kiffy Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 weather permitting i off out on the clays this morning and my muzzle loader will be coing along for a play two quesations for you guys.. whats the set trigger for? and is there a website that shows the mix of powder.shot to use for different loads? i have a home made measure at the moment but thought id experiment with a smaller load for use on clays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 That gun of yours is what the Americans call a smooth rifle. A rifle stocked and sighted smoothbore. The set trigger has been carried over from the rifle version....it would probably shoot a patched ball a treat! Equal measures of shot and powder volume wise is a standard max ratio of powder to shot. More powder tends to spread the shot bad even making doughnut patterns(good for close rabbits and woodcock or walked up pheasant or....). I usually load a little less powder volume wise than shot so in a .54 I would be trying 7/8th oz(24gram) but with a measure set for 3/4oz (21gram) of shot for the powder (guess it). 1oz loads should be doable with a shade less powder out that gun. That's around 70grns of black in a equal volume measure, that gun in rifle form can probably be loaded above 100grns with a patched ball. Get blastin' U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted March 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 If you use a ball the key to accuracy is a good stout charge. Your looking at over 100 grains, and the accuracy from a smooth gun can be surprising. I used it on clays and used a 50:50 shot to powder at 70 grains of BP. You dont need to swing through half as much as you think.. i always exaggerate the lead on moving targets and if you have a good load its really not necessary to start with i was missing in front a lot. Update coming tomorrow with chequering and hopefully a couple of shots with it tomorrow, should be fun. James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted March 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Did not get out with it today. Managed to finish up the chequering. I am filing lines into the horn but plate now and after that will consider it finished i think. Handles so nicely, and shoots unbelievably for something so old. I promise i will get out with it soon and get it on video, as well as some pictures. All the best. After getting the pattern all deapened. After finishing up. I left no boarder between the edge of the for end and the barrels as on similar guns i have seen this seems to be the style. I went for full wrap around as apposed to panels which would have looked wrong on this gun, i wont pretend the wrap around is seamlessly done but its not a bad job either. Period correct would probably require flat top chequering. Which if this was a wall hanger i would have probably done. Since its going to be used i prefer the look and feel of nice sharp chequering and it feels ace to handle now so i am happy with what i have done. James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Good work looks good you'll always see more faults in your chequering than anyone else!!! If you want to make it flat top chequering go and shoot it loads;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Hi Brill mate I bet your well pleased with it how cool is it to shoot with a gun you made the wood work for yourself Anyway just a thought the guns over a. Hundred years old and the wood that was on it took a hundred years to grow and ten to season so I just wonder who planted the tree and what it had seen in its time just a crazy thought All the best and well done Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Poon Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 That looks pretty good to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted March 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Old guns/ history is way more cool than anything any modern company can produce. Sure some old guns get a bit rickety, but i love just making them into something to be proud of, your are only preserving the enjoyment and the history for someone else. Since Underdog showed me a paper cartridge he uses, i have had cogs whirring in my brain. Anyway the result has been self contained cartridges so much as they can be for a muzzle loader. I turned a wooden dowel the same diameter as the bore at the muzzle, and made paper cartridges by rolling and glueing paper around the mandrel, then gluing one end shut. First i pour in one measure of shot, wadding, then one measure of powder on top of that. I then tie the end shut with some string. In the field you grab a cartridge, pull the string which opens the top of the cartridge, putting the whole cartridge open end first down the barrel you can load a load with one smart ram. I have been using these cartridge loads a little bit and they are really handy for when the shooting get a bit rapid, ( think running squirrels ) I only take a couple out with me but if i had the opportunity to take the muzzle loader on a pheasant shoot, something like these cartridges would come in handy.. ( i have idea's of trying to put on a pigeon watch muzzle loaders shoot one day in the season if i could do it cheap enough ). On firing the paper case is shattered and the pressure combined with wadding paper and shot seals the bore. Here is some pictures of the cartridges.. might pattern it out tomorrow, but more likely i will take it to the woods and just enjoy it. I don't think the cartridges would store particularly well for longer periods of time, as the wadding is lubed, and it might contaminate the powder that being said i have left them loaded and use them for up to a week before. Which reminds me i still need to make my box and apply for the ticket.. i am dreadfull! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiffy Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 apart from them looking like tampons thats a brilliant idea! and get your bloody box built! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted March 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Ah man they do as well! I'll get the box built soon i really mean it this time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted March 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Insomnia has been killing me the last few days, last night i gave up on sleeping which gave me an early start on the pigeons. I live right next to a huge rookery which i desperately want shooting on, and in due time should get, but will be limited to airguns, anyway i was greeted by this outside my back door. I put together a bag of shell decoys, picked up the muzzle loader and the cartridges i rolled up the other night and set off. I set up where for the last week pigeons have been nailing some rape, and sat in a hedge bottom. The pigeons were still in the roost and it was freezing so they are not readily leaving. I took a walk to warm up which gave me the first and only shot of the day, i crow about 30 yards up just chugging along nicely came over me with a steady maintained swing everything came through with a click and a bang. The crow folded with an absolutely text book shot, dropped through the cold wind and landed without a wing twitch. Really pleased with it to be honest. I have previously shot a couple of pigeons out of the tree's and a couple of squirrels but until today wing shooting had not been working to well for me. I made a little video of me freezing my **** off in a hedge bottom for you guys, so i will get that up as soon as i get round to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 That's a great photo glad it's all working for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Excellent work James, very very impressed here that's for sure. Looks like your hooked...I swear they add something to that powder! That crow is worth ten from a suppository gun U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted March 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 I was hooked when i touched the trigger off at the MLAGB stand at my first game fair probably 7 years ago, and ever since i got my SGC i have been looking into BP firearms. Getting the Hawken was a good learning curve but I'm all about history and originals is what i really enjoy. So yeh i was well pleased, though it was absolutely freezing cold. Its amazing to think what this gun might have dropped, where it might have been, what it might have done, why was the original stock broken? you will just never know. In my ownership it has had, two squirrels, four pigeons, a rabbit, and a hare, then the crow today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted March 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza9t9 Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Fine looking gun sir and I bet a lot of fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Do you have any concerns about pieces of your paper cartridges sitting in the barrel smouldering whilst you load the next one ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Do you have any concerns about pieces of your paper cartridges sitting in the barrel smouldering whilst you load the next one ? I think the idea is to use the paper as a container to hold a charge, so I'd imagine it'd be undo the end, tip powder in, squeeze wad in rod down, tip shot in possibly use wrapper over shot, otherwise yeah you'd think bits of smouldering paper would be common! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Well done on a really grand job, and one of the best threads this year so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted March 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 No the idea of cartridges was speed... think roost shooting. The cartridges are made to a fairly tight tolerance to the bore, the loading procedure is: 1 Pull the string to open the bottom exposing the powder. 2 Pour the powder down the barrel. The cylinder left now consists of a bit of paper excess where the powder was, a wad, shot, and a closed end. 3 Place the whole cartridge into the barrel and ram firmly down. 4 Place a cap on the nipple. 5 Draw to full cock. The gun is now ready to be fired. So far i have had 100 percent success rate with ignition using these cartridges having fired about 20. It would a concern to make cartridges out of combustible paper, or a cartridge of flimsy paper, where you rammed the whole charge, shot, wad and powder at once as as soon as that kind of cartridge touched an ember your hand would be an inch away from the muzzle of a firing gun. The design of a tearing the bottom of the cartridge was intentional, this way you have exactly the same risks as loading the conventional way. I will take a sequence of pictures of the loading process now as i am just about to clean it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted March 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 How can you be sure the shot doesn't leave the barrel and stay as one lump encased in paper and backed by the wad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 How can you be sure the shot doesn't leave the barrel and stay as one lump encased in paper and backed by the wad? Testing Nice one DW Although I have not made complete cartridges in unit, my powder or shot separate's just have a folded end. This is torn off by my teeth.....would that be easier to produce than the string tying method? Also some dip the end of their cart's in a bees wax/tallow mix melted. Keeps the foul soft and the bores protected. U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted March 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 My first concern was that it would be flying as a single slug, that being said if rammed too hard when making the cartridges when you add wadding you can split them so i am certain they rip as they are rammed down the barrel. Further more i have patterned out the load on card board, seems to behave similarly at 30 yards as my over under 12 bore, except slightly less shot and a bit more open pattern. A folded end would be easier than tying but i would worry about the powder spilling in my pocket, when tying you just twist the excess tie a shoe lace knot and trim. I have thought about the bees wax, i took it ferreting yesterday and put about 15 shots through it and the fouling was not a problem, however when i swap to real BP this may be needed. James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Those pritt stick glue things hold the fold matey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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