STEEL SHOT-What you need to know

[David BASC]

STEEL SHOT

What you need to know from a safety point of view.

 

There are two types of steel shot cartridges: Standard Steel and High Performance Steel.

 

Standard Steel cartridges can be fired through any gun proved to the standard level (ie most “Nitro” proved guns, proved to at least 930 bar) and through any choke.

 

High Performance Steel cartridges should always be marked as such on the box and should only be fired through guns that have passed Steel Shot proof. These guns should be proved to at least 1320 bar, be stamped with "Steel Shot" and a have a Fleur de Lys proof mark to prove it).

 

Most High Performance steel can be fired through any choke, but it is recommended not to use choke greater than a half for shot larger than BB (4.1mm).

 

As a result of its hardness and the typical plastic wad, steel does have the potential to cause some choke expansion ("bulging") particularly in older, traditional lightweight guns.

 

"Steel" shot is really soft iron. Its density is about 7.8g/cc (compared with around 11g/cc for lead shot) and it is much harder than lead - consequently it needs to be contained in a robust wad (usually plastic) to protect barrel walls from scratching or

wear.

 

Standard Steel shot cannot be larger than 3.25mm i.e. English no.3, but can be used through any choke. There is no limit on shot size in High Performance Steel cartridges but if it is greater than 4.0mm (i.e. English BB or larger) then choke less than half should be used.

 

Note that if any of the limits for Standard Steel are exceeded then that cartridge becomes High Performance and should be fired only through a steel shot proved gun. Note also that the limits on pressure, velocity and momentum for High Performance Steel should not be exceeded.

 

For traditional lightweight game guns, CIP recommends choke generally no greater than half while the British Proof Authorities recommend no more than quarter choke.

 

Steel shot prooved guns can either be bought already proved or be submitted for reproving for steel shot. Guns not designed for High Performance Steel cartridges will not normally be accepted for the steel shot proof.

 

High Performance Steel cartridges (and boxes) should be clearly marked. If not, check. It may be possible broadly to decide which type it is if the muzzle velocity is printed on the box with the load weight –

 

Do not use steel shot in any Damascus or twist-barrelled guns. Note that not complying with these rules risks damage to shotguns. Guns don’t "blow up". Scratched barrels are normally prevented by robust wads but guns can suffer choke expansion ("bulging"). This is usually barely visible and does not affect performance or safety, but may prevent the gun being accepted for reproving at a later date, and could affect its value.

 

More information on the BASC web site.

[shootgun]

Thanks, very helpfull

[neillfrbs]

Thanks, very helpfull

+1

[Guest cookoff013]

STEEL SHOT

What you need to know from a safety point of view.

 

There are two types of steel shot cartridges: Standard Steel and High Performance Steel.

 

Standard Steel cartridges can be fired through any gun proved to the standard level (ie most “Nitro” proved guns, proved to at least 930 bar) and through any choke.

 

High Performance Steel cartridges should always be marked as such on the box and should only be fired through guns that have passed Steel Shot proof. These guns should be proved to at least 1320 bar, be stamped with "Steel Shot" and a have a Fleur de Lys proof mark to prove it).

 

Most High Performance steel can be fired through any choke, but it is recommended not to use choke greater than a half for shot larger than BB (4.1mm).

 

As a result of its hardness and the typical plastic wad, steel does have the potential to cause some choke expansion ("bulging") particularly in older, traditional lightweight guns.

 

"Steel" shot is really soft iron. Its density is about 7.8g/cc (compared with around 11g/cc for lead shot) and it is much harder than lead - consequently it needs to be contained in a robust wad (usually plastic) to protect barrel walls from scratching or

wear.

 

Standard Steel shot cannot be larger than 3.25mm i.e. English no.3, but can be used through any choke. There is no limit on shot size in High Performance Steel cartridges but if it is greater than 4.0mm (i.e. English BB or larger) then choke less than half should be used.

 

Note that if any of the limits for Standard Steel are exceeded then that cartridge becomes High Performance and should be fired only through a steel shot proved gun. Note also that the limits on pressure, velocity and momentum for High Performance Steel should not be exceeded.

 

For traditional lightweight game guns, CIP recommends choke generally no greater than half while the British Proof Authorities recommend no more than quarter choke.

 

Steel shot prooved guns can either be bought already proved or be submitted for reproving for steel shot. Guns not designed for High Performance Steel cartridges will not normally be accepted for the steel shot proof.

 

High Performance Steel cartridges (and boxes) should be clearly marked. If not, check. It may be possible broadly to decide which type it is if the muzzle velocity is printed on the box with the load weight –

 

Do not use steel shot in any Damascus or twist-barrelled guns. Note that not complying with these rules risks damage to shotguns. Guns don’t "blow up". Scratched barrels are normally prevented by robust wads but guns can suffer choke expansion ("bulging"). This is usually barely visible and does not affect performance or safety, but may prevent the gun being accepted for reproving at a later date, and could affect its value.

 

More information on the BASC web site.

 

+1

i`ve also highlighted an important point.

[WelshAndy]

Very interesting thanks for sharing Maybe a good idea to have this pinned at the top.

[RossEM]

Thanks to both DavidBASC and Cranfield. I suggested/requested this Topic to them after answering multiple questions along the lines of "...what steel cartridge..."

 

Hopefully nobody will now be left in any doubt with what loads are safe to use in their guns.

[Sprinter]

how do you determine via muzzle velocity which is hp and which std looking at justcartridges non toxic lists?

 

ie I am looking at the game and wet steel in two flavours 70mm and 76mm

[David BASC]

Standard is 65-70mm , max pressure 740 bar, max velocity 1395 fps

 

High performance is 70-89mm , max pressure 1050 bar, max velocity 1410 fps

[wymberley]

Getting confused now.

First of all it was soft iron; then steel and now it's soft iron again.

[RossEM]

how do you determine via muzzle velocity which is hp and which std looking at justcartridges non toxic lists?

 

ie I am looking at the game and wet steel in two flavours 70mm and 76mm

 

I would check the manufacturer's website

[drone]

I read this with some interest, coming back into the game after a 20 year break.

All my guns are old, the oldest being nearly 110 years of age, its an old scott 10 gauge which I used to use in Scotland and will still be ok there with the ww 21/4 oz of lead for my son to use.

In my other guns, a 30 odd year old winchester mod 23 sbs and a 1957 Darne V19 both bored imp cyl in each barrel, I've been using lyavale express 32 gms no4 supreme steel. Last season and this I've used 19 cartridges and have yet to hit anything with the stuff, mostly pigeons which I usually get with the second barrel loaded with 1 1/16 oz of no 6 lead hi vel.

This afternoon I went on one of my permissions and fired at a coke can with the steel load at a measured 40 metres, the can was literally riddled (approx 8 hits), so I turned it round and fired the lead load at it, same distance about 4 pellets hit, the steel were no 4 and the lead no 6.

I then taped up the front pages from the daily telegraph and fired the steel at it at the same distance, it's getting at least full choke patterns so it's little wonder I can't hit anything. The lead shot gave a lovely pattern (on page two btw) that shows why I can average two out of three on pigeons with that load. I have to point out that most of the pigeons I shot at were less than 30 yards and the mallard I shot at were in the dark against a light sky at less than 25 yards. Just to make a point, I only used steel when shooting at the duck.

I'll try the darne tomorrow to see how that performs using the same test.

So here I have my trusty old win 23 3" that is firing patterns so tight with 8 points of choke that I've no chance of hitting anything (incidentally the steel no 4s went more than halfway through the piece of 50 x 50 batten that I used to hold the can/paper with whilst the no 6 didn't - answers quite a lot of the questions I'd asked myself).

So I now have another question, are there any steel loads out there that spread a bit more?

[David BASC]

From our experience, steel does pattern a bit tighter, and will tend to penetrate a bit further.

 

I know quite a few on here have been using loads of steel for a while, so I am sure some of them will be able to answer your question

 

 

David

[drone]

Thanks, David. "A Bit" To me it's like threading a needle at arms length but my little experiment, which has no value other than an insight into what's going on, has opened my eyes to a situation I was beginning to find demoralising.

I fished out my old (1965) remington 1100 complete with cutts compensator and have screwed the skeet tube in; tomorrow I go out to ambush the ducks!

FWIW I looked up the lyavale supreme steel on the makers' website and was surprised to note that they have designed the shotcup to stay intact until at least 3 metres from the muzzle after firing; clearly this will have a profound effect on the workings of the choke on the gun; it's why I decided to use the remington, the skeet tube is very open, so much so that a 12 g cartridge can slide in until the rim stops it. As there is about 3" from the end of the barrel to the choke tube I hope the expansion then constriction of the shot cup as it leaves the barrel then enters the choke tube will cause the shot cup to break up earlier giving me back my lovely open patterns.

[drone]

Rem Choke Tubes.jpg Sorry, couldn't upload pix, too old for this technology

Edited September 1, 2013 by drone

[roughshooter]

Interestingly BASC magazine came today and basc are stating that HEVISHOT can be used through any gun with any choke constriction!!

 

I hope no one trys it with a full choked Damascus barrelled gun.........................

[Varminator]

I hope the lawyers signed your statement off David

[David BASC]

I have double checked, provided it’s HeviShot II (ie second generation) which, according to CIP etc, is categorised as lead-like, so not affected by steel etc restrictions.

 

David

[roughshooter]

I have 13 boxes of Hevishot and every box clearly is marked to used in guns with superior steel proof only.

 

As I understand it Express are no longer doing hevishot as it is too expensive to produce so consequently people are more likely to use the old stuff that is lurking around in shops.

The concern is not for myself (as I know) but perhaps for the older shooter with his tightly choked damascus barreled gun that does not read internet forums or buy the sporting press and perhaps only reads BASC magazine and thinks it will be fine to use hevishot through his gun................................

[kent]

I have double checked, provided it’s HeviShot II (ie second generation) which, according to CIP etc, is categorised as lead-like, so not affected by steel etc restrictions.

 

David

 

The clue is "according to CIP". Unfortunately this is the route of the issue (blind leading the blind). Hevi shot is wickedly hard and is better used with mylar wraps inside the shotcup or tungsten type wads that are far tougher than std steel spec wads.

 

The system needs simplifying, backing up with more than guesses and clearly printing on the boxes (with clear English) in the case of factory loaded shells. Its like all this 1370 Bar rubbish 99% don't understand what it means and the remaining 1% or so only know their shells likely pressure in PSI. Its actually a drastic overload for proof testing.

 

Proof in itself is no "proof" of anything other than its been through a proof house. My neighbour bought a brand new .300 win mag with a loose barrel (yes it bore proof stamp) and many guns in everyday use (some might even bear the steel proof) will fail proof testing due to neglect and lack of maintenance. So take your gun to a proper qualified gunsmith (not a gunseller) and ask, you might be surprised

[Barls2-9-12]

As a matter of fact I had an old silver pigeon which I used for a bit if rough shooting and wildfowling on the sea wall. It had no fleur de lys But I asked a proper gun smith if I could shoot hp steel in it and he said I know it's not designed to shoot it but if it was mine I would.

 

I shot all types of steel you can imagine and never had no bother.

[henry d]

STEEL SHOT

What you need to know from a safety point of view......

 

High Performance Steel cartridges should always be marked as such on the box and should only be fired through guns that have passed Steel Shot proof. These guns should be proved to at least 1320 bar, be stamped with "Steel Shot" and a have a Fleur de Lys proof mark to prove it)......(1320, are you sure??)

 

 

Standard is 65-70mm , max pressure 740 bar, max velocity 1395 fps

 

High performance is 70-89mm , max pressure 1050 bar, max velocity 1410 fps

 

 

The system needs simplifying, backing up with more than guesses and clearly printing on the boxes (with clear English) in the case of factory loaded shells. Its like all this 1370 Bar rubbish 99% don't understand what it means and the remaining 1% or so only know their shells likely pressure in PSI. Its actually a drastic overload for proof testing.

 

Even then the boxes are no help, I have remy sportsman hi-speed steel 3 1/2" 2`s and their speed is 1550 fps & 1050 bar.

 

David are you sure it is 1320 as you say in your post?

[Big Mat]

 

 

 

 

 

Even then the boxes are no help, I have remy sportsman hi-speed steel 3 1/2" 2`s and their speed is 1550 fps & 1050 bar.

 

David are you sure it is 1320 as you say in your post?

 

I had some Gamebore magnum steel 3" BBBs which were 1050bar. I think it just various, bit difficult for BASC to put out a definitive guide when everything changes all the time.

[David BASC]

Yes - HP steel shot proof is minimum 1320 bar

 

David

[wymberley]

I don't know as I don't have ,owt to do with the stuff, but is there possibly some Service Pressure (1050 bar) and Proof Pressure (1320 bar) confusion.

[henry d]

Cheers David...very confusing all the same.