To Shoot, or not to Shoot?

[Raist]

Hi All,

 

I'm pretty new to shotgun shooting and I have a few questions about when to pull the trigger and when to wait.

 

I have a Winchester SX3 and am using 30mm Size 6 with 30g loads and a 1/2 choke. I am using either a pop-up hide, or poles and cammo depending on the situation.

 

First outing: 25 shots, 2 crows. DOH!

 

Questions:

1. At what range would you all hold-fire with the above set-up?
2. Would you use another Choke size, and if so, which? (I have the usual: Full, 1/4, 1/3, 3/4)
3. For the ranges; 10m, 20m, 30m, 40m and 50m, given an average speed of 30mph, what would the lead be?
4. Aside from the pattern, what would be the closest decoy distance, and the furtherest?
5. Is an electronic Crow caller illigal to use in the UK? If so, why are they for sale?

Thanks in advance all,

Jamie

[TIGHTCHOKE]

 

 

Questions:

1. At what range would you all hold-fire with the above set-up?
2. Would you use another Choke size, and if so, which? (I have the usual: Full, 1/4, 1/3, 3/4)
3. For the ranges; 10m, 20m, 30m, 40m and 50m, given an average speed of 30mph, what would the lead be?
4. Aside from the pattern, what would be the closest decoy distance, and the furtherest?
5. Is an electronic Crow caller illigal to use in the UK? If so, why are they for sale?

These answers are subjective!

 

1. 40Yds.

2. 1/2 is OK, I would use FULL.

3. Impossible to just tell you, it's learned by practicing!

4. 20Yds and 35 Yds

5. Legal to attract birds for photography - ILLEGAL for shooting them!

 

Good luck

[TJ91]

35 yards max to start off.

Closest decoy 10yard, furthest be a marker for you max range so 35yard.

Half choke 30g 6s will kill crows, pigeons rabbits out to 35yards and beyond easy.

 

Maybe get youraelf a lesson with a tutor at a clay ground to get you into the swing of it

[Sx3 clay breaker]

Focus on the bird and nothing else is what I found because I was so used to shooting clays I would just guess the lead and get away with it but a pigeon can move in the time it takes to blink

 

 

Rgds scott

[stubby]

get yourself a PRIMOS crow caller, best thing since sliced bread

[varminter pb]

get yourself a PRIMOS crow caller, best thing since sliced bread

As per another thread, calling birds in for shooting is illegal.... Gues its down to one'e conscience

[Raist]

Hi All,

 

Many thanks for all your answers and helpful tips, I will certainly try them out on my next outing.

 

I think the issue was I was trying to shoot them at 50m ish as I am used to rifle shooting. I guess its time to bumb up the cam, and reign in the range...and not buy that jazzy new electronic caller...lol.

 

I have heard that many people spend quite a bit of time shooting paper and testing chokes at varying distances. Is this really needed?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Hi All,

 

Many thanks for all your answers and helpful tips, I will certainly try them out on my next outing.

 

I think the issue was I was trying to shoot them at 50m ish as I am used to rifle shooting. I guess its time to bumb up the cam, and reign in the range...and not buy that jazzy new electronic caller...lol.

 

I have heard that many people spend quite a bit of time shooting paper and testing chokes at varying distances. Is this really needed?

 

Not so sure about that!

 

 

 

Pattern testing will allow you to understand what the lead pellets are doing and what range you can expect to kill at!

Edited March 26, 2013 by TIGHTCHOKE

[postie]

when i first started on pigeons i would put a crow decoy out at 35yards just as a marker. carts your using are spot on,only other thing is keep that gun swinging even after pulling the trigger good luck raist. sometimes we worry about the little things and forget to enjoy

[Fatcatsplat]

As per another thread, calling birds in for shooting is illegal.... Gues its down to one'e conscience

Wrong! An electronic caller is illegal, but a wooden/plastic duck, goose or crow call that you blow is perfectly legal to use.

[pigeon controller]

If your not sure of you killing potential I use to put an empty cartridge box at the kill spot and shoot at it and check for holes. With one german cartridge I had shot all around and no kills, it was as if all the energy pushed the shot into a ring . Using Lyvale Pigeon Specials I had five hits out of the same gun and barrel. The way it was explained to me was the shot expands in to a 75mm ring a metre long , like a flying dustbin, if your bird is inside that you should hit it. I have a real mental block with crows for some reason I tend not to give them enough lead so i have to give lead and a bit more to hit them. It works for me . All the best in the future.

[fieldwanderer]

I've always been a rifle shooter and had a real hard time getting to grips with the shotgun, I tried clays but felt I wasn't going to learn anything when I was told "point at that bucket and when you hear the trap fire, pull the trigger and you'll hit it" among a whole list of these "tips" for the whole sporting setup.

 

I persevered out in the field and have never really done very well until last year when I read a book called "the art of good shooting" now, the technique it describes didn't really help much but it did help me to think about what I was doing wrong.

 

Have you ever noticed when you play cricket or rounders or similar; if you watch the ball and swing the "bat" you'll hit the ball - if you watch the bat, you won't hit the ball anywhere near as often. You're aware of the bat, subconsciously but you're watching the ball.

 

Same with the shotgun, point it at the bird but not really thinking about it and watch the bird (don't "aim", that side of things is subconscious). I'm still not great but this way of thinking has made a big difference.

 

The gyst of what's in the book is that if you point at something, you don't "aim" along your arm, you point straight at it without even thinking about it. Try it; point at the corner of the room where it meets the ceiling - now hold your arm in that position and move your head to look at where you were pointing.

 

The next step is to have your gun in your hands in a relaxed position at waist height, point it at the corner from where it is (imagine it has a light shining down the barrel) notice how, even without aiming or looking at the gun, you're naturally pointing it perfectly.

 

From there, keep the gun pointing at the corner and smoothly move it into your shoulder (careful not to lift the butt and tip the barrel down) all the time just watching the corner - it all seems a bit weird but you'll get it when you try it.

 

Once you can comfortably do the above, start imagining that the gun is a high pressure hose - water leaves the barrel in a straight line (in reality, it would curve because of gravity but we're pretending) you'd be keeping the jet of water on your corner up to now. Think of lead as catching the bird up with your hose and just after it's got a soaking, pull the trigger - you can do the whole thing without consciously aiming or trying to figure out how far ahead you need to be; the theory is, however fast the bird's going you've had to go faster than it to be able to "give it a soaking" and get past it before pulling the trigger and this naturally puts the correct amount of lead on for you - Though I've absolutely no idea how the physics of it all works!

 

 

Try not to get too hung up on chokes, my personal preference for decoying is a half choke but everyone has their own opinion. Crows are tough birds in my experience and if you're shooting further than about 25-30yds you'd maybe do well to get some cartridges with a minimum of 30g shot and move up to 5s or even 4s through your 3/4 or even full choke but again that's just my opinion.

 

Hope that helps

[stubby]

As per another thread, calling birds in for shooting is illegal.... Gues its down to one'e conscience

 

 

maybe you should check out what a PRIMOS caller is before engaging brain and typing

blown primos callers are not illegal, which is why I suggested it

[varminter pb]

 

 

maybe you should check out what a PRIMOS caller is before engaging brain and typing

blown primos callers are not illegal, which is why I suggested it

Had a look, drew a blank, presumably a kinda decoy?

[delburt0]

30/40yds fine about 3 yrs ago I started doing more with my rifle than shotgun , hence after 12 months I went pigeon shooting and yes shot 3 for about 45 laugh you may I was at my wits end I did not want the Micky taking out of me I'm a big boy and can take childish comments I needed help , 1 of the lads I work with has been a very good pigeon shooter for many yrs, he has never had a fac , 1st outing ,number 1 jumping up like my *** was on fire when one got within 40 yds, number 2 thinking about it too much giving them 5/8 yds at 40 yds out, too much ,,,, chill out relax shoot at the bird not 5 yds infrony of the direction its flying see how many fps your cartridge is going , thinking about the distance , and thinking how long the shots going to take together there if its 1300fps your shots going to go 30 yd in less than a second hope this helps, I'm now back to normal av 40 out of 50 on sporting and 80%+ on birds

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Had a look, drew a blank, presumably a kinda decoy?

 

 

Didn't look very hard!

[stubby]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Primos-Power-Crow-Turkey-Call-330-/350749204643?pt=UK_SportingGoods_Hunting_ShootingSports_ET&hash=item51aa4820a3

[Raist]

Wow! Thank you all very much for the great advice. I really am surprised at the level of support on this forum...it's a really nice change.

 

Now I'm itching to try out some of the techniques and tips, and use my instincts (thanks field wanderer).

 

I must admit, it has been bugging me, not hitting anything. Especially as I shoot for the army with the SA80 (not shotgun ha ha).

 

I will let everyone know how it went later this week (pending a leave pass from the wife).

 

Happy Easter all!

[Bluebarrels]

Wow! Thank you all very much for the great advice. I really am surprised at the level of support on this forum...it's a really nice change.

 

Now I'm itching to try out some of the techniques and tips, and use my instincts (thanks field wanderer).

 

I must admit, it has been bugging me, not hitting anything. Especially as I shoot for the army with the SA80 (not shotgun ha ha).

 

I will let everyone know how it went later this week (pending a leave pass from the wife).

 

Happy Easter all!

 

Army 100 ? BB

Edited March 28, 2013 by Bluebarrels

[motty]

I've always been a rifle shooter and had a real hard time getting to grips with the shotgun, I tried clays but felt I wasn't going to learn anything when I was told "point at that bucket and when you hear the trap fire, pull the trigger and you'll hit it" among a whole list of these "tips" for the whole sporting setup.

 

I persevered out in the field and have never really done very well until last year when I read a book called "the art of good shooting" now, the technique it describes didn't really help much but it did help me to think about what I was doing wrong.

 

Have you ever noticed when you play cricket or rounders or similar; if you watch the ball and swing the "bat" you'll hit the ball - if you watch the bat, you won't hit the ball anywhere near as often. You're aware of the bat, subconsciously but you're watching the ball.

 

Same with the shotgun, point it at the bird but not really thinking about it and watch the bird (don't "aim", that side of things is subconscious). I'm still not great but this way of thinking has made a big difference.

 

The gyst of what's in the book is that if you point at something, you don't "aim" along your arm, you point straight at it without even thinking about it. Try it; point at the corner of the room where it meets the ceiling - now hold your arm in that position and move your head to look at where you were pointing.

 

The next step is to have your gun in your hands in a relaxed position at waist height, point it at the corner from where it is (imagine it has a light shining down the barrel) notice how, even without aiming or looking at the gun, you're naturally pointing it perfectly.

 

From there, keep the gun pointing at the corner and smoothly move it into your shoulder (careful not to lift the butt and tip the barrel down) all the time just watching the corner - it all seems a bit weird but you'll get it when you try it.

 

Once you can comfortably do the above, start imagining that the gun is a high pressure hose - water leaves the barrel in a straight line (in reality, it would curve because of gravity but we're pretending) you'd be keeping the jet of water on your corner up to now. Think of lead as catching the bird up with your hose and just after it's got a soaking, pull the trigger - you can do the whole thing without consciously aiming or trying to figure out how far ahead you need to be; the theory is, however fast the bird's going you've had to go faster than it to be able to "give it a soaking" and get past it before pulling the trigger and this naturally puts the correct amount of lead on for you - Though I've absolutely no idea how the physics of it all works!

 

 

Try not to get too hung up on chokes, my personal preference for decoying is a half choke but everyone has their own opinion. Crows are tough birds in my experience and if you're shooting further than about 25-30yds you'd maybe do well to get some cartridges with a minimum of 30g shot and move up to 5s or even 4s through your 3/4 or even full choke but again that's just my opinion.

 

Hope that helps

I disagree with the last paragraph. An open choke at 40 yards with an ounce of 6 or 7 will be plenty for a crow. This needs to be thrown in the right place. Using more choke is fine but unnecessary and using 4 shot isn't necessarily going to help.

[BIFFYBOY]

hi m8

the gun you are using is fine im after one myself,the choke is fine and cartridge i prefare 32g 6's but the thing is with crows is that if you move before they get anywhere near you they will just turn sideways and go, i went out on beans last week set out my pigeon decoys at about 20 yards,fourtunatly the crows where coming right down the line at me i just kept my head down using one of the pigeon as a marker looking thru my hide untill they where more or less just above me then when you make your move it just to late for them to get out of range i ended up withh about 11 crows (dead) and a few that wouldn't drop for love nor money lol but if the crows (or pigeons ) turn before you think you need to shoot at them have a go its the only way you will learn and try to remember how much lead you have given to the crossers that come in

 

cheers BIFFYBOY