Can I still shoot ???

[aris]

Welsh1 - i'm thinking you have a bone to pick because of a poor experience? :whistling:

[steve_b_wales]

have to say, BASC have been nothing but helpful to me before and after I had dealings with a certain firearms department, cant say too much because it is still on going but one thing I will say is BASC could not have done anymore for me,

 

even to the point of having a BASC representative attend mettings with me,

 

I will certainly keep my subscription going to my end

 

THANKS BASC

 

atb Evo

 

ps with regards the op, yes you can still go shooting mate as I do numerous days a week as long as its within the law

I agree with the above. BASC have helped me, and 'stepped in' when necessary to help with any issues.

[welsh1]

Welsh1 - i'm thinking you have a bone to pick because of a poor experience? :whistling:

I have no bone to pick,i am just pointing out my experience with BASC and judging by the people who have pm'd me i am not the only one,and if you trawl back through all my drivel on here you will see i have complimented BASC in the past,but the fact remains that no matter what david states is the procedure, in reality it seems a lottery as to what help if any you get,and david making promises that he will make sure it gets seen to is the wrong thing to be doing, it should be sorted at the initial point of contact,not by the media arm who are only here to promote BASC.

 

It is all well and good making off the cuff remarks as you have above, but believe me until you have been in the situation of being investigated by two police forces,having all your weapons removed and looking at having your career ruined just because two police officers lied to stop a complaint against them being made,you will then realise that you desperately need someone in your corner to fight the injustice that is involved, and to secure your right to get your weapons back,after all that's why most join BASC so they have insurance and a team prepared to help and advise.

 

In my case,one phone number,a bloke who basically didn't /want to bother and that was it 10 minutes and sorry nothing we can do for you.

[Muddy Funker]

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

 

Slightly different scenario but someone arrested for drink driving will usually carry on driving quite lawfully up to the point they are convicted and banned in court. Unless an interim ban is sought and granted.

 

I can't see why this is any different, the law is the law and you are innocent until proven guilty.

 

Edit: Therefore under the provisions that you are allowed to shoot another persons guns then why not do so, I appreciate that due to this being violence related the guns have been seized. Can't be too careful I guess.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Muddy Funker

[welsh1]

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

 

Slightly different scenario but someone arrested for drink driving will usually carry on driving quite lawfully up to the point they are convicted and banned in court. Unless an interim ban is sought and granted.

 

I can't see why this is any different, the law is the law and you are innocent until proven guilty.

 

Edit: Therefore under the provisions that you are allowed to shoot another persons guns then why not do so, I appreciate that due to this being violence related the guns have been seized. Can't be too careful I guess.

Where weapons are held, and an accusation of violence is concerned it is guilty until proven innocent,and i think rightly so.

Edited October 25, 2013 by welsh1

[aris]

I have no bone to pick,i am just pointing out my experience with BASC and judging by the people who have pm'd me i am not the only one,and if you trawl back through all my drivel on here you will see i have complimented BASC in the past,but the fact remains that no matter what david states is the procedure, in reality it seems a lottery as to what help if any you get,and david making promises that he will make sure it gets seen to is the wrong thing to be doing, it should be sorted at the initial point of contact,not by the media arm who are only here to promote BASC.

 

It is all well and good making off the cuff remarks as you have above, but believe me until you have been in the situation of being investigated by two police forces,having all your weapons removed and looking at having your career ruined just because two police officers lied to stop a complaint against them being made,you will then realise that you desperately need someone in your corner to fight the injustice that is involved, and to secure your right to get your weapons back,after all that's why most join BASC so they have insurance and a team prepared to help and advise.

 

In my case,one phone number,a bloke who basically didn't /want to bother and that was it 10 minutes and sorry nothing we can do for you.

 

Well, perhaps based on the circumstances - their advice of calling a solicitor was the best advice? You might not have liked it - and of course BASC don't offer legal cover (yet), and you are in what you might call 'high-risk' profession when it comes to dealing with the police or being reported to the police (undoubtedly vindictively).

 

Of course you could have just been given some bad customer service at the time - but your postings certainly do have a tone of bone-picking in them.

David has offered to help this chap - surely you can take that offer at face value?

[David BASC]

As I have said countless times before, we will always try to give the best possible advice based on our significant experience and knowledge of the licencing system.

 

If any member ever feels we have not delivered get in touch with me and I will do all I can to help. There may be times when our advice may not meet with your expectations, and we should have explained more clearly why we gave the advice we did at that time and I suspect this may not have been explained clearly, for that I m sorry, and I am working to improve this aspect of our service

 

Yes if you are accused of a violent act the police will almost always take your guns away while the matter is investigated.

 

David

 

PS I am the only person posting under David BASC , no one else has access to my account.

Edited October 25, 2013 by David BASC

[welsh1]

 

Well, perhaps based on the circumstances - their advice of calling a solicitor was the best advice? You might not have liked it - and of course BASC don't offer legal cover (yet), and you are in what you might call 'high-risk' profession when it comes to dealing with the police or being reported to the police (undoubtedly vindictively).

 

Of course you could have just been given some bad customer service at the time - but your postings certainly do have a tone of bone-picking in them.

David has offered to help this chap - surely you can take that offer at face value?

David offers help to everyone he sees needs it that is his job,i offered advice also from a personal perspective to the op,Strange how david offered to help me if i sent him my details, the same thing he did when we had the same conversation a couple of months ago.

 

and your point about bad customer service is exactly what i am getting at,i am giving the forum the other side of the coin and a personal insight as to what happened to me when i followed the set procedure and contacted BASC through the advised channels.

 

I only argue on certain points with basc, and if you look at some of my advice to other posters i have told them to contact basc,i am not against basc,i am still a member, what i am against is the "we will help you just call"trotted out, when in reality it is more of a lottery if you get help,and hopefully by people like me complaining vocally and publicly it will get sorted and others will not suffer what myself and others have.Proof of this is the last thread in this vein where basc panicked as people realised the insurance offered was not what most perceived it to be,basc had to listen and to their credit are now sorting out that point.

 

Your point of dealing with the police and being a high risk profession is bonkers,are you saying i should expect to be stitched up by a police sgt and pc because they were terribly unprofessional, obstructive down right rude and out and out liars,and when caught out decide to ruin my reputation and career to save their own sorry backsides,i hope you never have to deal with them,because without video evidence i would probably still be unemployed and never be allowed to own any weapons again.I am a professional, and when dealing with other agencies expect them to be professional,not lying cheating scum.

[remmyman]

Any advice before in ring firearms officer

 

The police are holding my shotgun certificate and guns due to a road rage incident and I'm awaiting a court date to see if I can have them back in the mean time can I still shoot with friends under there licence using there shotguns on private land with permission from land owner I've not been told by the court or police that I can't go shooting ?? Also it would be for vermin not at a clay ground any help would be great as my firearms officer is away for two weeks on holiday cheers .

Forget the FEO. Insist that you get to speak to the Fireams Licensing manager! Keeping quiet and abstaining from your involvement/participation in shooting could be interpreted as an admission of guilt by some parties?

 

Regards remmyman

[robbiep]

While I am sure David is genuine in his/BASC's offer of help, it appears that Welsh1 has had a different experience.

 

However, Welsh1's postings appear almost to be 'foaming rants' accusing BASC of promising the earth, and utterly failing to deliver.

 

He promised (somewhere on the last page) that this was his 'last word' on the subject, but does not seem able or willing to let it lie.

 

Bearing in mind that 'intemperate habits' are one of the reasons that the police might not grant a SGC/FAC, holding a grudge quite so vindictively does not seem to me to be hugely 'temperate'.

[aris]

David offers help to everyone he sees needs it that is his job,i offered advice also from a personal perspective to the op,Strange how david offered to help me if i sent him my details, the same thing he did when we had the same conversation a couple of months ago.

 

and your point about bad customer service is exactly what i am getting at,i am giving the forum the other side of the coin and a personal insight as to what happened to me when i followed the set procedure and contacted BASC through the advised channels.

 

I only argue on certain points with basc, and if you look at some of my advice to other posters i have told them to contact basc,i am not against basc,i am still a member, what i am against is the "we will help you just call"trotted out, when in reality it is more of a lottery if you get help,and hopefully by people like me complaining vocally and publicly it will get sorted and others will not suffer what myself and others have.Proof of this is the last thread in this vein where basc panicked as people realised the insurance offered was not what most perceived it to be,basc had to listen and to their credit are now sorting out that point.

 

Your point of dealing with the police and being a high risk profession is bonkers,are you saying i should expect to be stitched up by a police sgt and pc because they were terribly unprofessional, obstructive down right rude and out and out liars,and when caught out decide to ruin my reputation and career to save their own sorry backsides,i hope you never have to deal with them,because without video evidence i would probably still be unemployed and never be allowed to own any weapons again.I am a professional, and when dealing with other agencies expect them to be professional,not lying cheating scum.

 

Indeed - perhaps you were given duff advice and poor service, but the tone of your posts does not come across as constructive. I applaud you for giving the other side of the story - because it is clear that BASC have taken note of some of the points you have brought up in this and other posts - such as the legal cover.

 

With regards to being high risk - yes. I don't doubt you are very professional, but if someone you are dealing with (not police) accuses you of something, the police will be involved and may have to investigate. If someone physically attacks you and you defend yourself - the police will be involved, and all sorts of accusations will come out of it - helmet cam or not. The police will have to deal with that in the way that they do, and that may involve taking guns. Your job is inherently more risky for legal insurance than someone who sits at a desk all day.

 

There is also the situation where you will deal with police who accuse you of things which never happened (as you did) - all added risks in an insurers eyes.

[welsh1]

While I am sure David is genuine in his/BASC's offer of help, it appears that Welsh1 has had a different experience.

 

However, Welsh1's postings appear almost to be 'foaming rants' accusing BASC of promising the earth, and utterly failing to deliver.

 

He promised (somewhere on the last page) that this was his 'last word' on the subject, but does not seem able or willing to let it lie.

 

Bearing in mind that 'intemperate habits' are one of the reasons that the police might not grant a SGC/FAC, holding a grudge quite so vindictively does not seem to me to be hugely 'temperate'.

Please do not judge me when you have never met me and are not qualified to give an opinion on my mental state,my posts are not foaming rants ,they are mostly answering points raised by others,i do not hold a grudge, it was myself that was asked what kind of "punishment" i was looking at against the police who had lied, i was asked by my force and their force, i asked then to be lenient and to just make sure the officers were out of order and that they knew they had done wrong,hardly the actions of someone holding a grudge vindictively,i was also advised to take the matter furthur to the IPCC but declined the offer as i wanted it to be finished with and felt all parties had learned from their lies, i was commended in my absolute professionalism throughout the whole affair by my firearms department,so please before you make sweeping comments on my persona have the decency to firstly have met me face to face and secondly know all the facts of the case before making sweeping inaccurate statements.

I also explained why i had posted again after stating it was my last post.

 

aris ,i am aware of the risk of accusation and have been in that position many times, but that is what the headcam was for,what i did not expect to ever do is defend against lies from the police,and it is this one specific action that i am talking about.

 

Strangely my insurance carries no more risk than most other professions.

Edited October 25, 2013 by welsh1

[Muddy Funker]

Where weapons are held, and an accusation of violence is concerned it is guilty until proven innocent,and i think rightly so.

 

I understand that, hence what I added in my post after the edit.

[welsh1]

 

I understand that, hence what I added in my post after the edit.

Sorry mate i missed your edit

[robbiep]

Please do not judge me when you have never met me and are not qualified to give an opinion on my mental state,my posts are not foaming rants ,they are mostly answering points raised by others,i do not hold a grudge, it was myself that was asked what kind of "punishment" i was looking at against the police who had lied, i was asked by my force and their force, i asked then to be lenient and to just make sure the officers were out of order and that they knew they had done wrong,hardly the actions of someone holding a grudge vindictively,i was also advised to take the matter furthur to the IPCC but declined the offer as i wanted it to be finished with and felt all parties had learned from their lies, i was commended in my absolute professionalism throughout the whole affair by my firearms department,so please before you make sweeping comments on my persona have the decency to firstly have met me face to face and secondly know all the facts of the case before making sweeping inaccurate statements.

I also explained why i had posted again after stating it was my last post.

 

I call it as I see it. I have no particular opinion on either yourself, BASC, your local police force, or anyone else. However, looking at your posts from a dispassionate bystander's viewpoint, I stand by what I said.

I did not make any 'sweeping inaccurate statements', as you put it. I expressed an opinion. I said that you 'seem' to be unable to let it lie, your posts 'appear to be' foaming rants, that you 'do not seem to me' to be hugely temperate.

If expressing an opinion is such a crime to you, then it just lends further weight to me that i may well have been (note, opinion, not sweeping statement) correct in my initial assessment.

 

On that note, however, I will (unlike some) let this thread lie. If you wish to reply again, feel free to do so. I, however, do not feel that he who shouts loudest (or longest) has the most to say.

[David BASC]

I feel very strongly that feedback is very important, and that is why I ask members to contact me if they are not happy, its only by doing so that I can try and take positive action to make things better.

 

And trust me, things will get better - we have a new senior management team with a new Chief Exec and a new Director of Operations, and the thrust of the business to do more for our members, deliver a world class service and improve our membership package..

 

I have no issue at all about people making bold and clear statement on here and to call us / me to task - I would much rather that than people keep quiet!

 

I can honestly say that it is rare we get thing wrong, but I also fully appreciate that on the rare occasion we do how frustrated the member may be. I will always do my best to help, I can do not more.

 

David

[welsh1]

 

I call it as I see it. I have no particular opinion on either yourself, BASC, your local police force, or anyone else. However, looking at your posts from a dispassionate bystander's viewpoint, I stand by what I said.

I did not make any 'sweeping inaccurate statements', as you put it. I expressed an opinion. I said that you 'seem' to be unable to let it lie, your posts 'appear to be' foaming rants, that you 'do not seem to me' to be hugely temperate.

If expressing an opinion is such a crime to you, then it just lends further weight to me that i may well have been (note, opinion, not sweeping statement) correct in my initial assessment.

 

On that note, however, I will (unlike some) let this thread lie. If you wish to reply again, feel free to do so. I, however, do not feel that he who shouts loudest (or longest) has the most to say

It seems for one who has no particular opinion on either party,you have made it clear how you feel about myself,i never stopped you expressing your opinion,it is there for all to see,in fact i quoted it so it will stay there.

 

And no one has shouted on this thread at all.

 

All parties have been free to use pm to converse with me, but no one has used that option, so i will reply directly to posts,i hardly think that is a problem.

[DaveK]

There's always two sides to a story and we are only hearing one of them, albeit hijacking the original topic. I don't have an overwhelming love of BASC but it's horses for courses. If BASC is your bag, then be a member.

 

On a personal note I think David sticks his head above the parapet quite often with his personal opinions and takes a lot of flak. In all honesty David could no doubt confirm that I've done my fair share of BASC bashing in the past but please guys, keep any pokes at the organisation and not personally at David. It's very rare, if at all, that I've seen posts from him toeing the party line and if there's one thing he shouldn't be accused of it's that.

 

PS I'm a member of SACS

[aris]

I don't see any other shooting organisations offering help on forums.

[CharlieT]

I don't see any other shooting organisations offering help on forums.

 

And judging by the constant bashing David gets one can hardly blame them !

[ehb102]

I don't see any other shooting organisations offering help on forums.

 

Don't get me started on the CPSA. Fail. Fail. Fail, and that was nothing as serious as legal advice. BASC are waaaaaaay ahead on point in my word.

[David BASC]

Its true enough that DaveK and I have disagreed on here on a few issues in the past, but ,and I hope he will agree, we have both moved on and respect each others views.

 

I don't mind getting a bit of bashing on here, provided its constructive, as I said earlier, if we get something wrong if I know about it I can try and do something about it.

 

I choose to come on here with my BASC hat on as often as possible, even when I am not at work, I am on leave at the moment for example, as I truly value the feedback I get on forums, and am pleased to try and help when ever I can. Shooting is not just my job, its a big part of my life, its given me a lot and I am happy to try and give as much back as I can.

 

Toe the party line? no not really, I try to be open and honest and call it as I see it, its as simple as that.

 

David

[mikky]

and on that note gentlemen,we should agree to disagree and buy each other a pint

[Dekers]

Can I still shoot

 

YES!

Any advice before in ring firearms officer is that LEGAL or personal advice, Legal:- YES ................. personal:- think carefully.

The police are holding my shotgun certificate and guns due to a road rage incident and I'm awaiting a court date to see if I can have them back in the mean time can I still shoot with friends under there licence using there shotguns on private land with permission from land owner I've not been told by the court or police that I can't go shooting ?? Also it would be for vermin not at a clay ground any help would be great as my firearms officer is away for two weeks on holiday cheers .

[Harnser]

My advice for what its worth ,is dont go near any gun until this matter has been resolved .

 

Harnser.