Arming all are police yes or no?

[Pole Star]

well 2 armed officers fired 8 shots at 2 knife weilding murderers at 15 yds and they are expected to make a full recovery , do your maths at 4 shots per fully trained armed response officer at 15 yds only to wound , this does not seem a very professional percentage for a trained fao ,,, we can go on forever at the end of the day a young soldier has been murdered in his prime enough said rip x

I think you watch to many old Cow Boy films mate !!! It dose not work like ! the Irish Garda stopped a small van full or IRA bank robbers who were directly behind me in Enniscorthy Co Wexford years ago & an exchange of fire took place .

 

A member of the Gardi was just across the street from me with an Uzi 9mm & he hit the driver of this van 3 time once in the neck & twice in the head ! did he die ? No ! was he conscious ? Yes ! Did he scream ? Yes like bloody hell ! Did he live ? Yes !

& the following day when the Gardi came & spoke to me they said the shot provo was sat up in his hospital bed reading the papa ! .

I got some great photos of that but sadly some low life lump of "~/T stole them from me .

Edited May 26, 2013 by Pole Star

[scimitar]

maybe i`m missing the point here,becoming a police officer ,one has to understand the danger such a job carries.... sadly its more dangerous now than before..... firearms sadly are needed in an ever increasing violent society..... basically if the criminal has a big stick the cops need to go bigger again....officers should understand lethal force may come as pat of the job and should be trained to deal with it

Forcing them to carry guns could just result in some good officers leaving.

[delburt0]

I think you watch to many old Cow Boy films mate !!! It dose not work like ! the Irish Garda stopped a small van full or IRA bank robbers who were directly behind me in Enniscorthy Co Wexford years ago & an exchange of fire took place .A member of the Gardi was just across the street from me with an Uzi 9mm & he hit the driver of this van 3 time once in the neck & twice in the head ! did he die ? No ! was he conscious ? Yes ! Did he scream ? Yes like bloody hell ! Did he live ? Yes !& the following day when the Gardi came & spoke to me they said the shot provo was sat up in his hospital bed reading the papa ! .I got some great photos of that but sadly some low life lump of "~/T stole them from me .

did they get off there horses before they shot

[Pole Star]

did they get off there horses before they shot

No they were taking cover in shop door ways & one was taking cover buy a low a wall just behind my car ! .

 

Have a look & see if there are any John Wayne films on the tv sonny !

Edited May 26, 2013 by Pole Star

[CharlieT]

well 2 armed officers fired 8 shots at 2 knife weilding murderers at 15 yds and they are expected to make a full recovery , do your maths at 4 shots per fully trained armed response officer at 15 yds only to wound , this does not seem a very professional percentage for a trained fao ,,, we can go on forever at the end of the day a young soldier has been murdered in his prime enough said rip x

 

Well, it had to happen. A relatively sensible discussion turned into a comic strip by delboy0 (Oh sorry, delburt0), the super sniper!!

[welsh1]

 

[Vince Green]

In America the biggest cop killer is accidental shooting by another officer. we don't want to go down that road do we?

[ozzy518]

When I first started out as a copper I wore a smart tunic and had a bit of wood in my trouser pocket for defence.

Now I wear body armour and belt kit, telescopic baton, cuffs, leg restraints, pava spray, Taser.

That's how much things have changed . If the job announced tomorrow that we were all going to be given sidearms, my only worries would be where to fit the thing onto my belt and the extra weight I'd be lugging round.

Just about every countries police are armed don't see why we shouldn't be. It's just another tool to use. Thankfully cop shootings are rare, but knife attacks are on the up.

[Vince Green]

When I first started out as a copper I wore a smart tunic and had a bit of wood in my trouser pocket for defence.

Now I wear body armour and belt kit, telescopic baton, cuffs, leg restraints, pava spray, Taser.

That's how much things have changed . If the job announced tomorrow that we were all going to be given sidearms, my only worries would be where to fit the thing onto my belt and the extra weight I'd be lugging round.

Just about every countries police are armed don't see why we shouldn't be. It's just another tool to use. Thankfully cop shootings are rare, but knife attacks are on the up.

What about the argument that it makes you a target for people wanting to take your gun off you? Armed response ride round in twos, ordinary coppers don't.

[aris]

When I first started out as a copper I wore a smart tunic and had a bit of wood in my trouser pocket for defence.

Now I wear body armour and belt kit, telescopic baton, cuffs, leg restraints, pava spray, Taser.

That's how much things have changed . If the job announced tomorrow that we were all going to be given sidearms, my only worries would be where to fit the thing onto my belt and the extra weight I'd be lugging round.

Just about every countries police are armed don't see why we shouldn't be. It's just another tool to use. Thankfully cop shootings are rare, but knife attacks are on the up.

Surely if you wanted to be armed, you could apply to join the armed police?

Edited May 26, 2013 by aris

[scimitar]

When I first started out as a copper I wore a smart tunic and had a bit of wood in my trouser pocket for defence.

Now I wear body armour and belt kit, telescopic baton, cuffs, leg restraints, pava spray, Taser.

That's how much things have changed . If the job announced tomorrow that we were all going to be given sidearms, my only worries would be where to fit the thing onto my belt and the extra weight I'd be lugging round.

Just about every countries police are armed don't see why we shouldn't be. It's just another tool to use. Thankfully cop shootings are rare, but knife attacks are on the up.

Thanks for taking the time to contribute to the thread, its good to get the view of those who are at the sharp end of things.

[Scully]

In that situation anything he had managed to do would have been legal, ok he didn't manage to do anything but your side arm won't help if someone runs you over first. And as a back up to this did it help the French guy in Paris yesterday?

 

Very good points.as I don't watch the news nor read newspapers I don't know if the soldier in Woolwich was killed outright as a result of the impact from the vehicle or not, but if he was still alive following this the fact still remains that there was no one in the immediate vicinity who could have saved him due to the fact that the only people near him with weapons, were his assailants. The general public in his immediate vicinity, being law abiding, are prevented by law from legally carrying any means for self defence, and thereby unable to effectively come to his aid by meeting his attackers on an equal footing.. Edited May 26, 2013 by Scully

[Pastiebap]

well 2 armed officers fired 8 shots at 2 knife weilding murderers at 15 yds and they are expected to make a full recovery , do your maths at 4 shots per fully trained armed response officer at 15 yds only to wound , this does not seem a very professional percentage for a trained fao ,,, we can go on forever at the end of the day a young soldier has been murdered in his prime enough said rip x

 

As agents of the state armed officers are not permitted to shoot to kill or to purposely deprive life (as per ECHR Article 2), they are trained to shoot centre mass and once the target has stopped being a threat they must not shoot, each bullet that exits the barrel has to be justified.

 

Article 2 – Right to life

1. Everyone's right to life shall be protected by law. No one shall be deprived of his life intentionally save in the execution of a sentence of a court following his conviction of a crime for which this penalty is provided by law.

2. Deprivation of life shall not be regarded as inflicted in contravention of this article when it results from the use of force which is no more than absolutely necessary:

a. in defence of any person from unlawful violence; b. in order to effect a lawful arrest or to prevent the escape of a person lawfully detained; c. in action lawfully taken for the purpose of quelling a riot or insurrection.

[ordnance]

In America the biggest cop killer is accidental shooting by another officer. we don't want to go down that road do we?

 

Have you any stats for that or is it what you think. Tens of thousands have went trough the RUC and PSNI here over the years all armed I never heard of one officer accidentally shooting another. If what you said was true they would be shooting each other all the time.

What about the argument that it makes you a target for people wanting to take your gun off you? Armed response ride round in twos, ordinary coppers don't

 

Do police often patrol on their one on mainland UK.

Edited May 26, 2013 by ordnance

[Pastiebap]

Have you any stats for that or is it what you think. Tens of thousands have went trough the RUC and PSNI here over the years all armed I never heard of one officer accidentally shooting another. If what you said was true they would be shooting each other all the time.

I know of one shooting a cctv monitor by accident.

 

I know of one being shot by his jilted lover.

 

I know of an (ex)husband and (ex)wife who had an armed stand off in the street during a domestic.

 

We need to remember that police officers are people and are generally reflective of society as a whole.

[delburt0]

As agents of the state armed officers are not permitted to shoot to kill or to purposely deprive life (as per ECHR Article 2), they are trained to shoot centre mass and once the target has stopped being a threat they must not shoot, each bullet that exits the barrel has to be justified.

 

Article 2 Right to life

1. Everyone's right to life shall be protected by law. No one shall be deprived of his life intentionally save in the execution of a sentence of a court following his conviction of a crime for which this penalty is provided by law.

2. Deprivation of life shall not be regarded as inflicted in contravention of this article when it results from the use of force which is no more than absolutely necessary:

 

a. in defence of any person from unlawful violence;

 

b. in order to effect a lawful arrest or to prevent the escape of a person lawfully detained;

 

 

c. in action lawfully taken for the purpose of quelling a riot or insurrection.

so our government wants us to keep murderers alive , nurse them back to full health , then pay for them in jail Is it only me that would prefer this scum dead??? Edited May 26, 2013 by delburt0

[Pastiebap]

so our government wants us to keep murders alive , nurse them back to full health , then pay for them in jail Is it only me that would kill this scum

 

Thats exactly what the government has signed up for, and guess who votes for the government?

[delburt0]

Thats exactly what the government has signed up for, and guess who votes for the government?

not me ..maybe we should follow Australia's example .... Edited May 26, 2013 by delburt0

[Oli]

Rather than arm all the police with firearms why dont we have specialist drone units, that way there would be less chance of guns getting into the wrong hands. The drones could monitor a much greater area and then if trouble kicked off instead of firing hellfire missiles they could just be fitted with a smaller calibre rifle and shoot people that way?

[ordnance]

I know of one shooting a cctv monitor by accident.

 

I know of one being shot by his jilted lover.

 

I know of an (ex)husband and (ex)wife who had an armed stand off in the street during a domestic

 

He said police accidental shooting each other none of your examples are of that, its something I have heard before but have still to see evidence to back it up. The incidents you quote could just of easily have happened with civilians with legally held firearms. Should we take firearms of civilians to prevent such incidents.

Edited May 26, 2013 by ordnance

[Pastiebap]

He said police accidental shooting each other none of your examples are of that, its something I have heard before but have still to see evidence to back it up. The incidents you quote could just of easily have happened with civilians with legally held firearms. Should we take firearms of civilians to prevent such incidents.

 

I would say shooting a monitor whilst decocking is pretty accidental.

 

There is also the firearms instructor who accidentally shot himself in the **** whilst training.

 

not me ..maybe we should follow Australia's example ....

 

Not voting does not absolve you from responsibility, it makes you just as responsible.

[Pole Star]

Very good points.as I don't watch the news nor read newspapers I don't know if the soldier in Woolwich was killed outright as a result of the impact from the vehicle or not, but if he was still alive following this the fact still remains that there was no one in the immediate vicinity who could have saved him due to the fact that the only people near him with weapons, were his assailants. The general public in his immediate vicinity, being law abiding, are prevented by law from legally carrying any means for self defence, and thereby unable to effectively come to his aid by meeting his attackers on an equal footing..

And then the armed response unit turns up & in the heat of the moment has to determined who is attempting to kill whom & who is

attempting to save whom ?

Could be messy !.

[Pastiebap]

And then the armed response unit turns up & in the heat of the moment has to determined who is attempting to kill whom & who is

attempting to save whom ?

Could be messy !.

 

One of the things emphasised in our training is just this fact, armed police turn up and are confronted by you/me in civvies holding a firearm and somebody having been shot. There are two things to do, everything that the armed response officer tells you to without argument and to the letter, and identify who you are.

[ordnance]

In America the biggest cop killer is accidental shooting by another officer. we don't want to go down that road do we?

 

I will ask again is there any thing to back up that statement. Police deaths America 2013 these figures show that the above statement is BS. None of the deaths by gunfire were by one officer accidentally shooting another officer.

 

 

 

Line of Duty Deaths: 46

Aircraft accident: 1

Automobile accident: 10

Fire: 1

Gunfire: 17

Heart attack: 8

Motorcycle accident: 1

Stabbed: 1

Struck by vehicle: 2

Training accident: 2

Vehicle pursuit: 1

Vehicular assault:

 

Edited May 26, 2013 by ordnance

[Scully]

As Pastiebap has pointed out,I would imagine identifying where the threat is coming from would be included in armed response training.I can't for one moment imagine them departing from a vehicle and opening fire at random, can you?

Anyone firing at them or refusing to do as instructed is a fair indication of their intent I would think!