Cats aren't a problem for wild birds official - Countryfile

[Kes]

I'll think you'll find that the RSPB don't think that cats are a problem for birds as well.

 

Sorry, you are correct. Someone (I thought the RSPB) mentioned that cats killed an estimated 50M birds annually.

I have owned cats as a youngster and they brought in bats, grasssnakes, rabbits, birds, mice, and a dormouse. I like cats but they seem to me to be deadly for wildlife. Ok they will predate the most numerous species but they do take whatever they come across, sometimes playing a dealy game until the prey succumbs through multiple injury. I would cut the number of cats and keep them in at night. We have a cat prowls our field but lives some 1/2 mile away. They arent stupid and look for the best areas for their hunting.

 

I also dont doubt the threat from habitat removal but I would like to see a lot less cats (domestic).

 

As a threat to Ack-Acks magnificent cat thread - this one is more a wish to see more honest reporting rather than bias to such an extent in the publicly funded bodies to avoid alienating a percentage of their patrons. As for the BBC - another day.

[Catweazle]

Cats are just part of the problem, corvids which seem to have had a bit of a population explosion over the past few years and grey squirrels are also a real threat! Very few songbirds around here now which is a great pity.

 

Anybody got a spare Larsen trap I can use for a few months??

Dead right about the grey squirrels, I shot a woodland for 5 years and decimated the squirrel population, the number of small birds increased hugely in that period.

[Reece]

Songbird is a massive generalisation. Some of the species with the biggest declines over recent years ie. skylark, corn bunting, song thrush. I doubt predation of cats is a huge issue compared to loss of habitat.

 

Karpman

 

It's not just birds either. Dormice don't exactly do well with cat predation. And in parts of Scotland, you have the problems with wildcats, as pet cats breed with wildcats and dilute the genepool. I think they sometimes give them disease as well, but don't quote me on that.

 

Cat predation is a major problem. Poor management of woodland can be a problem but that's thinking longer term. Habitat hasn't got any worse in the past 10 or so years, in fact it's improved in some places due to stewardship and grant schemes. Cat predation is too big an issue to be brushed aside and ignored.

[Sian]

Personally I think man has a lot to answer for. Cats are natural predators - end of - and act on instinct. They do play a part in the killing of species that we do not want them to kill but they also play a great part in killing species such as rats and mice - species I am sure no-one would argue over. Cats became very useful to man when he started to farm on a larger scale because cats took care of rodents. Man (including woman so no-one comes back at me) on the other hand have no excuses and I am sure by far we play the biggest part in the suffering and extermination of many species. Sorry I just needed to get that off my chest because the way this reads feels a bit like a lot of you would quite happily exterminate the cat population - there are lots of reasons for birds dying not just cats - many don't make it through a night in the winter because they have not been able to find enough to eat to keep them going through the night. I don't want to argue with anyone, haven't got the energy just wanted to say my piece.

[karpman]

 

It's not just birds either. Dormice don't exactly do well with cat predation. And in parts of Scotland, you have the problems with wildcats, as pet cats breed with wildcats and dilute the genepool. I think they sometimes give them disease as well, but don't quote me on that.

 

Cat predation is a major problem. Poor management of woodland can be a problem but that's thinking longer term. Habitat hasn't got any worse in the past 10 or so years, in fact it's improved in some places due to stewardship and grant schemes. Cat predation is too big an issue to be brushed aside and ignored.

Take on board the issues about wildcat mate and unfortunately can see em going the same way as rock dove pretty much being bred out of existence by feral/domestic cats.

 

Dormouse is not doubt predated by the odd moggy but by on large I would imagine its lack of suitable habitat that has seen there numbers plummet. They prefer woodland and spend a good deal of time hibernating and don't like being disturbed this is almost certainly death.

 

Birds like the red backed shrike no longer breed in this country and probably never will again.

 

Maybe there should be tighter controls on cats around sites of special interest or in need of special care. I'm not against controlling cats I just don't think there the no. 1 problem people seem to make them out to be.

 

Karpman

[GingerCat]

Pretty sure cars kill millions of birds on the road every day as well, pehaps tighter controls on them.....

[Penelope]

Damien Aspinall is going to start a captive breeding programme on a remote Scottish island with the intention of releasing pure bred cats back into the Highland peninsulas, after first catching and removing, possibly neutering domestic/wild cat hybrids.

 

http://www.aspinallfoundation.org/animals/small-cats/scottish-wild-cat

 

 

Take on board the issues about wildcat mate and unfortunately can see em going the same way as rock dove pretty much being bred out of existence by feral/domestic cats.

Dormouse is not doubt predated by the odd moggy but by on large I would imagine its lack of suitable habitat that has seen there numbers plummet. They prefer woodland and spend a good deal of time hibernating and don't like being disturbed this is almost certainly death.

Birds like the red backed shrike no longer breed in this country and probably never will again.

Maybe there should be tighter controls on cats around sites of special interest or in need of special care. I'm not against controlling cats I just don't think there the no. 1 problem people seem to make them out to be.

Karpman

[Reece]

Personally I think man has a lot to answer for. Cats are natural predators - end of - and act on instinct. They do play a part in the killing of species that we do not want them to kill but they also play a great part in killing species such as rats and mice - species I am sure no-one would argue over. Cats became very useful to man when he started to farm on a larger scale because cats took care of rodents. Man (including woman so no-one comes back at me) on the other hand have no excuses and I am sure by far we play the biggest part in the suffering and extermination of many species. Sorry I just needed to get that off my chest because the way this reads feels a bit like a lot of you would quite happily exterminate the cat population - there are lots of reasons for birds dying not just cats - many don't make it through a night in the winter because they have not been able to find enough to eat to keep them going through the night. I don't want to argue with anyone, haven't got the energy just wanted to say my piece.

 

They're not natural predators though. They are domesticated animals whose numbers are sustained entirely by humans who feed them, not like a natural predator-prey relationship. They are sustained at unnatural densities by humans.

 

The main time you'll see cats used for pest control is on farms. But the argument that it is OK to ignore the indiscriminate destruction of wildlife by cats because us humans benefit from the pest control aspect of it is quite perverse. Farm cats alone would not be too much of a problem because they are fewer in number - there are a lot more pet cats out there than farm cats.

[ayrshiretaxidermy]

They kill things no doubt about that. But are they killing things in any real danger of becoming extinct in this country. The main birds they kill are common unless any one can show proof otherwise I will hold my opinion.

 

Karpman

 

It matters not a jot that they kill common birds. What we talking here? sparrows, starlings, finches......all protected, and wont be common in a few years time if cats are killing millions a year.

[Reece]

Damien Aspinall is going to start a captive breeding programme on a remote Scottish island with the intention of releasing pure bred cats back into the Highland peninsulas, after first catching and removing, possibly neutering domestic/wild cat hybrids.

 

http://www.aspinallfoundation.org/animals/small-cats/scottish-wild-cat

 

 

 

That's right. Trapping and neutering schemes have been taking place in parts of Scotland for quite a while now.

[Sian]

 

They're not natural predators though. They are domesticated animals whose numbers are sustained entirely by humans who feed them, not like a natural predator-prey relationship. They are sustained at unnatural densities by humans.

 

The main time you'll see cats used for pest control is on farms. But the argument that it is OK to ignore the indiscriminate destruction of wildlife by cats because us humans benefit from the pest control aspect of it is quite perverse. Farm cats alone would not be too much of a problem because they are fewer in number - there are a lot more pet cats out there than farm cats.

They are natural predators just because we have made them pets does not mean they have forgotten their natural instincts. I am not even arguing that cat owners should be more responsible but not all cats live indoors! My own are rescue cats and live in my garden - they do not want to be in my house other than to come and say hello and perhaps have a little sit down whilst the door is still open. I have provided them shelter of a very high standard in the garden, I feed them and I tend to their needs when they are ill by taking them to a vet, they are all speed/neutered - I have done my best. My own cats are useful pest controllers living just outside London - four bloody large rats caught last week! I was going to bring dogs into this but changed my mind because as I stated before I really do not want to argue. I feel a bit uncomfortable with some of your attitudes but you know, I think everyone is entitled to their point of view and unlike some on here, do not want to dismiss a person because they do not agree with me - this is a bit of a rant because quite often people are aggressive and very dismissive of others on this site. If they question "the ways" they must be antis for example, if they do not live the 'country lifestyle' they are idiots, all townies are classed as idiots - do sweeping of so many people. As for farm cats they are very rarely kept in check, no speying or neutering - I am talking about the ones that live practically as feral. I do have knowledge of this as I grew up in a farming community. I may be a townie now but that was not the way I was brought up.

 

Anyway enough now. We will have our difference of opinion and leave it at that. And sorry if I ranted a bit but I quite often feel alienated on this forum although I agree with lots of what you discuss. I just find some attitudes very harsh and it seems you need to tow the party line or **** off.

[karpman]

 

It matters not a jot that they kill common birds. What we talking here? sparrows, starlings, finches......all protected, and wont be common in a few years time if cats are killing millions a year.

Sparrows are on the up despite cats lol. Finches are most at threat from dirty bird feeders.....

 

Karpman

[camokid]

i lost 6 quail to cats this year i wish i new where they lived

[GingerCat]

Some proper cat haters on here, ironic as cars kill millions of birds each year, as studies show, no mention of that, some of the deleted posts show the mentality of the posters or the hypercritical posts of bag numbers if squigs and pigeons or whatever, particularly the post the of the cop coming off his bike entitled pigs do fly or similar, I do hope thus sight is checked by feo,s as I'm sure a few would question the mindset of some cert holders at the least.

[secretagentmole]

I would say that cars tend to kill less birds than cats. Birds tend to fly above cars! Cars do not actively hunt birds. Cars do not escape into the wild on their own and breed establishing a feral species that hunts birds.

Cats do.

 

I am not a cat hater, but cat owners have to realise that their precious mog is in fact a well evolved hunting machine that hunts for the fun of it! Perhaps bringing in a level of ownership equivalent to dog owners, ie clear up after the damned things and keep on your property, meaning all strays and ferals could be rounded up, rehomed or euthanised would fix a lot of the problems.

Edited September 25, 2013 by secretagentmole

[GingerCat]

That will make me feel much better next time I drive by a field of stubble and a flock of birds fly into the side of my car as has happened on more than one occasion. I'm not a dog hater, in fact I'm going to be getting one shortly but under the logic of if they are not on their own property and make a mess can I also euthanize one? Also as has happened on a daily basis due to the irresponsible owner. How do u plan to keep cats on the owners property? Keep them inside? I don't like dog mess on my lawn so will all dogs be kept inside? Or the burns on the grass when they pee? But that's acceptable I guess.

As I said there are some proper cat haters on here. Feral is fair enough but it seems when it comes to people's pets they are regarded as total vermin regardless of the facts, on thus case the birds. They kill, weather cars accidentally hit birds or not is irrelevant they still kill them in their millions every year.

I might be getting on my soap box here but its really starting to grip my **** so to speak.

[secretagentmole]

That will make me feel much better next time I drive by a field of stubble and a flock of birds fly into the side of my car as has happened on more than one occasion. I'm not a dog hater, in fact I'm going to be getting one shortly but under the logic of if they are not on their own property and make a mess can I also euthanize one? Also as has happened on a daily basis due to the irresponsible owner. How do u plan to keep cats on the owners property? Keep them inside? I don't like dog mess on my lawn so will all dogs be kept inside? Or the burns on the grass when they pee? But that's acceptable I guess.

As I said there are some proper cat haters on here. Feral is fair enough but it seems when it comes to people's pets they are regarded as total vermin regardless of the facts, on thus case the birds. They kill, weather cars accidentally hit birds or not is irrelevant they still kill them in their millions every year.

I might be getting on my soap box here but its really starting to grip my **** so to speak.

Note I said strays and ferals! My dogs have had microchips implanted so that if they do stray, they can be returned to us! I am not advocating euthanising pets. If you dont like dog mess on your lawn, keep the dog off of it, simple. Keep your own cat on your property by constructing an external enclosed exercise area (like a dog run for cats if you will). That way people won't be able to hoy half a brick at it when it is crapping in their garden and the cat will then be unable to hunt birds!

 

I was not talking about euthanising anybodies pet, but the huge number of ferals that are roaming the countryside and urban areas!

Edited September 25, 2013 by secretagentmole

[norfolk dumpling]

Couldn't believe figures quoted - our neighbours little black ******* filled the house up with corpses when they were away for a long weekend. Evenif our 10m moggies kill only one creature per week that's 500m birds and animals per annum. Personally I think it is much higher.

[GingerCat]

Keep someone else dog off my lawn. Half a brick at it. Interesting points. Do enclosures stop birds landing in your garden? Had enough of this thread its wearing thin.

[kdubya]

Keep someone else dog off my lawn. Half a brick at it. Interesting points. Do enclosures stop birds landing in your garden? Had enough of this thread its wearing thin.

wearing thin? not as thin as cat owners who could not care less what tiddles is up to or who's garden he is dumping in, you want a cat great, but you keep it indoors or on a lead when out, it really is that simple.

 

KW

[norfolk dumpling]

Think we should neuter all of them - within 10-20 yes they would all have gone.

[GingerCat]

wearing thin? not as thin as cat owners who could not care less what tiddles is up to or who's garden he is dumping in, you want a cat great, but you keep it indoors or on a lead when out, it really is that simple.

 

KW

Fair enough, all dogs on leads then when outside. That should stop the couple who let their German Sheppard dump on my lawn, as for neutering good idea, we can start with pricks who can't see the other side of the argument. Despite my nickname on here I don't own a cat but its clear you don't see the other side if the argument.

[Paddy Galore!]

only 1 a week? i'm going to get a few more, we've got tons of birds pooing on our lawn

[secretagentmole]

Keep someone else dog off my lawn. Half a brick at it. Interesting points. Do enclosures stop birds landing in your garden? Had enough of this thread its wearing thin.

No but if you put a roof on the enclosure (say using the same wire material you used to build the run), the birds will not land within killing range of the moggy!

 

As for the problem with the dog fouling your land, video it, follow them to their house, inform them if their dog does not stop defecating on your land you will charge them for the removal and disposal of the resultant faecal matter and inform the police that they are failing to keep their dog under control when they walk it.

[flynny]

wearing thin? not as thin as cat owners who could not care less what tiddles is up to or who's garden he is dumping in, you want a cat great, but you keep it indoors or on a lead when out, it really is that simple.

 

KW

CORRECTUMONDO,

 

I totally agree mate, Just like dogs,

 

ATB

 

Flynny