overandunder2012 Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 he should talk to mj's or oj's lawyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 (edited) There is a considerable amount of paranoia in the US concerning guns and some of the pro gun campaigners are doing their best to wind everybody up. One of the things I have been asked about, more than once as it happens, is about the massive crime wave they are told the UK is experiencing since handguns were banned. This is a popular belief over there because its what they get told regularly. They are under the impression that we are now defenceless and at the mercy of armed criminals. When I point out that crime in Britain is falling, including murder, they don't believe me. Britain is used over and over again as an example of what happens when the citizens don't have handguns but its not true the way they are telling it, its all propaganda. Edited April 24, 2013 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 I don't think there is much reasonable doubt. They were seen at the marathon carrying backpacks similar to the ones the bombs were in. They had a shootout with police killing one officer and had explosives he will be going down for murdering the officer if nothing else. Lets it put it like this he will need a good lawyer. It makes no difference, the conspiracy theories have already started Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmooney Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 What Americans think, write and do is their business. i am pretty sure they dont give a **** about PW. or the U.K. come to think of it. Not all Americans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmooney Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 There is a considerable amount of paranoia in the US concerning guns and some of the pro gun campaigners are doing their best to wind everybody up. One of the things I have been asked about, more than once as it happens, is about the massive crime wave they are told the UK is experiencing since handguns were banned. This is a popular belief over there because its what they get told regularly. They are under the impression that we are now defenceless and at the mercy of armed criminals. When I point out that crime in Britain is falling, including murder, they don't believe me. Britain is used over and over again as an example of what happens when the citizens don't have handguns but its not true the way they are telling it, its all propaganda. This is very true. Whenever someone suggests tighter gun laws all the nutters start screaming "THIS IS WHAT THEY DID IN ENGLAND!!! THEY CAN'T HAVE GUNS OVER THERE!!!" My usual response is "I have many friends in the UK and most of them have more guns than I do" which is totally true. This doesn't compute for them at all because the NRA told them that you lot are unarmed and abused subjects of some magical land ruled by Kings and Queens. The paranoia over here is outrageous by some groups and people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 They are under the impression that we are now defenceless and at the mercy of armed criminals. Faced with an armed criminal,is this not the case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Why should paladin or anyone else feel the need to prove what they have stated is true its up to the reader to decide if they believe what's wrote in a post,this isn't a court of law........its just a forum! I think if someone states what they claim to be fact, then they should be prepared to reference their comment to a news report, official statement, or something similar. Just repeating unfounded paranoid statements doesn't change them from being unfounded paranoid statements. Anything prefaced by " I have heard............" is usually best taken with a large pinch of salt IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe soapy Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Faced with an armed criminal,is this not the case? Not always, and often the victim and criminal change places when confronted by the police Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Just repeating unfounded paranoid statements doesn't change them from being unfounded paranoid statements. No but it does have the desired affect all the same, chuck enough muck at something and some of it will stick . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Not always, and often the victim and criminal change places when confronted by the police Agreed,not always,but the victim is mostly confronted by the Police AFTER the event,which is a bit late for the victim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 I think if someone states what they claim to be fact, then they should be prepared to reference their comment to a news report, official statement, or something similar. Just repeating unfounded paranoid statements doesn't change them from being unfounded paranoid statements. Anything prefaced by " I have heard............" is usually best taken with a large pinch of salt IMO. I totally agree. We had been celebrating St Georges day (Check the post date) and the last thing I wanted to do was backtrack all the sites that I had visited just to TRY (I have had problems posting pic's and links before. ) and to post a link to satisfy the original poster I considered would take up too much of my time if I was able to at all. Paladin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED BEARD Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 I think if someone states what they claim to be fact, then they should be prepared to reference their comment to a news report, official statement, or something similar. Just repeating unfounded paranoid statements doesn't change them from being unfounded paranoid statements. Anything prefaced by " I have heard............" is usually best taken with a large pinch of salt IMO. so does that mean that everyone is a suspected liar until they prove otherwise? i do find it a very cynical word we live in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted April 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 so does that mean that everyone is a suspected liar until they prove otherwise? No just when people post something as if its fact they should point out to the rest of forum members were they got the information. Then the forum members can make a informed decision on whether they agree or disagree with the content of the post. Otherwise whats the point if we all make it up as we go along. If i said i bought a £100,000 shotgun today some people might be sceptical and ask for something to back up my claim and rightly so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) I think if someone states what they claim to be fact, then they should be prepared to reference their comment to a news report, official statement, or something similar. Just repeating unfounded paranoid statements doesn't change them from being unfounded paranoid statements. Anything prefaced by " I have heard............" is usually best taken with a large pinch of salt IMO. so does that mean that everyone is a suspected liar until they prove otherwise? i do find it a very cynical word we live in. just cos ur paranoid dont mean their not out to get you boooooo Edited April 25, 2013 by overandunder2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED BEARD Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 No just when people post something as if its fact they should point out to the rest of forum members were they got the information. Then the forum members can make a informed decision on whether they agree or disagree with the content of the post. Otherwise whats the point if we all make it up as we go along. If i said i bought a £100,000 shotgun today some people might be sceptical and ask for something to back up my claim and rightly so. well if someone says they've bought £100,000 gun and you say prove it,its as good as calling them a liar in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 well if someone says they've bought £100,000 gun and you say prove it,its as good as calling them a liar in my book. its definitely not very polite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted April 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 well if someone says they've bought £100,000 gun and you say prove it,its as good as calling them a liar in my book. Ok you wouldn't challenge them. You would just think they were full of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED BEARD Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 Ok you wouldn't challenge them. You would just think they were full of it. why would i think they're full of it? i think your the type of person (and theres a good few more on the forum too) that thinks if someone has something or knows something that you don't,they must be lying about it.this is not fact,only my opinion so i can't direct you to a link to back up my claim.................sorry old bean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted April 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 why would i think they're full of it? i think your the type of person (and theres a good few more on the forum too) that thinks if someone has something or knows something that you don't,they must be lying about it.this. Maybe its just me i wouldn't post something unless i could back it up. I don't think people are necessarily lying just posting BS they read on the net and not being able to back it up. If you are happy to believe everything you read on this forum or don't care if someone is making it up as they go along that's up to you. PS I am away elephant shooting in my back garden i will let you know if i get one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 I’ve been a member of several American shooting sites and I don’t bother to post on any of them anymore because they are mostly inhabited by guys with their heads fixed firmly up their rear. It is almost impossible to hold a reasoned exchange of views without it plunging into a firefight over guns and gun ownership. They are just blind to what is out there and defiantly state, “ they’ll have to prise my gun from my cold lifeless hand”. It seems to me that they all think that the “ (Gubunment)” is going to come up to their house and physically take their weapons away leaving them defenceless. Although this did happen to a lot of guys in the New Orleans floods. There are several more discrete threats to gun use that they don’t even consider. It may well be that rules may be tightened to control ownership by a thousand cuts such as pricing shooters / clubs / dealers out of the market. Restricting ammunition and related components. This could be done by telling the manufacturers not to supply to the home market, or they wont be given military contracts and not given export licences for their products. If the companies won’t play ball then they can be lent upon in many ways to get them to comply. A gun is no use without the ammo. Two other factors come into play. When I was a kid it was not unusual to see men walking down the street with their gun and a few rabbits or for the men to be in the local pub for a few beers with the other men of the village, no one took a blind bit of notice at all about the guns propped up over in the corner. It is now, not socially acceptable to carry on in this way. Another factor is that kids of today are mostly totally uninterested in guns and going out on the land and as such there aren’t the youngsters coming through. I know that there are many on here whose kids go out shooting but as the whole population then it is a small amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotemaster Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 As I read through the posts I could almost feel the sarcasm in some and the intelligent wonder in others. Paladin in my opinion has it pretty right and I do happen to keep my finger on the pulse of what's going on. For the record I for one care about what's going on in the UK and Fortune is correct there are some rude dudes on US forums. The blokes here are true gentlemen by comparison and I mean that as a compliment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 My personal understanding of the “gun ownership / use situation in the States is one of self reliance and defence against “The bad guy and the rogue state”. The point that I was trying to get over is that when the state decides that the general public will not have guns ECT the state WILL come and take them. This may not be a direct situation of going to every property and removing said weapons but removal by a thousand cuts. On several sites I have read of places LIKE Wall mart that they no longer sell guns or ammo at some stores or how ammo is only available some time and when it comes in it is sold out quickly. And if there was a ban on the sale of primers or components when you are back top home made black powder and flints. As in all forums there is a wide span of intellect from the very sharp and clever to the opinionated clod that just sounds off. I have had some good friends that have been able to hold a good intelligent exchange of ideas from guys in the States as well as some that you just flush away with the residue of life. Still that’s much the same as here. PS. I have thought through the use here of weapons to protect my home and family and I have never been able to decide at what point I would issue a weapon and what would be the trigger point to open fire. How would I know that I was being put in a dangerous personal situation? I don’t intend to spend my lifetime stressing out about the myriad of situations that could be so. I am anonymous and no one knows how heavily tooled up I am. I have a neighbour who worries about every car that goes by his house and spends half his life watching his cctv monitor to see what is going on around him. I class him as a nutter / lunatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant hit rabbits 123 Posted April 27, 2013 Report Share Posted April 27, 2013 I come on here to have a break from writing essays, briefs and other Uni work, hoping to find an interesting thread about shooting or have a bit of a laugh and find you rabble arguing over citing sources as if you were in court! Calm down a notch! Just because someone posts something without adding a link to a certified source (or decides that they do not want to after another member demands they do while also refusing to have a look themselves) does not mean they are a liar or that they have no place in a discussion. In reference to the topic, I have a few friends in the US mostly around my age (typical student age) most of whom are gun owners and they are all pretty level headed individuals who are not mesmerised by the NRA, don't believe we're still disarmed subjects of the Queen and have a pretty sensible outlook on guns, government and life in general. It all depends who you speak to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyotemaster Posted April 27, 2013 Report Share Posted April 27, 2013 There is a considerable amount of paranoia in the US concerning guns and some of the pro gun campaigners are doing their best to wind everybody up. One of the things I have been asked about, more than once as it happens, is about the massive crime wave they are told the UK is experiencing since handguns were banned. This is a popular belief over there because its what they get told regularly. They are under the impression that we are now defenceless and at the mercy of armed criminals. When I point out that crime in Britain is falling, including murder, they don't believe me. Britain is used over and over again as an example of what happens when the citizens don't have handguns but its not true the way they are telling it, its all propaganda. Vince in all honesty and with respect to you I haven't seen many comparisons to the UK on the sites I occasionally frequent. In the news I have never read anything about the UK but I may have possibly have missed it if it were.You are correct on the paranoia thing as Obama is steadfast and says he will bypass congress if he has to in order to get his way. There is way more inciting going on in the other court-anti gun lobby as they bring up any and all firearms crimes in recent history in an effort to drum support. As you have seen there is a run on ammo and guns as people try to outguess what will happen next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throdgrain Posted April 27, 2013 Report Share Posted April 27, 2013 I'd sooner have American gun laws than our gun laws, thanks very much, and that includes the bit about self-defence. Coyotemaster thanks by the way for your polite and reasoned posts on this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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