M.A.Gnun Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 hi , the last time i spoke to my f.a.o i asked what it would take to get a deer rated calbier rifle , he said i would need to go on a deer stalker course and learn about the butchery of the animal to check its vital organs etc to check disease . my argument is this , i live just down the road from a massive meat traders and am surrounded by farm shops that sell this and other game etc , they would take the animal off me in a heart beat either i could sell itto them or i could pay them to do the butchery for me . i have an "OPEN TICKET" so i canshoot anywhere i have the landowners permission and i have many ! i have a 8 shot section 1 shotgun and .223 .22 .17hmr. some say you are allowed to shoot montjack with a .223 but my fao says they are deer so no no ! i obviously understand backdrops and know wherther its safe to take a shot and know where its going to stop if i miss . im going to variate again soon and ask for these calibers for said reasons , does anyone have any knowledge of this subject and any advice on how i should tackle this quandry ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 Your FEO can't tell you you can't shoot muntjac with a .223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 he can if he won't give you a deer condition to cover shooting them. Quickest solution is to do your DSC1 and its a good course and you will learn a lot, alternatives might be mentoring but it seems BASC and ACPO are trying to do away with that in favour of training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camokid Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 taken from the basc web page For Muntjac and Chinese Water deer only- a rifle with a minimum calibre of not less than .220 inches and muzzle energy of not less than 1000 foot pounds and a bullet weight of not less than 50 grains may be used. For all deer of any species - a minimum calibre of .240 and minimum muzzle energy of 1,700 foot pounds is the legal requirement. your feo is wrong!!! as al says they have control over your ticket they can and will put condition on if they like but you have the right to fight it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 I read the original post the same way as you CK What I think his FEO is saying he can't use his .223 to shoot muntjac until he has been given the deer condition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 Your FLO sounds like he's a YTS you dont need a DSC. to shoot Deer, all though what you do after you shoot it,assuming you shoot it when you cant get to the abatoir, say for instance a Sunday. Then you could possibly be wasting a carcuss due to your inexperience in preperation. Or just put in for a 30.06 and be done with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stokie Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 Shoot me down if I'm wrong but I thought you couldn't sell deer into the food chain if you have no dsc qualification because of food hygiene As for munty and CWD your feo doesn't know what he's talking about . They are there to guide you to follow the law . They are not there to make it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camokid Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 oh right i had this years ago all tho you can legally use a 223 (220 or above) to shoot muntys you need to have it as a condition in righting on your ticket if you have deer on your land and permission to take them i cant see an issue and see a good reason for a bigger cal you don't need to go on a coarse but researching the deer never harms look on the bds its full of info.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 Shoot me down if I'm wrong but I thought you couldn't sell deer into the food chain if you have no dsc qualification because of food hygiene As for munty and CWD your feo doesn't know what he's talking about . They are there to guide you to follow the law . They are not there to make it up It's the large game meat hygene which is a part of the course however I believe you can sell to certain establishments as long as the pluck goes with them so it can be inspected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Pelt Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 he can if he won't give you a deer condition to cover shooting them. Quickest solution is to do your DSC1 and its a good course and you will learn a lot, alternatives might be mentoring but it seems BASC and ACPO are trying to do away with that in favour of training. There is (still) no legal requirement to take the DSC1. Asking nicely for AOLQ to be applied to his ticket will legally allow the OP to shoot Muntjac with his .223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 while legally there is no actual requirement they have the remit to ask for experience as an alternative to training. If you have no experience then they have the right to ask for training or refuse, I have a feeling the going for AOLQ rather than deer condition is going to come back to bite the powers that be as that to my mind wasn't their intention to help people avoid training for deer having made such a fuss over it in recent years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 I asked for deer to be put on my ticket for my .222 it came back with cwd, muntjac, and AOLQ and opened it up too thanks beds&herts feo Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Pelt Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 Colin's right, My experience is that they (the FEO) will be looking for experience in rifle shooting, which having an open ticket the OP has in spades, rather than specifically experience in shooting deer, which the DSC1 provides little in the way of ; it is a course about deer not about shooting. With Muntjac related RTAs still increasing the police are all in favour of their control ; calling for a CAD number the other week to shoot adjacent to an industrial site the young cop I spoke to in the control room said, "Oh, you're going to keep some of those Muntjac off our roads, enjoy your evening !" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 It's the large game meat hygene which is a part of the course however I believe you can sell to certain establishments as long as the pluck goes with them so it can be inspected Never been asked for DSC or pluck when selling and I don`t know how many `ooo`s of deer I have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 (edited) It'll come Henry they are meant to either inspect or have your number down as a person fit to inspect thats by law I believe. http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/wildgameguide0611.pdf Edited August 13, 2013 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Pelt Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 Apologies to the OP for steering a bit off-topic but anyone new to shooting (or those selling road-kill to pubs) reading this and weighing up the options might consider the Wild Game Meat Hygiene course : http://www.lantra-awards.co.uk/Products/Level-2-Award-in-Wild-Game-Meat-Hygiene.aspx Not as an alternative to DSC1, but just as an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 While not wanting to dicourage anyone from doing a course, wether dsc1 or wild game handling etc. It really is totally outwith the poilce's remit, wot possibly difference does it make to public safety wether or not u know how to butcher a deer. If ur safe enough to have a 22cf and rimfires probably shooting more rounds than u will ever shoot at deer and possibly also at nite it's potentially far more dangerous than wot u shoot with a larger calibre in daylight, jst the usual nonsense from FL depts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.A.Gnun Posted August 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 While not wanting to dicourage anyone from doing a course, wether dsc1 or wild game handling etc. It really is totally outwith the poilce's remit, wot possibly difference does it make to public safety wether or not u know how to butcher a deer. If ur safe enough to have a 22cf and rimfires probably shooting more rounds than u will ever shoot at deer and possibly also at nite it's potentially far more dangerous than wot u shoot with a larger calibre in daylight, jst the usual nonsense from FL depts thats exactly what i wanted to say but wanted to see if anyone else thought the same !! your spot on my friend im not interested in becoming a butcher and if the animal was/is sick then its probably best to dispatch it as to not effect the heard right ? i shot dozens of rabbits and pigeons and eat both and they are classed as vermin but no such law applies there , anyway where does it say you cant use a larger caliber than .223 to shoot foxes and AOLQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 14, 2013 Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 there is nothing to say you can't use large calibers on smaller species once you have AOLQ but they are not going to start giving them out like smarties just so people can shoot deer without experience. So you won't get a 308 with AOLQ if you try and justify it for foxes, and if they want training or experience before they will add deer then thats that. BASC will discuss it so far but they can't force them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.A.Gnun Posted August 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 There is (still) no legal requirement to take the DSC1. Asking nicely for AOLQ to be applied to his ticket will legally allow the OP to shoot Muntjac with his .223 hi i do have AOLQ but my fao says they are deer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Pelt Posted August 14, 2013 Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 hi i do have AOLQ but my fao says they are deer Hello mate, by it's very definition "all other legal quarry" will cover you for shooting Muntjac with a deer legal round with your .223 regardless what your FEO thinks. Camokid posted the legal bit that covers it above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted August 14, 2013 Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 If you have AOLQ and a .223 go and shoot your munties with an appropriate round - Say nothing and if pulled up there is nothing they can do as you have your conditions right there in writing to say that you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 15, 2013 Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 thats exactly what i wanted to say but wanted to see if anyone else thought the same !! your spot on my friend im not interested in becoming a butcher and if the animal was/is sick then its probably best to dispatch it as to not effect the heard right ? Interestingly this shows exactly why the DSC is of use as the post shows you don't really know the first thing about Deer if you are worried about a sick Muntjac infecting the herd. Fundamentally you can shoot a sick one anyway with whatever you have as there is an exception in the deer act to use pretty much whatever is at hand as long as it is humane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Pelt Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) If you have AOLQ and a .223 go and shoot your munties with an appropriate round - Say nothing and if pulled up there is nothing they can do as you have your conditions right there in writing to say that you can. And look here : http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php/69213-AOLQ-Its-official Edited August 16, 2013 by Full Pelt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 It's still only ACPO recommending it rather than actually going to happen. Individual departments still have the ability to make it up as they go along Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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