CharlieT Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 You will get everyone recommending the caliber they own I'm afraid. However, I would suggest a .223 is the perfect caliber for your needs. I suspect that there are more .223's used for foxing than all the rest put together. Oh and by the way, I don't own one !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 You will get everyone recommending the calibre they own I'm afraid. However, I would suggest a .223 is the perfect calibre for your needs. I suspect that there are more .223's used for foxing than all the rest put together. Oh and by the way, I don't own one !! it's true, people will usually suggest the calibre that they know and use. Personally i believe that anyone who wants to go out foxing should be using a CF, yes the hmr will do the job but it's more of a rabbit crow / gun with the opportunist fox thrown in. .223 is ideal, I don't own one either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reegy Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 I agree the 223 is an awesome foxing round the guy who comes out with me has one,its the next riffle im getting very soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr pigeon Posted March 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 What make model are these .223? What round do they use? Also what is acceptable and humane range for foxes? Cheers What make model are these .223? What round do they use? Also what is acceptable and humane range for foxes? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 .223 is the calibre, and a very popular calibre at that, most manufacturers will make a rifle in .223. The .223 has a common bullet size of .224inch (as does .22-250, .220swift, .222, some .22hornet and a few other less popular calibres (some older .22hornet use a bullet size of .223inch, just to confuse us a little more)). Typically a .223 rifle will throw a 55grain bullet (thats the weight in an imperial measurement commonly used for bullets) at about 3300 feet per second muzzle velocity, where as the .17hmr will throw a 17 grain bullet at about 2550 fps, so you get an idea of a true foxing rounds potential and performance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alendil Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 i did go for .22 hornet.not as big or laud as .223 or .222 but much better than .17 hmr and you can pick box of 50 PPU rounds for 24 gbp. and if reloaded at home it can be as cheap as .17 hmr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr pigeon Posted March 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Does anyone know what is comfortable range for knocking over a fox with a . 223? What is the best load aswell? Finding this all abit confusing, cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmorrice96 Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Mr Pigeon, if you are applying for your FAC, you may want to consider doing what I did and apply for more than one caliber. my application was for a 243, .17 HMR and .22lr and I got them all on my first FAC. I then bought the .243 for deer and foxes followed by the 22 then .17 HMR. if you are granted a FAC with the .17 and the .243 you can buy one and get the other when you want (you get 5 years to do so). The .17 will shoot everything up to and including foxes and is much cheaper to shoot than the 243 however the 243 will handle foxes and deer if you so wish. the 243 is also a versatile and flat shooting round and you can use 55 grain bullets for foxes all the way up to 100 / 105 grain for deer. if the biggest thing you will be shooting is foxes, at least with the .17 you can use it on other quarry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snipers eye Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 i have shot dead many many foxes with my .22lr,i love to hunt/stalk them.so to speak,i always pit my wits against the fox,i always get within about 70 yards before the shot,i like to think i give them a sporting chance,if they can outwit me they live,if not they die,i think using those big calibre rifles gives foxes no chance,like shooting fish in a barrel,buts that's me, i could get a 223,243,ect,but then there is no stalking/hunting,just aim and shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Does anyone know what is comfortable range for knocking over a fox with a . 223? What is the best load aswell? Finding this all abit confusing, cheers! .223 is very flat out to about 240 ish yards, after that you need to know how much drop to account for. As for knocking over foxes, the bullet will retain more than enough energy to dispatch cleanly well past were the average shooter will lose the abillity to hit the target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 I was guided correctly or incorrectly that a first rifle and a fox rifle should be a .17. I'm totally open to other suggestions as to a first rifle for foxes. I'm aware that I can't get a 243 straight away although I think this would be the perfect rifle for foxes. Please all opinions are welcome. Calibres makes and models. Cheers Your best bet is to put in for a Hmr and a .223 then get whichever you want when granted. I'm a fan of the Hmr for occasional foxes when close and when near houses and the likes. Works perfectly well but the .223 if you can hit one you will kill it so to speak the power levels are vastly different. It's also perfectly acceptable for fox and they will think you are being responsible asking for a gun with enough clout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 Does anyone know what is comfortable range for knocking over a fox with a . 223? What is the best load aswell? Finding this all abit confusing, cheers! Ok firstly if anyone talks of drop they don't know the issues involved in taking long shots. The two main reasons for missing and wounding 200 yds and further are 1. Wind errors 2. shooter lacking basic shooting ability. Drop is easy peasy to dope its wind that takes practice, in fact you can read off drop by using a cheat sheet and range finder, can't do that with wind it always needs reading! A new c/f user is unlikely to be able to show the competency required at much more than 100 yds yet someone with a lot of experience wont view 300 yds as drastically far out. Most .22 cf varmint bullets from 40 -55 grns depending will do the job find what shoots best in yours. Placement will matter more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted March 27, 2013 Report Share Posted March 27, 2013 my God man the OP is obviously quite new to the idea of rifles and is after advice on a fox capable calibre, he's finding it confusing enough without including wind age and long range ****, my reference to drop was purely to highlight that bullets despite their initial speed don't travel in that straight a line as can be perceived by many. >>well past were the average shooter will lose the ability to hit the target<< was all he needed to know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadioles Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 Still don't understand what it's got to do with the police? What has quarry choice got to do with public safety, which should be the polices only concern? Oh dear, another case of mouth out of gear with brain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 Oh dear, another case of mouth out of gear with brain. Not sure I understand what you mean, I thought sitsinhedges made a very valid point and one I have often stated myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 28, 2013 Report Share Posted March 28, 2013 my God man the OP is obviously quite new to the idea of rifles and is after advice on a fox capable calibre, he's finding it confusing enough without including wind age and long range ****, my reference to drop was purely to highlight that bullets despite their initial speed don't travel in that straight a line as can be perceived by many. >>well past were the average shooter will lose the ability to hit the target<< was all he needed to know! If you find it confusing perhaps you might restrict your ranges a bit say 100yds ish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi1210 Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 I have used hmr to good effect being out once a week, on fox patrol. In 2011 we shot 72 foxes In 2012 we shot 48 foxes All within 50-180 yards. Mostly headshots. In the year 2013 we have shot 14 so far with the 243 and 222. Nothing wrong with the hmr at all if its accurate. Kills very clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 (edited) If you find it confusing perhaps you might restrict your ranges a bit say 100yds ish? ? the OP was finding the idea of calibres confusing (quote>>What make model are these .223? What round do they use? Also what is acceptable and humane range for foxes?<<) , you just confused it more for him Edited March 29, 2013 by Paul223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 29, 2013 Report Share Posted March 29, 2013 ? the OP was finding the idea of calibres confusing (quote>>What make model are these .223? What round do they use? Also what is acceptable and humane range for foxes?<<) , you just confused it more for him Or made it realistic one might also say! any .22 c/f will deal with foxes as well as 99% of users can deal with making the shot. HMR is not a proper foxing calibre, it might be employed as one under certain limited circumstances yet so might .22 lr or the best of the rim fires on fox .22 wmr all the rim fires are totally out classed by a common or garden .22 cf which is the correct tool My view still remains that "drop means very little" at longer ranges, wind and a shooters ability to assess and take / make the shot is far more important Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 Or made it realistic one might also say! any .22 c/f will deal with foxes as well as 99% of users can deal with making the shot. HMR is not a proper foxing calibre, it might be employed as one under certain limited circumstances yet so might .22 lr or the best of the rim fires on fox .22 wmr all the rim fires are totally out classed by a common or garden .22 cf which is the correct tool My view still remains that "drop means very little" at longer ranges, wind and a shooters ability to assess and take / make the shot is far more important Not sure how this thread has got here, but not much argument with that bit, drop is predictable and calculable, the rest takes some doing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 kent... yeah whatever .... this will be my last remark on the matter ........ the guy wants to know what an effective range would be, I've said 240 ish yards, I've done a fair bit with the .223 and for someone coming into foxing using that calibre I'd think that sort of distance should be achievable quite easy in all but the strongest of wind. As always plenty of practise on paper first (who doesn't when they buy a new gun). No one suggested shooting any further. I don't get why anyone would want to put up barriers for someone wanting to know what/why a .223 over .17hmr for foxing? especially confusion over distance given the abilities of the ,17rimfire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 Not sure how this thread has got here, but not much argument with that bit, drop is predictable and calculable, the rest takes some doing! Indeed, the op got some good advice on taking on a .223 for foxing (or any centre fire for that matter) wants to know a little more of what it can do and we get draw into debate over wind, which of course would kill the 17 the op was thinking of using........ now that really is the last comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 (edited) kent... yeah whatever .... this will be my last remark on the matter ........ the guy wants to know what an effective range would be, I've said 240 ish yards, I've done a fair bit with the .223 and for someone coming into foxing using that calibre I'd think that sort of distance should be achievable quite easy in all but the strongest of wind. As always plenty of practise on paper first (who doesn't when they buy a new gun). No one suggested shooting any further. I don't get why anyone would want to put up barriers for someone wanting to know what/why a .223 over .17hmr for foxing? especially confusion over distance given the abilities of the ,17rimfire Not particularly 5mph aint that strong but will create some issues at 240 yds ish at FV in terms of a clean shot, one should be aware of this before going and trying it out 5 mph fv 3 1/2" with 55 grn v-max max velocity at 240yds, the drop from a 200yds zero is less at about 2". I hope the reader gets my point 3 1/2" drift will take you well out the zone if not accounted for and result in a miss or wound very easy, even when you make the shot counts as wind is not constant. Edited March 30, 2013 by kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birx Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 .17 Hornet perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner269 Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Mr.Pigeon, I don't want to seem like I'm having a go at you, but PLEASE do some proper research before applying for an FAC. I am a Police Officer who has worked in Firearms Licencing during a spell of injury. You have to convince the feo that you are a responsible person to be allowed to use a firearm in the open. This includes knowledge of calibres, safe use of backstops etc. I would also add that in West Yorkshire, you would not be granted a .17hmr for use on Fox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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