To Clean Or Not To Clean?

[110csw]

Following on from a different thread I saw this

 

I cleaned the barrel of my 22 a few months ago and it was a huge mistake as far as I'm concerned, after I cleaned it I could group beeter at 50 with a shotgun, took hundreds of rounds before it was back on song.

I'm just away to buy an old CZ .22 off a mate (once the postie drops off my FAC) and reading the quote above has sort of confused me. Why would not cleaning your rifle improve accuracy? I spent 9 years I the Army and have had it drummed into me your rifle is kept clean at all times no matter what. When I've been out with my shotgun I always clean it thoroughly before sticking it back in the cabinet.

 

I'm now going to ask my pal once I get the .22 what his opinion is too but I'm interested in all your opinions too.

[fieldwanderer]

A lot of match shooters I used to know swore by this but none of the GB squad members while I was on it.

 

My coach used to say "clean steel can be consistent, dirt can't" (and he had a box full of Olympic medals......)

 

I suppose it's possible there's barrels out there that just shoot better dirty but I'm happy with cleaning after use, I feel it's a good habit to get into - just find a routine you're happy with and stick to it; like everything else in rifle shooting, I'm sure consistency counts for a lot.

[kent]

Because bad cleaning is worse than no cleaning. If anyone thinks they can fire thousands of rounds down any gun, put it away damp etc then spend ten minutes cleaning it and all will be good from shot one then they are misguided. What you don't need to do with a .22 lr is clean it quite so often as other guns - due to the limited amount of powder burned and the lubed lead bullet (which travels quite slow compared to other firearms). I maybe clean every 250-500 these days unless the gun has gotten wet etc. Expect the Barrel to need a few through it to settle but this depends on the individual gun

[welshwarrior]

The Army over clean their rifles but I agree you do need to keep any barrel clean my 22 get cleaned after a heavy paper punching session or every 100 rounds first round or 2 can move from time to time but not enough to miss a 50 yard bunny.

[HDAV]

Army use is different for standard weapons and the SA80 is/was plagues with jamming....accuracy is of a secondary concern in that situation!

[110csw]

So would a happy medium be barrel every 100 rounds or so and bolt, breech and exposed steel parts a rub down with oil?

 

I presume looking after a .243 will be barrel pulled through after every outing. I'm hoping to have some cash coming my way soon so planning to get a Tikka in stainless and synthetic.

[Albert 888]

Use my 22lr for targets and hunting mainly target. Have fired well over 4000 round through it since new,which was about a year ago and cleaned it 4 times. Takes about 10 shots to get bang on after a deep clean as in the bore. If you want accuracy clean bores and good ammo ie eley sport for my rifle. Always clean the exterior of the rifle and all moving parts after every use. The 223 gets the a deep bore cleane after every outing weather I have fired none or 100. As kent says you can replicate clean but not dirty. My 22lr likes a coating down the barrel thats why I dont clean the bore that often.

[fieldwanderer]

So would a happy medium be barrel every 100 rounds or so and bolt, breech and exposed steel parts a rub down with oil?

 

I presume looking after a .243 will be barrel pulled through after every outing. I'm hoping to have some cash coming my way soon so planning to get a Tikka in stainless and synthetic.

 

Erm, I can't claim to be some professor of barrel cleaning but, for what it's worth; sounds o.k. to me, try not to go mad with oil - it just seems to attract grit and muck.

 

What I do after each use, a bit o.t.t. I suppose but I find it strangely relaxing / satisfying. This is mostly the bore but anything that moves gets cleaned and a very light oil.

 

You'll need;

 

A roll of 4X2 or some other suitable patches (cut 4x2 to a suitable size)

A good quality cleaning rod - brass, aluminium or plastic coated (all one piece) with a handle that's free to turn so the patch or brush can follow the rifleing.

A jag to fit your rod (in your case, I'd try to get .22 and 6mm to suit the same rod)

A phosphor bronze brush for each cal. (as above)

Preferably a bore guide for both rifles (though they can be tricky to find for rimfire, and sako/tikka as the bolts are quite narrow)

Bore solvent (removes carbon and general muck) will suit both rifles (I use hoppes no.9, careful as hoppes do a few very similar bottles that aren't all the same stuff)

Copper solvent (for the .243)

An old tooth brush

A dentist's tooth pick - plastic cocktail sticks, or even wooden ones work even better.

 

I start by removing the moderator, bolt and magazine and putting an old newspaper under the muzzle

I push one or two clean patches through to get the worst of the muck out (use the bore guide obviously) - ALWAYS push from chamber to muzzle, it protects the crown and you're not pushing muck to where you'll struggle to clean it out. (trigger, extractor grooves etc).

Next, I wet a patch with bore solvent and push it through - again, bore guide and chamber to muzzle (obviously remove patch or whatever before pulling rod back through).

Wipe the rod clean each time you pull it back out.

prop the butt up so solvent can only run towards muzzle.

Now, give the solvent a chance to do it's thing - run round all the little nooks and crannies with the tooth pick, wipe bolt over with a clean cloth - it doesn't normally need oil on the outside all that does is attract dirt.

put a few clean patches through the barrel until they come through clean, repeat the solvent if it doesn't seem to be happening.

Remove bore guide and very carefully push one very lightly oiled patch through, don't forget to wipe the crown clean and wipe where the bolt goes.

 

On the .22, that's it done. For the .243, skip the last step for now...

 

run a patch through that's wet with copper solvent

 

Wait 10-15mins

 

run a couple of clean patches through, they should come out with blue stains on them. If it seemed a lot of blue, repeat.

 

If it seemed pretty clean, one patch with a little bore solvent followed by a couple of clean ones then the last step from above and you're done. You may want to use bore solvent on the crown on a bit of cloth or whatever before the last step.

 

Cleaning mods is something I've yet to work out, I certainly don't enjoy doing it!

 

Your bolts should only need stripping and cleaning a few times a year, when you do - be VERY sparing with oil, the lightest coating possible is all that's needed.

 

BUT WAIT!! f.w. - what are all those brushes I bought for!?? Use 'em when you feel you need to, "just to make sure" I try not to use brushes too often to avoid any unnecessary wear. Just don't forget brass, copper, phosphor bronze all react the same to copper solvent - so you'll keep getting blue out if you use your phosphor bronze brushes and copper solvent, it's not getting more copper out of the bore - it's eating the brush On that note, rinsing brushes and jags in white spirit or similar is a good idea too. The toothbrush is for any little nooks and crannies that it works on - it can't do any harm and proves very useful at times.

 

Like I said, that's just how I do it (how I was taught to) - it works for me but everyone seems to have their own way, as will you once you get settled into a routine

Edited October 22, 2013 by fieldwanderer

[110csw]

Wow cheers for the in depth instructions. I'm pretty clued up (well thought I was ) from my 8.5 years stuck with an SA80 (or the L85 A1 Rifle if you prefer ). But you've added a fair few steps. I've still got an SA80 cleaning kit and plenty of 2"x4" flannelette and various copper and other brushes that I use for my shotguns.

 

Thanks,

Paddy

[Muddy Funker]

I don't claim to be an authority on barrel cleaning I just summed up my experience with my rifle.

 

There's no way I'll bother cleaning it with any regularity again, it took a ridiculous number of rounds before it grouped properly again.

 

Maybe this just co incided with a duff bunch of winchesters? Who knows.

 

Just so you know I'm not some slack ar$e, the HMR gets cleaned after every outing regardles of shots fired.

[Dunkield]

How did we get from .22 cleaning to what the army do?

 

Anyway I never clean mine and it is very accurate, the only time I did it was nightmare

 

As for 'a clean barrel is the only repeatable state' do these people clean their barrel after every single shot in the field?

[110csw]

I don't claim to be an authority on barrel cleaning I just summed up my experience with my rifle

I meant no ill by it lol I've honestly never heard of not cleaning your rifle every time. Also it would appear that you're far from alone with your experiences.

 

Cheers guys

[1066]

I clean my .22 barrels regularly, every year, whether they need it or not. The semi-auto gets a good de-gunk at the first sign of unreliability but this is an action strip and clean, not the barrel. I played the .22 prone match game for many years and again about once a year was the norm.

 

On the other hand, anything but the .22's get the full works every time they are used.

[telf]

i clean my 22s after every outing,i do this because they shoot well, i have done it since they were new and i just think that guns should be cleaned after use ,everybody has their own idea thow,just one thing there is a video on you tube somewhere where a bloke tests different cleaning solutions for cleaning lead and copper solvent didnt fair very well,the best was hoppes no9

 

i have always used copper solvent up to now mainly because i used to have an hmr and just used it for the 22s as well,but now the hmr has gone and after seeing the video im going to give the hoppes a go

[Dunkield]

Are you using subs Telf?

[scotslad]

I know some gunshops that would fall over laughing when u ask for rifle cleaning gear.

 

I never clean the barrel of my 22, and don't do much with my big rifles either. But the outsides are well looked after

 

When i first strted shooting it was drummed into by the the kepper i helped (and later my boss) always clean ur shotguns straight away but he Never cleaned a rifle and he was heavily involved in the deer side before he moved to that estate so a rifle was his livliehood. But that is mibee an old school stalkers/keepers outlook

 

Think all rifles are different and will depend on the barrel, possibly some off the cheaper makes may shoot better when dirty as evens out any imperfections in the barrel, but obviously different to a custom match job

[kent]

How did we get from .22 cleaning to what the army do?

 

Anyway I never clean mine and it is very accurate, the only time I did it was nightmare

 

As for 'a clean barrel is the only repeatable state' do these people clean their barrel after every single shot in the field?

 

On a centrefire, yes always back to metal (which depends what its done as to the effort or procedure required) its then given a light oiled patch and put away. On taking it out its de-oiled with meths soaked patches then dried. Rimfire do need running in, the period is shortened by the quality of the bore finish so I only clean the bore if its been out in bad weather or say every 250 rounds. Its not to bad if you have facilties at home to run it back in. Mine is useable from 1st shot but at its best after a box, for instance if I had a newly cleaned barrel on the .22 I couldn't blame the cleaning if I missed a 50 yds head shot on a bunny but could if it was 100 yds- in deed I shouldn't try the latter it could be 1-1/2" out but at 50yds any more than 1/2" might be seen as my fault

The issue with extended running in is it shows either the bore is badly pitted etc or you never cleaned it fully back to steel (partly cleaning moves muck into "log jams")

[Dunkield]

My point was...

 

What do the "I clean my barrel every time as clean is the only repeatable state" people do if they have to take a second shot, then with a 'dirty' barrel?

[kent]

My point was...

 

What do the "I clean my barrel every time as clean is the only repeatable state" people do if they have to take a second shot, then with a 'dirty' barrel?

I see your point but the same can be said starting with a crudy tube, you cannot keep it from getting worse each shot. A big issue being leaving crud hardens it, a cold bore dirty shot will be less repeatable than a cold bore clean barrel shot. I suppose the non believers often need showing rather than telling

It really is a case of you cannot replicate an exact state of dirty, I do not get any stored clean cf rifles wandering around on zero.

If a gun was proven to shoot at its very,very best after warming the barrel with three sighters from a clean bore I doubt anyone would in the field

[bicykillgaz]

I clean my .22 once a year if I remember, pull it through with the bore snake 2-3 times after pouring some solvent cleaner down it. They give it a squirt of oil the another 2-3 pulls and the go waste another box of ammo getting it shooting straight again!

 

My .22hornet just gets the same treatment after every couple of outings, it doesn't seem to like been too clean, it's got a bit of pitting in it though from the previous owner treating it like a rimfire.

[telf]

Are you using subs Telf?

yes,winchesters