Redgum Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 I remember them, remember we need a soft almost fluid type substance to get true expansion. You posted in a thread were I mentioned cutting straight through 3" of Cedar and 5/8" fence panels clean at 50yds when testing my home range (those same SK LR slugs expand normally within a rabbit cavity) but busted straight through without even tumbling on the hard stuff Its called hydrostatics, a soft nose or ballistic tip needs fluid to work correctly and do what its designed to do. Fire a hmr bullet at a piece of 1/4 steel plate and then at a bottle of water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Its called hydrostatics, a soft nose or ballistic tip needs fluid to work correctly and do what its designed to do. Fire a hmr bullet at a piece of 1/4 steel plate and then at a bottle of water. Yeah, I was avoiding the jargon though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 OK so I was bored, but please don't make me find this again... http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/66502-22-penetration-tests/?hl=experiment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 OK so I was bored, but please don't make me find this again... http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/66502-22-penetration-tests/?hl=experiment how did you find it Dunkield i tried looking for one of my post were i pattern tested my 410 2 years ago but it would not let me look that far back colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Might be special powers Colin ;-) I think there is a limit on searches but looking for that took me back to posts from 2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 This? http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/196634-410-pattern-test-part-2/?fromsearch=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Or this http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/195765-pattern-test-on-shortened-410-barrel/?fromsearch=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Often I have distances less then 30m with a bipod etc. Not good enough to have 100% headshots, Not meaning to be overly harsh but these two statements in the same sentence are the problem. it could be you, it could be your rifle or it could be your ammo or it could be a combination if you can't get 3-5 shots on a 10p piece at 30 yds off a solid rest then you need to fix that. find some ammo that works, find a scope that is clearer, if it is not hardware then practice practice and practice in every possible shooting position until you can hit that 10p piece at 60yds if you struggle to hit that 10p then head shots are out but so is accurate chest shooting.... to put this into context I shoot all my rabbits off twin or quad sticks standing. it helps avoid the fence twang, had plenty of those! I shoot anything inside 100yds or so. EVERYTHING is head shot, might hit a couple of the upright ones in the neck or the upper shoulder but I make sure that the drop is into the body, not side on into fresh air. you clip a rabbit in the head and it has to be very slight to be anything other than a kill. I have had a couple of nasty ones where an eye is blown out but they are otherwise unconscious but it is very rare compared to the number of runners on chest shot through and through. I was tempted to say get a 12ft/lb air rifle and get in close but my concern there is it requires an even greater component of accuracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Or this http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/195765-pattern-test-on-shortened-410-barrel/?fromsearch=1 they are the ones i was after thanks i was wanting to put them on a post another member started a month or so ago but couldn't go back that far,you must have Jedi powers not bad for a storm trooper thanks Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 It seems the mobile version of the forum has a better search facility than the full. That and '2 years ago' curve ball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 I find it easier to search using Google, for example, to search for "beretta", I'd search for "beretta site:pigeonwatch.co.uk" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Not meaning to be overly harsh but these two statements in the same sentence are the problem. it could be you, it could be your rifle or it could be your ammo or it could be a combination if you can't get 3-5 shots on a 10p piece at 30 yds off a solid rest then you need to fix that. find some ammo that works, find a scope that is clearer, if it is not hardware then practice practice and practice in every possible shooting position until you can hit that 10p piece at 60yds if you struggle to hit that 10p then head shots are out but so is accurate chest shooting.... to put this into context I shoot all my rabbits off twin or quad sticks standing. it helps avoid the fence twang, had plenty of those! I shoot anything inside 100yds or so. EVERYTHING is head shot, might hit a couple of the upright ones in the neck or the upper shoulder but I make sure that the drop is into the body, not side on into fresh air. you clip a rabbit in the head and it has to be very slight to be anything other than a kill. I have had a couple of nasty ones where an eye is blown out but they are otherwise unconscious but it is very rare compared to the number of runners on chest shot through and through. I was tempted to say get a 12ft/lb air rifle and get in close but my concern there is it requires an even greater component of accuracy Have a look see were the OP is based, 10 pence might not mean a lot "LOL" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Am I being really stupid here? You have a maximum range of 50m, you're near a campsite and there are questions about the backdrop being asked. Surely this is a tailor made permission for an air rifle? I know the laws are slightly different in Germany, but if I had that permission, it'd be straight down there with an air rifle on ticket. At that range, in this country you'd happily get away with a 12ft/lb gun. what am I missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Whilst it says from Germany, the site has not been identified (did I miss it somewhere?), many people state all sorts of countries as from, doesn't mean they are actually there. Seems to me there is some language issue here just the same, and frankly there is an ability/equipment issue here, on the information available, which seems to be coming to the fore, regardless of the country he may be in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Whilst it says from Germany, the site has not been identified (did I miss it somewhere?), many people state all sorts of countries as from, doesn't mean they are actually there. Seems to me there is some language issue here just the same, and frankly there is an ability/equipment issue here, on the information available, which seems to be coming to the fore, regardless of the country he may be in! True! and True... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Is it legal to hunt with an air gun in Bavaria? It isn't in some countries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Have a look see were the OP is based, 10 pence might not mean a lot "LOL" sure they have google in Germany anyway, am sure he gets the point 10p = < 3cm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr smith Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Is it legal to hunt with an air gun in Bavaria? It isn't in some countries Something in the back of my mind tells me the six ft/lbs is the max in Germany. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traztaz Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Not legal to hunt with an air rifle here, no matter what power, legal non FAC here is 7 foot pounds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 What exactly does is say on the rws ammo box that your using ? Or a photo of the box maybe ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 Not legal to hunt with an air rifle here, no matter what power, legal non FAC here is 7 foot pounds Aha thanks for that Traztaz. That is ridiculously ironic. Some of the best hunting air rifles in the world are made by a German company in Germany, and you can't even hunt with them?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 Aha thanks for that Traztaz. That is ridiculously ironic. Some of the best hunting air rifles in the world are made by a German company in Germany, and you can't even hunt with them?!There are lot of places in the world that have even higher energy limits than the UK and you cant use them to hunt their either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Albert Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 It sounds to me that you need to do a lot of practise before you go shooting live prey. Even if it is defined as vermin, we still need to give our prey respect and ensure a clean kill. Before you go for live prey you should be able to hit Polo mints at 50 yds with a rimfire and 35 yds with an air rifle. I suspect you are using target ammo rather than expanding ammo (small exit and entry hole). Get some expanding ammo (Wini subs are good) and try them. Make sure your rifle likes them first though. Check the grouping with a number of different makes till you find the one that suits your rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfgpm Posted December 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2013 Hi, thank you for your posts. I am from Germany and here it is forbidden to shoot game with air rifles. No matter what kind and size. I ordered Winchester and waiting for them know. Really? A sub 12ftlb air rifle will bury pellets into wood at 45 metres with 8ftlbs of energy at that distance. A 22 sub has 98ftlbs at that distance, 12x more And yet you say the bullets are going straight through the rabbits. I'm sorry to say this, but if you have rabbits making it 300 yards before dying, I think it may be down to shot placement. In two cases the bullet just went through the rabbit (chest) and hit a steel fence in the background. The rabbits run for about 50-70m. The bullets from the test shots on the target with lumber-core plywood base could be pealed out of the surface with a key. ...If your not on a wind-up mission here get help locally before an accident happens No one is shooting .22lfb in our region. And shooting is not the point. With the normal .22lfb HV the circular error probable and hits are fine. Can you use a silencer on air rifles over there? If so you've got the perfect tool for the job. No, not allowed. Not meaning to be overly harsh but these two statements in the same sentence are the problem. it could be you, it could be your rifle or it could be your ammo or it could be a combination if you can't get 3-5 shots on a 10p piece at 30 yds off a solid rest then you need to fix that. find some ammo that works, find a scope that is clearer, if it is not hardware then practice practice and practice in every possible shooting position until you can hit that 10p piece at 60yds if you struggle to hit that 10p then head shots are out but so is accurate chest shooting.... to put this into context I shoot all my rabbits off twin or quad sticks standing. it helps avoid the fence twang, had plenty of those! I shoot anything inside 100yds or so. EVERYTHING is head shot, might hit a couple of the upright ones in the neck or the upper shoulder but I make sure that the drop is into the body, not side on into fresh air. you clip a rabbit in the head and it has to be very slight to be anything other than a kill. I have had a couple of nasty ones where an eye is blown out but they are otherwise unconscious but it is very rare compared to the number of runners on chest shot through and through. In those cases I explained above I shot from a standing position with a bipod, the bullet hit the rabbit in the chest perfectly (was examind afterwards) went through it and what was new to me the bullet must have bounced off the lawn to cause the hit in the fence. I wouldn't have wondered if I would have shot from a lying position. But I was standing and the angle was not to small. What exactly does is say on the rws ammo box that your using ?Or a photo of the box maybe ? http://www.hansa-jagd.de/jagd/741/munition.php It sounds to me that you need to do a lot of practise before you go shooting live prey. Even if it is defined as vermin, we still need to give our prey respect and ensure a clean kill. Before you go for live prey you should be able to hit Polo mints at 50 yds with a rimfire and 35 yds with an air rifle. I suspect you are using target ammo rather than expanding ammo (small exit and entry hole). Get some expanding ammo (Wini subs are good) and try them. Make sure your rifle likes them first though. Check the grouping with a number of different makes till you find the one that suits your rifle. I shoot prey since 2001 from hares up to wild boars with no problem. Also shot some rabbits with the normal .22lfb HV. Also no problem. The problem in that night came up by using the rws sub. That was the reason why I asked for a good ammo recommendation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 22, 2013 Report Share Posted December 22, 2013 You said No one is shooting .22lfb in our region. And shooting is not the point. With the normal .22lfb HV the circular error probable and hits are fine. I cannot understand that, what I mean is if your bullet passes through your target then it should always bury itself in a safe zone like a bank of soft earth. If you don't take this into account someone, something is going to catch an unintended bullet sooner or later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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