babs2020 Posted September 30, 2013 Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 hi guys had feo around last week says can have 17 and 22 so what would be a good starter guns for rabbit and fox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted September 30, 2013 Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 You'll want the 17 for fox. Go for a CZ452, they seem to be well regarded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babs2020 Posted September 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 yes that what i keep looking at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belly47 Posted September 30, 2013 Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 I recently got my fac and went for the cz455 in .17hmr and I love it. have had lots of rabbits with it so far and 1 fox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babs2020 Posted September 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 whats the difference between the 452 and 455 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snipers eye Posted September 30, 2013 Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 455 thumbhole is a nicer looking gun,but they all shoot the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 22 for me and a centerfire. Depends on your circumstance though. U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet boy Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 This is my CZ 455 .17HMR-it's a beautiful rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal 7888 Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 This is my CZ 455 .17HMR-it's a beautiful rifle. image.jpg hahaa, WOW looks like youve mounted the hubble telescope on top! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) whats the difference between the 452 and 455 Other than marginal mechanical and aesthetic differences, NOTHING important. User barrel change options for the 455, but VERY few will buy it for this purpose. The 455 is NO more accurate or reliable than a 452. There are lots of 452/455 models/calibres to chose from. As regards it being a nicer looking gun, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. My 452 American .22WMR ATB! Edited October 1, 2013 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadioles Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Did you tell your feo that you wanted to shoot fox? Some are a bit fussy about the use of rimfire for foxes. To cover your back try and get them to add "any lawful quarry" to your licence. In my view both are suitable for "opportunistic" fox but only head shots at relatively close range (50 yards?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) Did you tell your feo that you wanted to shoot fox? Some are a bit fussy about the use of rimfire for foxes. To cover your back try and get them to add "any lawful quarry" to your licence. In my view both are suitable for "opportunistic" fox but only head shots at relatively close range (50 yards?). What is this "opportunist" malarkey about? I use rimfires a LOT in very planned situations to remove fox! There was nothing opportunist, lucky, underpowered, unreasonable or unsafe etc in this! Baited to a safe shooting position, and using .22lr CZ Silhouette with subs. Edited October 2, 2013 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) What is this "opportunist" malarkey about? I use rimfires a LOT in very planned situations to remove fox! There was nothing opportunist, lucky, underpowered, unreasonable or unsafe etc in this! Dsc00942b.jpg Baited to a safe shooting position, and using .22lr CZ Silhouette +1 Quite often a .22 using subs is the best choice as it is more than capable and keeps the neighbours happy(what they can't hear or see is always the best) There's a lot of talk about underpowered. It's all about shot placement, I wouldn't fancy one behind the ear from a .22 at 100yds never mind 50yds. Edited October 1, 2013 by r1steele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) +1 too. Edited October 1, 2013 by keg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 I agree with Dekers 22lr works very well in the right environment. Oh and I think his rifle looks the nicer of the 2 as well!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Lost count how many have fell to a 22lr myself...good work D. I said centerfire earlier but if it was going to be two rimmies the larger would be 22WMR! U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Totally agree nothing wrong with a .22 for fox, even with subs there more than up to the job out to 50yrds. I'd get a cz452 American in both calibre's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 The 455 and 452 are different guns, it has nothing to do with the 455 having a thumbhole available in the range. Action wise the 455 is a magnum action only adjusted in the case of the .22 lr, it also has a steel action (the 452 is alloy). The steel action allows barrel swaps, though this is mute to the uk user to be fair. Both shoot equally well though I prefer the dedicated small action variant 452 in the shorter case LR etc. If it were Fox and rabbit (not just the odd dumb fox) I should certainly go the .22 mag route personally (stacks more clout and very predictable terminals compared to a .17 hmr). Outside of opportunistic shots or special purposes the rim fires really are not a foxing rifle. If I was restricted to 50yds tops and noise wasn't a big issue (as in out in the fields not in a suburban garden) I should pick up a 12 ga and some no.1 or BB lead any day and be a heap more confident, its ok taking that single well aimed shot out of an upstairs window rested while the thing eats cat food on the lawn but out in the fields with truly wild un-habituated animals things get a little different. I don't think I have been presented with a fair shot at a fox with a rim fire in years here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 The 455 and 452 are different guns, it has nothing to do with the 455 having a thumbhole available in the range. Action wise the 455 is a magnum action only adjusted in the case of the .22 lr, it also has a steel action (the 452 is alloy). The steel action allows barrel swaps, though this is mute to the uk user to be fair. Both shoot equally well though I prefer the dedicated small action variant 452 in the shorter case LR etc. If it were Fox and rabbit (not just the odd dumb fox) I should certainly go the .22 mag route personally (stacks more clout and very predictable terminals compared to a .17 hmr). Outside of opportunistic shots or special purposes the rim fires really are not a foxing rifle. If I was restricted to 50yds tops and noise wasn't a big issue (as in out in the fields not in a suburban garden) I should pick up a 12 ga and some no.1 or BB lead any day and be a heap more confident, its ok taking that single well aimed shot out of an upstairs window rested while the thing eats cat food on the lawn but out in the fields with truly wild un-habituated animals things get a little different. I don't think I have been presented with a fair shot at a fox with a rim fire in years here. You're suggesting that you would use a .22 mag as a foxing rifle then go on to say rim fires are not really foxing rifles (thought a .22 mag was a rim fire). Anyway, the argument wasn't about a rim fire being a dedicated foxing rifle it was about it's suitability to kill foxes. In the right circumstances the .22 rim fire is the best as when noise is the issue nothing is better. We know the difference between foxes out in the wild and in general a centre fire is the correct tool but you cannot rule out the rim fires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal 7888 Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Totally agree nothing wrong with a .22 for fox, even with subs there more than up to the job out to 50yrds. I'd get a cz452 American in both calibre's. What stock have you got on that chap? looks nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 What stock have you got on that chap? looks nice! looks like a Boyd's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 You're suggesting that you would use a .22 mag as a foxing rifle then go on to say rim fires are not really foxing rifles (thought a .22 mag was a rim fire). Anyway, the argument wasn't about a rim fire being a dedicated foxing rifle it was about it's suitability to kill foxes. In the right circumstances the .22 rim fire is the best as when noise is the issue nothing is better. We know the difference between foxes out in the wild and in general a centre fire is the correct tool but you cannot rule out the rim fires. if it had to be a RF that would be the one Sir, rimfires are not really foxing rifles (HO guidelines alone should tell us this) yet they can still be employed as such if you have the correct situation (imo rare for most of us). Without question there has been more foxes shot in the last 50 yrs with .22 lr than all the "normal small centrefire calibres" This does not make it more suitable or even a good choice just a fact. That said I bet more have been shot with a 12ga. Will a rimfire kill a fox? Yes even a .22 sub will kill a Red Stag if you hit it right in the sweet spot (but that's illegal, immoral and cruel) Getting the correct opportunity might prove frustrating though and the .22 mag widens the options regards range and placement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 if it had to be a RF that would be the one Sir, rimfires are not really foxing rifles (HO guidelines alone should tell us this) yet they can still be employed as such if you have the correct situation (imo rare for most of us). Without question there has been more foxes shot in the last 50 yrs with .22 lr than all the "normal small centrefire calibres" This does not make it more suitable or even a good choice just a fact. That said I bet more have been shot with a 12ga. Will a rimfire kill a fox? Yes even a .22 sub will kill a Red Stag if you hit it right in the sweet spot (but that's illegal, immoral and cruel) Getting the correct opportunity might prove frustrating though and the .22 mag widens the options regards range and placement I totally agree that out of all the rimfires the .22 mag is possibly the most appropriate fox round and yes centrefires are the best choice but with the ever expanding urban fox problems which a lot more people are coming across the .22 with subs is probably the best. I know you said this situation is rare for most of us but it is a lot more prolific than you think, so not quite as rare as you possibly think. Firing a 12 bore or centrefire in a suburban back garden in my opinion is asking for unneccesary attention which is where the .22 using subs is the best option to kill an unwanted fox. Fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deaquire Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 I started with a .22 and found myself nervous using it because of ricochets - they are few and far between but they happen and in my eyes that's not safe. I then struggled between a .22wmr and a .17hmr so put both variations on my license until I'd made up my mind. In the end I opted for the .17HMR CZ 455 thumbhole with 20" barrel. The aesthetics and flat trajectory persuaded me. The 20" was £50 cheaper than the 16" so that was an easy choice. I haven't picked up my .22 since. I've been out about 7 times since buying it 4 weeks ago and have bagged 73 rabbits. Only 4 of which have not been clean kills when the bunnies have been a bit more lively. It doesn't turn the meat inside out as some will have you believe and shoots flat out to about 125 yards in my experience. The noise is great if you're target shooting without sound mod without being over the top. Sometimes the exit hole can be bigger than you'd expect. In my opinion, you'll have much more fun, and be safer to, with a .17HMR of your choosing. I believe that the .17HMR has increased my shooting skills. Either that or it's much easier 'cos I don't have to be so close Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 What is this "opportunist" malarkey about? I use rimfires a LOT in very planned situations to remove fox! There was nothing opportunist, lucky, underpowered, unreasonable or unsafe etc in this! Dsc00942b.jpg Baited to a safe shooting position, and using .22lr CZ Silhouette with subs. Priceless ..... Were they really baited to a dog bowl with Pedigree Chum? I was expecting a post with an opened up rabbit but looks from your background like they might just be more used to dog bowls..... Well done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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