flynny Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Ey up lads and lasses, I am in the middle of sorting out 5 stalks for roe in Scotland in April, I have a browning a bolt in 223 and need some advice on a heavy round for them, the twist rate in the barrell is 1 in 9 ( so I've been told), barrel length is 20" Any recommendations/ advice is welcome, Atb Flynny Edited January 10, 2014 by flynny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aister Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 I may be wrong but I doubt it's 1 in 9, I am sure mine is 1 in 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Isnt there a minimum striking energy for Roe, even in Scotland. As you know heavier bullets perform better with lower (higher?) twist rates, (1 in 9, rather than 1 in 12), best to consult your ballistic charts for striking energy and go to the highest bullet weight that will give you that at a given range where you are stalking. I.E. if its 100 yds and 1 in 12 causes toppling in a 60 grain bullet you may bet away with 50 grains. My Remington likes 50 grain blitzkings with 25.6 grains of N130 powder but I've never checked the striking energy, since its enough for foxes. Maybe best to borrow an estate .243 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynny Posted January 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Thanks for the replies guys, the guy I'm going with is sorting it out now, he is fine with me using the 223 as its perfectly legal on roe in Scotland, kes I'm the same as you I only ever shoot foxes, I just think it would be nice to use my own rifle, I'm not afraid to say that deer stalking is a whole new ball game to me, Time to do some research myself though, on the quarry I'm after and the right ammo to do the job humanely ( thanks aister I will double check the twist rate at the gunsmiths tomorrow) Thanks again Flynny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scobydog Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Hi Flynny, rules are minimum 50 grain bullet,2450 minimum velocity speed and a minimum muzzle energy of 1000ft lb. Hope this helps, personally use the 243 but that is my personal opinion, if your happy to use the 223 then go for it mate. Enjoy the stalks Edited January 10, 2014 by scobydog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 55g sp in .223 is plenty for Roe. It's accuracy that kills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scobydog Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Hi Fisher, what sort of ranges are these rounds good to. S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 I would go up 100 yds, but mostly less than 60yds. The nature of woodland. Often less than 30yds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scobydog Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Cheers, quite interesting ranges those, and as you say accuracy is what counts. S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 I hope they change the law and add Roe for. 22cf for England and Wales. Perfectly adequate for careful shooters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynny Posted January 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Hi Flynny, rules are minimum 50 grain bullet,2450 minimum velocity speed and a minimum muzzle energy of 1000ft lb. Hope this helps, personally use the 243 but that is my personal opinion, if your happy to use the 223 then go for it mate. Enjoy the stalks I would go up 100 yds, but mostly less than 60yds. The nature of woodland. Often less than 30yds. Much appreciated thanks scoby dog and fisheruk, I'm doing woodland and hill, Maybe it's a good excuse to change the 223 to a 243, 1 tool to do fox and deer,( I have pondered over chopping the 223 in for a 243 for many years) I'll ask the boss if there is any spare cash in the coffers, and get a variation sent in before April , Again many thanks for the replies, PW at its best, Flynny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 I hope they change the law and add Roe for. 22cf for England and Wales. Perfectly adequate for careful shooters. When I was in Scotland I had a .270 for my estate rifle but I mainly used my .222 for Roe. Most of my deer was in woodland and to be fair most shots would be taken at quite short ranges (40 - 80 yards) and it was more than enough for the job. Nice and quiet, no recoil to speak of and you can see your target through the scope right through your shot. As with anything, it's the person firing the rifle that makes the shot good or bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) The .223 is fine for Roe. I don't often have reason to use mine in Scotland but don't stress too much about the bullet type/weight, just stay within the law. If you are new to deer then check out deer anatomy, and know your ammo performance. I have taken them with several different ammo types, probably the worst ammo I used was Wolf .223 55g HP, but it accounted for my longest Roe in Scotland, 229yards ranged. Put it in the right place and they fall down! EDIT I would not be considering a .22 cf for Small deer if the range went out any much more than above! Edited January 11, 2014 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 The Sako gamehead was very popular sa while back. Nosler partition might be my first choice ( though I suspect they might be one and the same) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynny Posted January 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 The .223 is fine for Roe. I don't often have reason to use mine in Scotland but don't stress too much about the bullet type/weight, just stay within the law. If you are new to deer then check out deer anatomy, and know your ammo performance. I have taken them with several different ammo types, probably the worst ammo I used was Wolf .223 55g HP, but it accounted for my longest Roe in Scotland, 229yards ranged. Put it in the right place and they fall down! EDIT I would not be considering a .22 cf for Small deer if the range went out any much more than above! The Sako gamehead was very popular sa while back. Nosler partition might be my first choice ( though I suspect they might be one and the same) Thanks deckers excellent info, thank you also Kent, I know there is the power there in the 223, and it does need to hit the vitals I can drop a fox at 200 YDS all day long, I just want to make sure I have the right ammo to do the job humanely. It's all new to me so that's why I'm asking the boys in the know. I want to do it right, Thanks lads, keep the info coming please , Atb Flynny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynny Posted January 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Ps it's all booked and paid for now, Roll on April, (still might put a variation in for a 243 it's a good excuse to the wife ha ha) Time to knuckle down on the reading up on roe, Atb Flynny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rioulike Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Much appreciated thanks scoby dog and fisheruk, I'm doing woodland and hill, Maybe it's a good excuse to change the 223 to a 243, 1 tool to do fox and deer,( I have pondered over chopping the 223 in for a 243 for many years) I'll ask the boss if there is any spare cash in the coffers, and get a variation sent in before April , Again many thanks for the replies, PW at its best, Flynny done this 4years ago,never looked back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shotgun sam Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Flynny, Is your fac conditioned for roe? I use my tikka t3 in 223 for roe using 25 grains of vit n140 with either nobler ballistic tips or Sierra soft point both being 55 grains. So far every one I have shot has dropped on the spot hopefully that record will continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynny Posted January 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Flynny, Is your fac conditioned for roe? I use my tikka t3 in 223 for roe using 25 grains of vit n140 with either nobler ballistic tips or Sierra soft point both being 55 grains. So far every one I have shot has dropped on the spot hopefully that record will continue. AOLQ and open ticket mate, thanks for the bullet advice much appreciated Atb Flynny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aister Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Just a thought, if you are booked to go in April stick with the 223 if you are used to the gun and can shoot it with confidence because confidence in your gun, ammo etc is IMO very important. Go for the 243 for future trips but stick with the 223 for the April one. Again it's just a thought, others might disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynny Posted January 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Just a thought, if you are booked to go in April stick with the 223 if you are used to the gun and can shoot it with confidence because confidence in your gun, ammo etc is IMO very important. Go for the 243 for future trips but stick with the 223 for the April one. Again it's just a thought, others might disagree. My thinking also mate, I shoot well with the 223 as I'm well used to it, it does give me a rather good excuse to purchase a 243 though ha ha and use it for both deer and fox.I have been thinking of upping calibre for a while but always put it on the back burner so to speak, I will be stalking with the 223, but a variation is going in for a 243 ASAP, I'm going to phone my flo tomorrow for a chat, Thanks aister, Atb Flynny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 I use my .222 as my rifle of choice for roe (BRNO Fox Md2) I use 60gr Hornady soft points and they stabilise just fine in the factory 1:14 so long as you don't push them too fast. (they are still clocking 2900-3000fps over 20.8gr N133) Its the perfect round IMO, very light carcase damage outside of the wound channel with no bruising. drops them on the spot get a decent make of factory like Sako or Norma with a decent soft point and you will be right don't listen to anyone who says its not enough gun or you should use the estate rifle....they probably have little experience of using .22CF on roe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casts_by_fly Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 If you really do have a 9 twist, then you should be good up above 65 grains (the 69 grain matchking is what savage recommends for accuracy in their 9 twist barrels). If i were doing it myself, i would be looking at the 65 gr gameking or the 60 gr partition, both driven hard. They both get good reviews by the whitetail guys shooting them at smaller southern deer which are just a littlebigger than a roe. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 I hope they change the law and add Roe for. 22cf for England and Wales. Perfectly adequate for careful shooters. That's the problem there's a lot of " careful " shooters who can't hit a cow with a brick. First and most important is a humane kill. I don't say that .22 cf is not enough but a bigger bullet gives more room for error. Just my opinion. I've shot roe in Scotland with a .22-250 but it's not my first choice now. If I was you I'd borrow the estate rifle till I got comfortable with what I was doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 The other thing. If they allowed .22 cf on roe. Some forces would use it as an excuse not to grant any thing bigger:( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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