hoggysreels Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Happen to stumble across an old Webley and Scott .410 bolt action sales linformation leaflet ... "online doc" It read .... at "40" yards, using No6 ... 2.5" cartridges ... you could expect 77 pellets to be within a 30" circle. The other day whilst out shooting l placed a used soft drinks can at 40 paces ... took aim, fired. This resulted in three pellets hitting the can. The three pellets were equidistant apart (~2 1/4" apart), forming a gentle curve in nature. I'm wondering if the results webley obtain .. 77 pellets with a 30" circle were reasonably accurate ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedd-wyn Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) I've read this old ad as well and found it hard to believe. I use fourlong no 6 in my Webley bolt action and have dropped rabbits cleanly at thirty yards with them.I haven't patterned them though, but will have a go this weekend if i get the chance.They are smashing guns! Edited November 27, 2013 by hedd-wyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoot and be safe Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Must be a tight choke. I wouldn't of thought there would be much more than 77 pellets in a 2.5" 410 cartridge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggysreels Posted November 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Full choke .. Not the slighest idea, as to how many pellets in a .410 2.5" cartridge ... just curious to ask if anyone had patterned one and found it to be reasonably accurate or not ! ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Yes, companies said allsorts of rubbish in the past. My 410 gets gappy at 30 yds with 18 grm of number 6 and full choke. Up to 25 yds its deadly and ideal for 10-25 yds Rabbits without making them rattle, also Hare (which surprised me initially). 2 1/2" shells at 40yds in yer dreams Webley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Quick mental sums would say that 77 pellets would be approx 50% at 40yds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggysreels Posted November 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Kent ... would 18g in a .410 cartridge be the 3" cart ? I seem to recall reading "not that l know personally" .. that at distance, the 12.5g ... 2 5"catridge, patterns better than the 18g 3" ... thats me having recalled the artical correctly, lve left room for doubt !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedd-wyn Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimfireboy Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Kent ... would 18g in a .410 cartridge be the 3" cart ? I seem to recall reading "not that l know personally" .. that at distance, the 12.5g ... 2 5"catridge, patterns better than the 18g 3" ... thats me having recalled the artical correctly, lve left room for doubt !! I've found that they do pattern better than 3". I use eley fourlong 7's for best pattern and the pattern fails quickly in a fourten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggysreels Posted November 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Well having gone to such a scientific, indepth caculus and analysis ballistically ... " shooting a soft drinks can ! " then counting the holes ... there being three in total at 40 paces ... lve predicted a rabbit might have five pellets hit it ... thats if the bunny keeps still ... l'm considering publishing my finding ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimfireboy Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Well having gone to such a scientific, indepth caculus and analysis ballistically ... " shooting a soft drinks can ! " then counting the holes ... there being three in total at 40 paces ... lve predicted a rabbit might have five pellets hit it ... thats if the bunny keeps still ... l'm considering publishing my finding ... I've never thought a fourten to be a forty yard gun, to me its a hedgerow gun. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggysreels Posted November 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 I find the .410 to be a difficult gun to use in comparison to my 12 bore .. hence my interest with perservering with it .. The forty yards referrence was regards the original literature quotes by Webley & Scott ... I really want to have success using it for pest control .. Crows/Squirrels/Rabbits etc ... though over the past 12 months lve struggled at ranges far less than forty yards !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 ive had mine since i was 13 and still use it now......30yds is a good shot and is easily doable......40yds is pushing it !.....i use mine like a rifle and close one eye it is very tightly choked...always used 5's or 6's eley furlong...the smell of the paper cartridges in a new opened box was very evocitive...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Ive got some 50+ year old paper cases for a .410. The boxes aren't bad either. Might get an old webly and test them out a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 i did a lot of pattern test with my old 410 and posted them on here about a year and a half ago but don't know how to find my old post's or i would post them up but from what i can remember the 21/2 inch were best i also cut all size cartridge's up to count pellets in each case and 77 in a 30inch circle with a 21/2 cartridge sounds a bit much colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Kent ... would 18g in a .410 cartridge be the 3" cart ? I seem to recall reading "not that l know personally" .. that at distance, the 12.5g ... 2 5"catridge, patterns better than the 18g 3" ... thats me having recalled the artical correctly, lve left room for doubt !! Yep 3" I bought them coz I needed fibre, pattern great but turn to poo past 30yds- I mean 25 is very impressive 30 passable 35 -don't bother. Happily use owt in fibre that pattern a number 6 or 7 well at same, don't consider it a gun for further out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 when i tested mine the 3" were the worst over 25 yards plus colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggysreels Posted November 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Ive mainly used 6's. .. but l do have some 7's .. 5's .. and some 4's. ... and a few old 2" cartridges .. but what shot size, l don't know .. with age the cartridge case has been rubbed clear ... the fact is, l can miss with a variety of shot size ... but thats the fun factor .. cause there's always the next time ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 I've shot most things with the .410 but never pattern tested it,(nor have I tested any of my other shotguns). Did notice a big difference when I moved onto the 3" shells. I would say that 40 yards would be your limit but I'd still expect to drop a pheasant at that distance. It's definitely much more important to put the shot in the right place though. Snap shooting is a lot harder compared to using a 12 but for rough shooting they are great. I liked the express 3" 7's. Badly weighing up another one or a 28 bore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 I've shot most things with the .410 but never pattern tested it,(nor have I tested any of my other shotguns). Did notice a big difference when I moved onto the 3" shells. I would say that 40 yards would be your limit but I'd still expect to drop a pheasant at that distance. It's definitely much more important to put the shot in the right place though. Snap shooting is a lot harder compared to using a 12 but for rough shooting they are great. I liked the express 3" 7's. Badly weighing up another one or a 28 bore. If you actually bothered to put them on paper at 40yds you either 1. wouldn't try again or 2. brush up on your range estimation. I have seen a guy breaking clays with a .410 at silly distant ranges but live birds need more than a couple of pellets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 (edited) Kent I'm going to disagree. 40 yards with a .410 is more than 'do-able', provided you're not shooting the bird up the bum. Just my take on it. Edited December 1, 2013 by wildfowler.250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutron619 Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 Facing area of a coke can is about 16½in² area at rough estimate. 30" circle is 2827in² in diameter. 14g of 2% Antimony #6's gives 136 pellets. Advertised choke is 77 / 136 = 56% (approx.) meaning somewhere in the region of Improved Cylinder to Modified. If it were 12.5g that's 121 pellets or about 63% - somewhere between Modified and Improved Modified. Linearly, 3 pellets through a coke can gives a density of about 3 pellets / 16.5 in² = 0.18181818 pellets per in². Linearly, 77 pellets in the 30" circle gives a density of about 77 pellets / 2827 in² = 0.02723 pellets per in². At that density, one would expect 16.5 in² * 0.02723 pellets per in² = 0.44 pellets to have hit the coke can. Three hits is therefore probably partly to do with increased central pattern density (it's not linear across the pattern) and the tighter choke, but it's still quite lucky to get three so close at that range. See here for a detailed article on the best load for a .410: http://www.cartridgereview.co.uk/pages/articles/410Cartridges.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 Kent I'm going to disagree. 40 yards with a .410 is more than 'do-able', provided you're not shooting the bird up the bum. Just my take on it. Then prove it on paper and measure the range, I have it wont without luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildfowler.250 Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 Then prove it on paper and measure the range, I have it wont without luck I'll be honest, I've never felt the need to prove it on paper because I've never noticed a problem. Luck always helps as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 I'll be honest, I've never felt the need to prove it on paper because I've never noticed a problem. Luck always helps as well Can almost guarantee its due to range estimation, measure it out put up some paper and have your eyes opened Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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