lead shot campaign

[Squinting shot]

Are the organisations going to buy me a new shotgun that will fire steel shot. I only shoot clays so find it a bit harsh on the majority of us responsible shooters That we have to suffer for the few that can't be bothered to follow the rules.

[Bazooka Joe]

That we have to suffer for the few that can't be bothered to follow the rules.

 

 

What rules were them.?

[subsonicnat]

OK, i will make it as simple as I can

 

There is no new group - its made up of those on LAG that were representing the shooting community,the gun trade , then land interests and game dealing interests who have written a separate report

 

BASC's support in this is very clearly stated in our press release - including process mapping and the evaluation of the evidence, the commissioning of an independent review and the provision of scientific modelling.

 

So there it is - I hope that's clear

There is no New Group.?

So where have the comments Quoted coming From, Your last Chairman has Stabbed the Shooting Community in the back, And all is rosy in the Garden.

The man is an embarresment to you, the same as us..

David, There is New thinking out here by lots of your members, and lack of Clarity on the part of your organization is making it out to be of no big deal.

I have news for BASC.

It Effects every Shooting man in this Country..

 

Rant over.

[motty]

Are the organisations going to buy me a new shotgun that will fire steel shot. I only shoot clays so find it a bit harsh on the majority of us responsible shooters That we have to suffer for the few that can't be bothered to follow the rules.

I think you are a tad confused.

[fenboy]

Are the organisations going to buy me a new shotgun that will fire steel shot. I only shoot clays so find it a bit harsh on the majority of us responsible shooters That we have to suffer for the few that can't be bothered to follow the rules.

 

I think you will find your current shotgun will fire any steel that is on the market for clays with no ill effect.

Edited August 19, 2015 by fenboy

[Savhmr]

I see that in one of this month's shooting magazines they've published a feature article on the "shambolic" Lead Shot Campaign!

[David BASC]

I can assure all that the lead issue and its impact on shooters is one that BASC is very much aware of and we have continued to make our position on lead shot and its continued use very clear on our web site and in our magazine. So why anyone should think for one moment that BASC is not being clear on the issue is beyond me

 

I can further assure everyone that if there is any news on the issue we will be sure to let members and other know through the usual channels - our web site, mag and email newsletters

 

David

[Desiato]

I can assure all that the lead issue and its impact on shooters is one that BASC is very much aware of and we have continued to make our position on lead shot and its continued use very clear on our web site and in our magazine. So why anyone should think for one moment that BASC is not being clear on the issue is beyond me

 

I can further assure everyone that if there is any news on the issue we will be sure to let members and other know through the usual channels - our web site, mag and email newsletters

 

David

David,

It is my understanding that the report submitted by the LAG has now been sent for Peer review ( whatever that means ), therefore at this juncture, there is probably little to be said .

However I do think it is time for the relevant organisations to up the anti in respect of educating there members on the true effects of a potential ban , we know that the shooting community can be very apathetic about these things and that combined with the " sod it who cares " element, may well wake up one morning and find it gone !

Shooters need to get a firm grasp on exactly how it will effect all areas of what we do , be it Game, Clays or Rifles.

Education can only really come via you guys , so perhaps look at how it can be stepped up !?

[wymberley]

David,

It is my understanding that the report submitted by the LAG has now been sent for Peer review ( whatever that means ), therefore at this juncture, there is probably little to be said .

However I do think it is time for the relevant organisations to up the anti in respect of educating there members on the true effects of a potential ban , we know that the shooting community can be very apathetic about these things and that combined with the " sod it who cares " element, may well wake up one morning and find it gone !

Shooters need to get a firm grasp on exactly how it will effect all areas of what we do , be it Game, Clays or Rifles.

Education can only really come via you guys , so perhaps look at how it can be stepped up !?

My thoughts exactly. Superb malapropism

[Desiato]

My thoughts exactly. Superb malapropism

I know bloody clever that

[wymberley]

I know bloody clever that

[David BASC]

Thanks,

 

We will do our very best to take the lead on this issue

 

We have already spent considerable time trying to educate on the non lead cartridge issues for those who must use or want to use alternative shotgun shells

 

Some work has been done on the larger liber rifle bullets and this has been discussed in some detail on another forum form memory and I have been reading reports on non lead 22rf from the USA.

 

BUT lets not get too far ahead of ourselves, the law has not changed and any updates on the issue will be on the BASC web site, and no doubt discussed on here is detail!

 

David

[wymberley]

Thanks,

 

We will do our very best to take the lead on this issue

 

We have already spent considerable time trying to educate on the non lead cartridge issues for those who must use or want to use alternative shotgun shells

 

Some work has been done on the larger liber rifle bullets and this has been discussed in some detail on another forum form memory and I have been reading reports on non lead 22rf from the USA.

 

BUT lets not get too far ahead of ourselves, the law has not changed and any updates on the issue will be on the BASC web site, and no doubt discussed on here is detail!

 

David

Is there any work being done on the education of non issues for lead cartridges?

[David BASC]

Sorry don't understand the question about ' the education of non issues for lead cartridges'

 

David

[wymberley]

Sorry don't understand the question about ' the education of non issues for lead cartridges'

 

David

Sorry, David. I utilised your "non lead" term for non toxic shot. What I was getting at is whereas BASC is educating the shooters who wish, or are obliged to use, non toxic shot about any issues relating to it, is there any work being done to educate non shooters about the over stated, exaggerated and very probably deceitful claims, ie "non issues", relating to lead shot.

As an example, I draw your attention to the eminently sensible Post #25 by Savhmr in the, 'Shooting is pouring lead into the soil' thread on this sub-forum and also in view of Post #27, the good point raised at #29 by The Engineer.

 

Incidentally, a sceptic would ask has someone twigged that NTS is not so NT after all and therefore "non lead" is the in vogue expression.

[pbutd]

There is little medical evidence of links between lead shot& lead poisoning in children (who are at the highest risk).There have been a couple of cases in Australia & South America of children being investigated for toxicity following behavioural changes(including hyperactivity),& after blood levels of lead had been shown to be very high they have been X-rayed & lead shot being found lodged in their appendix region;The Australian case was a child from a 'hunting' family that regularly ate shot ducks/geese & the initial conclusion was that he had ingested the lead from eating the shot waterfowl. The boy later revealed that he had eaten the shot (with his brother) as a 'game'.

Although there are thousands of deaths annually in children from lead poisoning (especially in the Asian subcontinent), lead shot does not feature in these cases;Lead fuel emissions, industrial lead dust (including lead paints) are inhaled in toxic quantities & lead water pipes & lead solders account for a lot of the ingested lead.

This article urging a ban on lead shot has very little scientific backing on the human side,circumstantial evidence is weak & there just has not been enough scientific research to evaluate any risk.However some valid work has been done on the waterfowl/raptor link with lead shot but the conclusions drawn by some people in positions of authority have again been based on circumstantial evidence.

There is little point in argueing that there are much worse sources of toxic substances in the environment, the point is to argue against the weaknesses in their article which seems to be based on speculation & mixed circumstantial evidence.

Unfortunately ,as the philosopher Thoreau once said..'some circumstantial evidence can be very compelling, as when you find a trout in the milk'.

If we sit on our ***** waiting to see what happens -it may just happen?

[DeepThought]

As of this morning the BBC is running this article:

 

Lead poisons '100,000 birds annually'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-34861602

 

Looks more than a little one sided to me, someone's definitely pushing an agenda. The argument against gets about half a paragraph and no mention whatsoever that there happens to be a 16,000+ signature petition in place.

Edited November 26, 2015 by DeepThought

[carlton1]

Done

[McSpredder]

Any foresters among the PW membership?

 

John Swift told the LAG that "there is no documented evidence of any problem with the use steel ammunition in forestry in the Nordic countries.....Experience from Scandinavian countries suggests however that it hasn't been a significant problem" (LAG minutes 25 Jun 2014)

 

He never mentioned the forestry production cycle. Scandinavian forests are relatively slow-growing, so most trees felled in recent years must have developed a thick bark layer long before steel shot came into use in the late 1990s. Shotgun pellets fired among mature trees would presumably be retained in the bark, and effects only seen during felling and harvesting operations. Not much danger where big tree harvesting machines are used in large forests, though perhaps risky for anybody using a chainsaw on isolated trees, hedgerows, or small "eco-friendly" plantations and shelterbelts.

 

Shooting for pest control is likely to be most important in young plantations, where the bark is thin, and steel pellets are more likely to become embedded in the heartwood. It is only several decades later, when the trees are felled, that any adverse effects of steel shot would be seen, possibly devaluing of the timber, damage to processing machinery, and health hazards for operators.

 

I don't claim any expertise in forestry, so can somebody please tell me if I have got things wrong? If my reasoning is correct, perhaps this should be pointed out to the Minister. By the way, did the LAG ever consult any foresters?

Edited November 29, 2015 by McSpredder

[Scully]

I used to work in the forestry industry in the early 1980's, producing timber for storage pallets for companies such as ICI and others. We once received a batch of felled timber by mistake, from woods which had been part of a training ground for the military during the second world war, which turned out to be peppered with shrapnel. Admittedly the shrapnel will probably have been significantly larger than steel shot, but the effect it had on our machinery and the risks associated with being in the vicinity when two inch saw teeth and steel came together were dramatic and scary in equal measure.

[Salopian]

http://www.parliamen...5f-eb64b87b5ee4

Look at 16.30 hrs onwards.

Nice to see John Swift taking an interest in proceedings, I wonder who was paying him and his costs?

Also noticed Christopher Graffius (BASC) seated not too far away!

[Salopian]

Members may be interested in reading this letter that I received from the BBC.

I note that there is no plan or effort to correct the misinformation !

 

Reference CAS-3612590-KXZR2Z

 

Thank you for contacting the BBC again with your complaint involving our reporting of the story on wetland birds and the threat that may be posed to them by discarded lead ammunition.

 

Firstly, we apologise for the delay in replying. We know our correspondents appreciate a quick response and are sorry you’ve had to wait on this occasion.

 

This story was based on a report of the Proceedings of the Oxford Lead Symposium which looked at the impact of lead ammunition on the environment and on human health. The proceedings of the symposium took place in December 2014 and were published in November 2015.

 

We also covered the story online:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-34861602

 

The article included the reaction from Christopher Graffius of the British Association for Shooting and Conservation as well as comments from a Danish hunter and conservationist.

 

Victoria Gill is BBC News science reporter/video journalist who has been appointed on her knowledge and ability to do the job required. We don't engage any presenter unless we believe they're competent and can meet the specific demands required of them.

 

BBC journalists are well aware of our commitment to impartial reporting. They are expected to put their own political views to one side when carrying out their work for the BBC.

 

They seek to provide the information which will enable viewers and listeners to make up their own minds; to show the political reality and provide the forum for debate, giving full opportunity for all viewpoints to be heard.

 

Senior editorial staff, the Executive Committee and the BBC Trust keep a close watch on programmes to ensure that standards of impartiality are maintained.

 

On a wider point, it is important to note that it is not always possible or practical to reflect all the different opinions on a subject within individual articles. Editors are charged to ensure that over a reasonable period they reflect the range of significant views, opinions and trends in their subject area.

 

That said, your views are important to us and we welcome feedback from our audience to help us review how our news is being reported.

 

Thanks again for contacting us and please accept our best wishes for 2016.

 

 

Kind regards

 

Ciaran Hanna

BBC Complaints

www.bbc.co.uk/complaints

[Scully]

At least you made the effort, and good on you for doing so.

[Browning725:)]

Done and passed along

[Salopian]

https://youtu.be/dWuZ5wTb5GY

 

I received this today in an email, it does make me wonder why one man has to lead a campaign to save Lead , when we have so many shooting organisations?