JonathanL Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) Jonathan I know what the word means, but seriously question whether you do. I have wasted enough of my life reading your "authoritative" posts. I don't know whether you are not very bright or just pompous - perhaps both. My last post on the subject. Feel free to respond in the knowledge that I won't, if it makes you feel more important. I knew I shouldn't have bothered providing that information (not that i needed to as most people can follow threads) because you'd just totally ignore it and cry off. Strange that as, coincidentally, it was exactly what you accused me of doing further up the thread. Funny that. Post 88 "Jonathan - you make great play of the fact that no-one appears to answer your "point". It should not surprise you as you duck out of threads when the going gets tough." Post 111 "I have observed the pattern of your postings and when you take a back seat." J. Edited July 1, 2013 by JonathanL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 Abit of a long video. Extremely ****ed up lifestyle. Extremely ****ed family too. Children don't know whats best for them, the parents are meant to, but in these cases don't! If these children were raised in normal respectable households. 3/4 of them would be far better off. 13 and being rented out all night by your mum for 50 quid worth of smack. Made to have sex with your mum and step dad. Just sickening. No wonder people are so ****ed up, if thats the kind of **** they are subject to as a child. Whats the solution to all this, the government throw money at it, with various aids, benefits and other schemes. They have to want to help themselves though. Its like a plague, their problems become other peoples problem, especially when they are using needles everywhere or smashing your car window for a satnav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyxologos Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) It really beggars belief how dismissive some people are when it comes to addiction, and how simplistic their views are. Please allow me to concentrate on a small portion of the problem, as I, unlike many here do not think it is such a straightforward issue to deal with. I would argue that it is of paramount importance, but please for a moment let us leave on the side the how, why and when the addiction to substances was initiated, and who facilitated this initiation. Addiction can be of a psychological, mental, physical and social type, to name just a few. Sometimes a combination of more than one of these. The more the levels/types a given object of addiction can incorporate, the stronger the tie formed between the person and the object of the addiction. In the case of Heroin, I believe -and this is purely my personal (OK, maybe professional too) opinion- all these different types of addiction conglomerate into a tiny amount of brown powder that someone injects in their vein. All Heroin addicts I know reach what I call 'the point of no return' where heroin is injected not to make them feel 'good' (IF this is what instigated their habit turn addiction) but to allow them to simply carry on living. Without their 'fix' they feel unimaginable physical pain, deep psychological torment and extreme mental instability. This is a fact, not the cretin remark some of the posters on this thread like to make in a Philistine attempt to show off how well behaved, patriotic or even heroic (given all the hardship they allegedly had to go through as children) they and their kids are. How many of you have someone, something that you think/know you cannot live without? How many here smoke and say it is too hard to give up? How many here have, after a heavy night of drinking said 'I shall never drink again, only to 'forget' their pledge and go on a binge not too long afterwards? How many here check their emails multiple times per day? How many here 'have' to have a collection of rifles/shotguns? How many here feel that if they lost shooting their life would be over? How many here are 'dedicated' gamblers? I doubt anyone who recognises themselves in the above would consider themselves addicted to it (although gambling is an addiction and of course alcohol can lead to addiction too). If you are having trouble/difficulty to stop a habit that is so easy to stop (smoking/drinking/hobby) then how hard do you think it is for someone who is hooked chemically, emotionally, socially etc? Multiply the feeling of losing any of the above a million times over and you might begin to understand how it might be for a heroin addict. Add to all this the physical, social and emotional as well as psychological dimension to the experience and you have quite a potent mix... Addiction is a compulsion, an unstoppable, ever consuming need to reach a goal that is ever moving away from you. Following the injection of Heroin the period of tranquillity is brief, and the quest for the next 'fix' begins again. More often than not death is a welcome change from all this. I will say it again: Addiction is compulsion. Compulsion is never enjoyable. Ask a nymphomaniac. I know that some wise *** here will try and make a joke about sex addiction, but this is how much your brain will allow you to understand from what I am trying to say. Addiction is pain, not pleasure. I have been working with addicts (in my early years I did deal with heroin addicts, lately I have a different focus) long enough to know that once in the claws of addiction you need something pretty dramatic and a lot of help to get out. Edited July 1, 2013 by Psyxologos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 My wife works in a professional capacity with the unfortunate offspring who have been the product of druggies, kids lives ruined from the start, untold costs to the public purse picking up the pieces, the courts, social services local communities all paying the price as well. The default position of trying to keep kids with feckless parents just ends up (in most cases) with the child being bounced around foster parents during formative years, and in the end most usually don't end up going back to the birth mother. The cycle I was referring to Henry is this cycle . I also work with people with addiction issues, whether they are the user, the carer for the user or a family member of a user. The cycle is poverty, in general the $$$ rockstars etc have the wherewithal to get out of the cycle however those who do not have the mental and financial capacity to kick it are consigned your sterilisation dustbin....nah, thats not right at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 pigeon watch at its best,,and how wrong was I in thinking henry d was a priest :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Strange how you preclude a priest/vicar/minister from working with people with addiction issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Psyxologos an interesting post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasus bridge Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 I also work with people with addiction issues, whether they are the user, the carer for the user or a family member of a user. The cycle is poverty, in general the $$$ rockstars etc have the wherewithal to get out of the cycle however those who do not have the mental and financial capacity to kick it are consigned your sterilisation dustbin....nah, thats not right at all. Henry, re-read my post. I didn't mention sterilisation, I suggested long lasting contraceptives, just the sort that lots of people use who make the concious decision to not have children until they are ready. Addicts churning ou children (regardless of reason for addiction) is not on, the real victims of this are these children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reeceknight Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 looking forward to this today! I woke up and though " lets see what the old druggy threads up to" hahah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Don't forget crack cocaine. The big evil in London. Agree with your post. Legalise and tax it all. Look at USA and the prohibition era - old Joe Kennedy was a bootlegger and he made enough money to go legit and shove his son in the Whitehouse. Demand for drugs will never wane. The suppliers take the risks because the rewards are great. The US has been waging a war on drugs and have tried to take that war to various areas of the world and without any notable success. Nothing has changed in my life time on the war on drugs - it's still being waged and the authorities aren't winning. Legalise, tax and control it through regulation. What's the worst that can happen and how different is that from where we are now? I accept that Heroin is in a special class of its own due to its addictive properties. Worst off legalise and tax everything else but not heroin - if you're shopping for your cheap government supplied recreational drugs and you can have anything apart from Heroin, well there's plenty else to choose over. Delivered by scooter. Anyone over 45 would be shocked at how many people regularly and recreationally take drugs. I'm merely mention that because it affects overall demand - it's not just junkies and down and outs. I would love to know the actual tonne for tonne consumption of cocaine by the City of London. I reckon it is f'enormous. Legalise it, tax it and control it. I'm not sure what else there is to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Those that are curious already have and will do. As mungler says, it's all very easy to acquire. you are probably right, i wouldnt touch it if it was free and legal, i wonder though if it could encourage others out of curiousity, there has to be some mileage in that possibility. I am 45. regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 The best on the subject. Take crime out of the mix, legalise and tax. Psyxologos an interesting post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unapalomablanca Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Those that are curious already have and will do. As mungler says, it's all very easy to acquire. so, you think that the fact that it is currently highly illegal, puts absolutely nobody off of touching heroin. I find that quite unbelievable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Illegality doesn't appear to stop people trying pills, trips, puff, Charlie and the like. so, you think that the fact that it is currently highly illegal, puts absolutely nobody off of touching heroin. I find that quite unbelievable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Anyone for a cuppa? It must be tea break by now. I've got hob nobs and rich tea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Chocolate covered Hob Nobs?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 (edited) so, you think that the fact that it is currently highly illegal, puts absolutely nobody off of touching heroin. I find that quite unbelievable. pretty much the case while walking my dogs iv seen the mums walking down to the school pushing prams with spliffs in their mouths, i dont think many people who use drugs care about the law as its rarely enforced at street level unless you commit another type of crime like burglary or shoplifting and they find it when they turn over your flat in a search then it may end up with a charge.. i hear if you get caught with cannabis on the street now you dont even go to court you go to the cash machine for an instant fine abit like dropping litter i guess Edited July 2, 2013 by overandunder2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 pretty much the case while walking my dogs iv seen the mums walking down to the school pushing prams with spliffs in their mouths, i dont think many people who use drugs care about the law as its rarely enforced at street level unless you commit another type of crime like burglary or shoplifting and they find it when they turn over your flat in a search then it may end up with a charge.. i hear if you get caught with cannabis on the street now you dont even go to court you go to the cash machine for an instant fine abit like dropping litter i guess the reason you see idiots walking down the street smoking spliffs is because the laws on the stuff have been changed,what a joke,yet they,ll go back home after dropping the kids off and put their feet up and enjoy the wonderful free life they are getting off the state, free rent ,free prescriptions,free pole tax/rates what a life they have, instead of going to work and showing their children that if you work hard you will reap the rewards, a guy I know has never done a days work in his life ,he is 45 overweight and thinks smoking pot is the norm and no matter what you tell him his answer is always WHY SHOULD I WORK WHEN I GET EVERYTHING PAID FOR, he worked it out and he would have been £30 a week better of if he worked,so the freebies need to be stopped the country is now a place where bums and others know they can just sit on their backsides and get everything paid for and what makes me laugh is they always find the money to buy the stuff they smoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpkiller Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 totally agree with uoerandunder and evo on this point and also psyxolog-whatever just legalising it and dishing it out wont solve any of the problems, i hate the fact that drug use has become normal and tolerated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reeceknight Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Anyone for a cuppa? It must be tea break by now. I've got hob nobs and rich tea. after the killa solid I just had I could kill a hobnob but my doll money isn't due till end of this month............il just go steal some from local off licence. Lol don't get me started on unemployment you lot! drugs is one thing I try ignore but UN ENPLOYMENT! iv got a prolapsed/ruptured disc in my spine that damaged all my ligaments and mainly my nerves so spend weeks at a time laying on the floor un able to stand, I just get rammed full of drugs (not the kind we are talking about) diazepam, tramadol, cocodamol and the like and my physio is 45 quid a week!!! My prescriptions are expensive, I get no sick leave so used holiday and when the odd bill bounce last month through lack of earning they came down like a ton of bricks on me.......... and when the doctor signed me to physio and prescription he looked at my shocked face about the price and said "yep and if you was unemployed or on the doll you would get all this for free" smiled and shook his head........ Don't get me started on that! rant over, il have to stop coming to this "off topic" section it's to much for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 Anyone for a cuppa? It must be tea break by now. I've got hob nobs and rich tea. go on then just this once Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 (edited) The drugs advisory council comprises of doctors, pharmacologists, professors, coppers (etc) and who advise the government on what government policy on drugs should be. The last time I checked the government routinely ignore the advise of specialist professionals in the field and on the drugs advisory council and just listen to the Daily Mail voters - don't get me wrong, listening to the voters is what a democracy is about but in circumstances where the war on drugs is not demonstrably being won I might be inclined to see what the experts have to make of the subject than Mr. & Mrs. Daily Mail-Outraged from Tunbridge Wells who in fairness have little or no knowledge or experience in the field. I am dreading the time when my 3 boys get exposed to drugs and drug use, and I know they will. As has been said on here, there is a lot more to the subject than meets the eye and I suspect much lies in the field of clinical addiction because there are plenty who have a go with all sorts and who dabbled in their teens and twenties and who haven't ended up wastral junkies. Edited July 2, 2013 by Mungler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 The drugs advisory council comprises of doctors, pharmacologists, professors, coppers (etc) and who advise the government on what government policy on drugs should be. The last time I checked the government routinely ignore the advise of specialist professionals in the field and on the drugs advisory council and just listen to the Daily Mail voters - don't get me wrong, listening to the voters is what a democracy is about but in circumstances where the war on drugs is not demonstrably being won I might be inclined to see what the experts have to make of the subject than Mr. & Mrs. Daily Mail-Outraged from Tunbridge Wells who in fairness have little or no knowledge or experience in the field. I am dreading the time when my 3 boys get exposed to drugs and drug use, and I know they will. As has been said on here, there is a lot more to the subject than meets the eye and I suspect much lies in the field of clinical addiction because there are plenty who have a go with all sorts and who dabbled in their teens and twenties and who haven't ended up wastral junkies. i have to say this is sort of how i remember it wasn't there a doctor/advisor that got fired for disagreeing with government policy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRNDL Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 I wonder if this will surpass my red diesel thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedsanity Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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