BASC logo removed

[Big Mat]

I suspect his thanks will be along the lines of another misinformed accusation

[-Mongrel-]

I am here to do all I can to help.

 

David

 

Although the amount of flak you are subjected to at times beggars belief! Much kudos to you for sticking at it!

[Zapp]

Right, I'm back from tesco with a load of tinfoil for hat making.. What did I miss?

 

 

Oh. Glad I kept the receipt.

[gunsmoke]

Dear All,

 

I have discussed all of this in detail with senior colleagues this morning. I have expressed your concerns over the dropping of the BASC logo, and you will see its back there now. There was, and the conspiracy theorists will love this, simply a bit of a breakdown in communication at this end.

 

Firstly, may I reassure you all that shootings interests are very well represented on the LAG, Barney White Spunner is the shooting rep on the group and keeps in very close contact with us and the other shooting organisations.

 

BASC were active on the sub groups and the work of these groups has finished but BASC still provide much of the admin function as already confirmed.

 

Best wishes to all

 

David

 

Even though they have put the logo back on the web site, BASC still have no representation on the LAG. Why should they rely on another organisation {the Countryside Alliance} to do their work?

 

How can Barney White Spunner of the Countryside Alliance be in contact with other shooting organisations if the rules of the LAG committee will not allow this?

I’ve contacted members of the LAG committee, although I’m a committee member of a shooting organisation and a member of more than one of the organisations represented on the LAG, I was told that they can’t talk about its work under the LAG rules.

 

Putting the logo back on the web site, its like, what’s the words I’m looks for, ho yes, deck chairs and Titanic. The reason for taking it off was because BASC had no active role or representation on the LAG, why was it put back on? It means very little has BASC have still no representation on the main LAG committee.

 

Therefore the organisation that promotes itself as ‘the voice of shooting’ has no voice.

[David BASC]

My dear Gunsmoke, you seem to really haven no idea at all about how this group operates do you, and just come back on here to have yet another go at BASC. You are getting a bit boring and predicable in my view and seem to have absolutely nothing better to do…

 

 

Of course Barney can talk to other shooting organisation leaders about the issues of lead shot, and so on, and represent the thoughts and views of the shooting organisations on the group, that’s been the CA’s representative’s role from day 1, perhaps you were not aware of this! Maybe he chooses not to bother talking to you....

 

Oh and had you bothered to look at the minutes from the last LAG meeting in October ths year, you will see BASC was represented by our Director of Resarch.

Edited December 17, 2013 by David BASC

[shaun4860]

Right, I'm back from tesco with a load of tinfoil for hat making.. What did I miss?

 

 

Oh. Glad I kept the receipt.

I hope you didnt take it back....

 

Its off again.....

 

[sako751sg]

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• Members
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• Joined 23-August 05

• From:Cheshire

Posted 24 September 2013 - 12:56 PM

To be honest any web site could go down, its annoying when it does and the BASC web had a few wobbles last year, we have now switched to a better server and so far so good (hope I don't speak too soon!)

 

Mungler is just having a bit of a giggle, lets not get too worked up about it I am sure he means no harm. If we cant have a bit of banter between ourselves it will be a sad day.

 

Hats off to Vulpicide for picking up on this and having a chat with Ian and getting their site up and running, I know Ian is a busy man and may not have spotted the problem.

 

Like it or not, many people, not just members, will judge an association by its web site, I have no doubt Lister that you are happy with SACS, if they deliver all you want and need then that's cool, and I understand that for you and I dare say many other members the SACS web site is not important to you, but do you not think that its better to have a web site than not?

 

David

 

 

Now now David,im sure he means no harm so dont lets get worked up by it.

[David BASC]

Thanks for putting up a selection of my posts about BASC and SACS web sites, not sure what this has to do with lead / LAG?

[sako751sg]

Thanks for putting up a selection of my posts about BASC and SACS web sites, not sure what this has to do with lead / LAG?

 

Not a selection David,just the one.

If you read the bolded bit you will see the relevance.Its only a forum with lots of banter as you said so dont take things to heart.Its all good clean fun.

[David BASC]

OK, thank you

[_martin_]

 

Why should they rely on another organisation {the Countryside Alliance} to do their work?

 

They no doubt are there representing the interest of their members.

 

Thanks Countryside Alliance, keep up the good work.

 

 

 

[David BASC]

Its great to have Barney on board, in my view, he is a good operator. Remember, Barney is there not just to represent the members of the CA, but ALL shooters interests, that's why John Swift asked the CA to put forward someone for this role when the LAG was being set up.

 

David

[poontang]

Its great to have Barney on board, in my view, he is a good operator. Remember, Barney is there not just to represent the members of the CA, but ALL shooters interests, that's why John Swift asked the CA to put forward someone for this role when the LAG was being set up.

 

David

 

David,

 

Are you saying that at no point has BASC had any representation on the group, and that the CA have been representing shooters throughout the whole sorry process?

 

Surely not?

[David BASC]

Dear Poontang,

 

What a strange question / statement from your good self...As you very well know and as anyone can see, BASC's contribution and representation on the LAG is well documented in the LAG minutes.

 

Shooting has been very well represented on the LAG from a range of organisations and their representatives, this has, as it should be, been a team effort.

 

David

[Graham M]

"We must be seen to be doing the right thing" John Swift.

 

 

 

Remember that David?

 

I posted it a couple of years, or so, ago from an article in one of the shooting magazines, in which Mr Swift was a pains to tell us how much we should be looking to switch over to non-toxic shot as a way of demonstrating how much we should be showing how responsible we are.

 

I argued very strongly at the time by asking exactly what "Doing the right thing" meant, and was shot down for even suggesting that BASC was nudging us towards non-toxic shot by making it appear that only irresponsible shooters would want to carry on using lead in the face of "Evidence" that lead poisoning was causing unnecessary deaths in wildfowl.

 

That was all about lead shot..........and now we have the possibility that it will extend to rifle ammunition.

 

Sorry David, but I can see nothing but the inevitability of it all, and you/BASC can argue all you wish, but I will never believe that this was fought against with any REAL degree of conviction.

I firmly believe that this has always been on the cards and that you /BASC have been trying to limit the damage as much as possible, whilst knowing you will not be able to stop it from happening.

 

And when we are finally told that ALL ammunition will have to be non-lead..................we will be told that it was our own fault for not complying fully with the law as it stood. Either way BASC won't take any blame because they will claim to have fought on our behalf...........even though it was mooted way back in that article that John Swift (BASC) was already looking for us to make those changes voluntarily, or in other words.......... "We must be seen to be doing the right thing".

 

And no David, I'm not going to enter into a long drawn-out argument, or be accused of BASC-bashing, so I won't respond to any other posts. I just feels as though we were part of a political agenda, that was conceived over two years ago, to condition us into accepting our fate.

G.M.

[David BASC]

Neither John Swift in his days as Ch. Exec, or BASC have ever said, or had a policy to move away from lead shot en block. That is a matter of fact.

 

I would agree that where the law requires it, non-lead shot must be used, and we must be seen to do the right thing, which was exactly what JAS was saying in context, no one can argue against that surely?

 

BASC’s history of defending lead shot is well documented, for example it was BASC and BASC alone that fort off any changes in law for many years and when the political decision to change the law was made it was BASC that delayed the implementation of the law by 9 years to allow cartridge manufacturers more time to come up with alternatives. Since then we have fought of further calls for greater restrictions.

 

I am pleased to say other organisations seem to have woken up to the lead issue at long last and we are all working together with a common agenda.

 

I agree that noncompliance with the law is a very real threat, and sadly an ignorant and stupid few could well muck it up for all of us, doubtless though, like you intimate, many will want to blame BASC for this!

 

Best wishes

David

[kent]

I cannot agree more than with the last comment David made above. If you are one of these people it is you I shall blame

[Kes]

I cannot agree more than with the last comment David made above. If you are one of these people it is you I shall blame

That, forgive me, is a totally pointless comment - it will be too late and you wont know who individually to blame.

Stick to ensuring you and your shooting friends/acquaintances all comply with the current and promote the use of NTS where its a legal requirement and we might then get to a situation the scots have enjoyed.

I would love a reference to read who and how the 'English(and Welsh) Law came about and who promoted it.

[DaveK]

I've done my share of whingeing about BASC in the past but some of what I've just read is getting a tad personal against David, who does his best to say it as it is in my opinion. So a picture was taken off a website? Whoopee Doo. 5 pages. if you want a BASC logo PM me and I'll send you one.

 

I may not be a member any more but even I can see the good work that David and his colleagues are doing.

 

just my 2 pennorth.

 

Zapp, keep the tinfoil it's bound to come in useful sooner or later.

[Gordon R]

DaveK - nice comments. :good:

[CharlieT]

DaveK

 

Whilst I do not in any way condone rude and unjustified criticism of BASC, I fail to understand how you can not appreciate how important a visual BASC presence on the LAG website is and even more important, that they are physically "sitting at the table".

 

When BASC is usually so media savvy, it is not surprising that some have, quite rightly, posed the question as to why the logo was removed and what current input BASC now have on the future of lead shot.

[mudpatten]

Kes, In answer to your question " I would love a reference to who and how the English and Welsh Law came about and who promoted it."

 

Simply have a read of Hansard, the daily proceedings of Parliament (and it`s Welsh equivalent). As we keep saying, this legislation was promoted by Parliament, and NOT BASC.

[David BASC]

_{The logo issue was a cock up not conspiracy - BASC's activity on the LAG is clearly documented on the minutes of the meetings we have attended.}

 

_David

[poontang]

_{The logo issue was a cock up not conspiracy - BASC's activity on the LAG is clearly documented on the minutes of the meetings we have attended.}

 

_David

 

David,

 

Interesting you mention the meetings BASC have attended. as looking at the list of attendees for each of the 8 meetings BASC only seem to have had someone 'round the table' on one occasion (John Harradine at the 8th meeting). Obviously John Swift as chairman has been in attendance but as has been made quite clear he has remained totally impartial, and unable to contribute to proceedings.

 

It comes as no shock to me that WWT and RSPB have had delegates attend all 8 meetings.

 

You stated earlier that... '

Shooting has been very well represented on the LAG from a range of organisations and their representatives, this has, as it should be, been a team effort'.

 

Whilst I wouldn't disagree that shooting has been fairly well represented on the LAG and a 'team effort' approach seems to have been adopted, I do find it strange that BASC, as the largest shooting organisation in the UK, haven't had a participating presence during the 'round the table' proceedings.

[David BASC]

The chairman selected the representatives for the main LAG group, I am afraid I cannot throw any light on his selection, over and above the points he made at the first meeting.

 

David

Edited December 18, 2013 by David BASC