

 

The farmer and his brother have agreed to add further game crops creating two/three new drives giving us 10 drives plus pond and river.

 

Hope that makes sense please comment.

 

Since you have been kind enough to read this far I have a couple more questions:

 

1. The river and pond are about 1000m apart at the closest point, could the ducks be flown from one to other?

 

2. Our idea of a 30 bird day, how much would people pay and could make it a higher total if they shoot more?

How does that work?

 

3.is it best to invite a whole group or individuals?

 

4. The farmers would like a cover crop expert out to sample soil and give ideas who do you lot use?

 

Thanks again we are all learning a lot with your help

Cheers

 

Mr pigeon.

 

As already mentioned above, poults are definitely the way forward. As Scotslad says, they are not that difficult to look after if you get them at 7/8 weeks old. How about buying some poults for one of your pens and putting ex layers in the other (but don't mix them)? That way you could learn a bit about releasing them, and see how them compare with the ex layers.

 

I don't know if you could flight the reared ducks from the river to the pond, but you might be able to feed wild ducks from the river to the pond for an evening flight?

 

When you sell your day, you need to agree the terms in advance with the buyers. Things like price, overages, elevenses, lunch, dinner etc etc should all be discussed to avoid embarrasment on the day. You should also agree what happens if the bag is not reached for whatever reason.

 

It would be easier to sell the whole day to a group or another syndicate, rather than a group of individuals, but there is nothing to stop you selling the day to individual guns.

 

Kings offer a basic soil testing service for about £15 per sample:

 

http://www.kingscrops.co.uk/index.php/crop-establishment/crop-protection

 

Most seed suppliers will do a site visit, but it would probably be quite expensive. Your farmer should have a good idea of what will grow in his soil, order a few covercrop brochures from Kings, David Bright Seeds, Oakbank etc as they contain lots of information about the various types of crops

[misser]

top advice from scotslad & pontbeck - atb - regards