just a thought what would life been like is germany won?

[gazzthompson]

i did... fail!

[fabarm gamma boy]

Whilst I agree we invented the concentration camp in the Boer war, and did not treat those inmates as perhaps we should have done, there is a world of difference between the planned, industrial extermination camps that the Nazis ran and the type of camp in SA during the Boer war.

 

 

What I find hard to understand is how a man ( any man) can shoot a defenceless woman and child in cold blood like that, even taking into account that it was a war etc.

 

the germans were worse than the brittish for this! take this for example, the infamous babi yar massacre near kiev, where german security police. Murdered 33,771 jews, including women and children of all ages, within 2 days at the end of september 1941 led by the leader of the security police reinhard heydrich!

 

It doesnt bare thinking about

[Pastiebap]

There's a lot of talk about Germans here but let's not forget that Poles, Latvians, Estonians etc were more than happy to help get rid of the Jews. That's one thing I noticed about Auschwitz, the Polish involvement is glossed over and no mention made of how complicit many Poles were in the extemination of their Jews.

[fabarm gamma boy]

You must also consider that all but a small minority where sure of germany winning the war due to german proppaganda, not all of them were willing to stand by and do nothing! Groups of rebbles fled occupied towns and gathered in woodland areas( mainly the polish)

led by the beilski brothers, these three men helped save the lives of over 1200 men women and children! The beilski brothers came to raise up against the SS in 1941 after belorussia eich was part of poland was taken by the germans and the beilski family along with many other jews were inprisoned in the nowogrodek ghettos shortly after they were put in nowogrodek the german SS went to the ghettos and brutaly murdered those who remained, the bielski family were among the slaughtered leaving the surviving 3, Tuvia beilski, asael bielski, zus bielski. these three brothers went on to form a partisan group recruiting a jewish army in the perelaz and zabielovo forests, these groups of men and women defied the nazi's in there fight to survive and save there people!

 

In 1943 hitler launched an enormous manhunt consisting of 20,000 germans including the SS! A reward of 100,000 reichmarks was offered for information leading to tuvia bielski's capture! These brave men fought an for freedom and won when the odds were so against them!! That story always fills me with great respect for men like that, an era thats long gone!

 

So you see not every body laid down and let hitler destroy what he wanted

There's a lot of talk about Germans here but let's not forget that Poles, Latvians, Estonians etc were more than happy to help get rid of the Jews. That's one thing I noticed about Auschwitz, the Polish involvement is glossed over and no mention made of how complicit many Poles were in the extemination of their Jews.

[digger]

There were also French and Dutch people happy to take payment for handing in Jews. We may have coined the phrase concentration camps but the Nazis created extermination camps.

I visited Aushwitz and that evening was involved in an incident with a Polish skin head gang with swastikas on their boots. My Polish hosts were mortified I had seen both on the same day.

Fortunately the incident was resolved in a manner fitting their warped view ~ they saw me as a lone target and easy pickings before checking I was actually on my own.

[bruno22rf]

America was reluctant to enter the war for a variety of reasons (but I wont mention that they had drawn up plans to invade England themselves)-and while we point the finger of blame around Europe,were the jews not offered transportation to England but our government refused to entertain the idea?

[fabarm gamma boy]

America's involvement in the war was imminent japan had plans to attack america regardless before pearlharbour, so america realy never had a choice they were forced to join the war

[gazzthompson]

America may have come in late, but the lend-lease act sure helped.

[compo90]

those pictures of the german shooting the woman and her kid.......thing was what option would he have had?

 

failure to carry out orders and he and probably also his family would all be dead as well and another german soldier would have shot that woman anyway

 

i am sure that a lot didn't agree with what they were forced to do but didnt have any other options, I lived in a village up north where there was a road nicknamed "Jerry lane" as it led to the prisoner of war camp which had long since vanished............not all the germans had vanished, when i was small i recall an old man called Walter, he was a german (but spoke with a strong yorkshire accent) he had been forced into the army, forced to do things he didnt want to do, got captured in some battle and brought to england, where due to his farming background he was made to work on a farm...........end result he married the farmers daughter after the war and stayed here.........walter wasnt a bad man, he was forced to do bad things or he would have been shot himself

[bicykillgaz]

You must also consider that all but a small minority where sure of germany winning the war due to german proppaganda, not all of them were willing to stand by and do nothing! Groups of rebbles fled occupied towns and gathered in woodland areas( mainly the polish)

led by the beilski brothers, these three men helped save the lives of over 1200 men women and children! The beilski brothers came to raise up against the SS in 1941 after belorussia eich was part of poland was taken by the germans and the beilski family along with many other jews were inprisoned in the nowogrodek ghettos shortly after they were put in nowogrodek the german SS went to the ghettos and brutaly murdered those who remained, the bielski family were among the slaughtered leaving the surviving 3, Tuvia beilski, asael bielski, zus bielski. these three brothers went on to form a partisan group recruiting a jewish army in the perelaz and zabielovo forests, these groups of men and women defied the nazi's in there fight to survive and save there people!

 

In 1943 hitler launched an enormous manhunt consisting of 20,000 germans including the SS! A reward of 100,000 reichmarks was offered for information leading to tuvia bielski's capture! These brave men fought an for freedom and won when the odds were so against them!! That story always fills me with great respect for men like that, an era thats long gone!

 

So you see not every body laid down and let hitler destroy what he wanted

According to a polish lad at work the three brothers you mention are classed as criminals in Poland as they were in bed with the Russians, if they were all alive and returned they'd be arrested and thrown in prison. Not 100% what the crimes are but he certainly doesn't class them as hero's. made a good film though.

[Reece]

those pictures of the german shooting the woman and her kid.......thing was what option would he have had?

 

failure to carry out orders and he and probably also his family would all be dead as well and another german soldier would have shot that woman anyway

 

i am sure that a lot didn't agree with what they were forced to do but didnt have any other options, I lived in a village up north where there was a road nicknamed "Jerry lane" as it led to the prisoner of war camp which had long since vanished............not all the germans had vanished, when i was small i recall an old man called Walter, he was a german (but spoke with a strong yorkshire accent) he had been forced into the army, forced to do things he didnt want to do, got captured in some battle and brought to england, where due to his farming background he was made to work on a farm...........end result he married the farmers daughter after the war and stayed here.........walter wasnt a bad man, he was forced to do bad things or he would have been shot himself

 

A lot of them were supportive. Thanks to things like the Hitler Youth and state control of the media and education, which brainwashed a lot of people, a lot of the people doing the dirty work on the ground were supportive.

 

Of course, there were quite a few cases where people were genuinely forced to do things they disagreed with, such as your example.

[PWD]

Hard to know in reality...If you look at how Germany is now and even how we and the USA,Russia have all changed...you cant say for sure the Fascist regime would have survived for so long to present day and been able to suppress the whole of Europe either even in the short term...it would have had an influence but I am unsure if say the annihilation of the Jews would have carried on much past Germanys borders ...takes a lot to make a lot of people with such a strong will as the British toe the line without compromise

[matone]

+1 we are on our bums..mr powell was right

Yes he was and if he was here to see it ,he would derive no pleasure from being vindicated !

 

A much wronged gentleman who history will acquit.

[unapalomablanca]

People confuse nazis with hard right wingers or fascists. They were neither, they were just a bunch of criminals with a crazed bloodlust. They hated all and everybody unless you were a fellow nazi. Any early ideals they may have had for germany were long gone when they started the ghettoes and then the war. Remember the nazis were responsible for 50 million deaths worldwide, they bombed london for 60 odd consecutive nights and smiled and laughed when they knew they were killing babies in their little cots. If germany had have won, i bet many would have crossed over and become nazi, i mean what could you do if they threatened your family. The rest would be murdered after any usefulness was used up. I watched a documentary recently about the occupation of paris and how the nazis got information out of people, one person wouldnt reveal anything to them so the ******** summoned his children and burnt them in front of him. Evil and inhuman spring to mind, along with psychotic and cruel beyond belief.

 

The country wouldnt have been better if germany had won because the country would have ceased to exist along with the people.

Edited April 7, 2013 by unapalomablanca

[pimpkiller]

two phrases always pop into my head when it comes to the nasties-

 

- Following orders like a good German

 

- All thats necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing

 

 

[fabarm gamma boy]

According to a polish lad at work the three brothers you mention are classed as criminals in Poland as they were in bed with the Russians, if they were all alive and returned they'd be arrested and thrown in prison. Not 100% what the crimes are but he certainly doesn't class them as hero's. made a good film though.

 

read the book mate! They lived a long life after the war! Nobody was wanting to arest them! They fought the germans maybe your polish freind has something against belorussians as they wernt technically polish! And ofcourse they joined with the russians they were fighting the germans!